Jared Loughner's defense

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by StalkingGoogle
if any shooting actually even took place.

...you could make a good living as a defense attorney, if you're not already doing so...

I guess that depends on your definitions of "good living" and "defense attorney".

reply to post by StalkingGoogle


A person can be described as fleeing just by turning and taking a step or two. Or even stepping backward while facing the scene.

So, that's how he could be in two places. The two places may have been just a few feet apart.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Could you provide some links to this scenario you are talking about? Like witnesses seeing him in line, etc.... I would like to read up on that!

I started this thread as a sort of clearing house to address evidence against Loughner, not to rehash all the evidence that does not suggest his guilt. If you wish to present evidence that suggests Loughner was not the shooter, that's fine, but I wish to address all the evidence that's been presented (and especially evidence that's only been imagined and supported by hysterical media shrieking) in order to present a defense for him, since I believe he is innocent. None of the evidence I've seen presented supports the theory that he did this shooting.

Originally posted by Heros_son
reply to post by StalkingGoogle

 

A person can be described as fleeing just by turning and taking a step or two. Or even stepping backward while facing the scene.

So, that's how he could be in two places. The two places may have been just a few feet apart.

But of course the only witnesses that reported the shooter fleeing say he completely left the scene. Keep in mind almost all the witnesses close enough to identify anyone hit the deck the moment the shooting started and really saw nothing but the aftermath. This isn't a case of misunderstanding the term "fleeing", the witnesses and the police dispatch both reported the shooter had left the scene, not that he had been tackled while trying to reload. The "tackled while trying to reload" story is a wholly concocted and hysterical media hallucination.

Originally posted by Heros_son
reply to post by StalkingGoogle

 

A person can be described as fleeing just by turning and taking a step or two. Or even stepping backward while facing the scene.

So, that's how he could be in two places. The two places may have been just a few feet apart.

I wanted to do this in a separate post so it didn't get confused with my replies to your comments, but please, try and stick to the evidence here, not a bunch of hypothetical step or stepping scenarios you imagine for the sole purpose of propping up your beliefs. Evidence, not speculation or your imagined scenarios, please.

Originally posted by Patrioitinsheepclothing
reply to post by StalkingGoogle

 

If thats true, then wheres the hard proof on Zamudio and Badger being the shooters??

I don't think it's possible to positively prove Zamudio (the shooter) and Badger (the handler) were active participants in this event, but their own statements and the statements of others suggest quite strongly that's the case. Of course for an event like this to be portrayed as it has would take the active complicity of law enforcement departments as well as mass media outlets. No surprise there if that actually took place, the media whores have no problem spreading fables to the benefit of police, the police have no problems at all lying to people they train each other to do exactly that all the time, standard operating procedure, par for the course and so on. So it certainly wouldn't be remarkable if this was all one giant hoax, or if the pseudofactoids the media hysterically shrieked about it were all concocted gibberish designed to sway the public mind. It would be a greater shock if Loughner actually was the shooter and the media is telling the truth about everything.

Keep in mind I'm not saying the witnesses are all lying, just that the media has consistently ignored the very witness testimony that they have published in order to afford the Loughner angle as much freedom to grow and mutate on its own as possible. I stand by my original post, and I still see nothing but hysterical media shrieking suggesting Loughner was the shooter. The witness testimony and the other available evidence tells a different tale.

Are you fine people familiar with his youtube videos?

I believe he also posted here on ATS at some stage, anyway here are his videos for those who have not seen them.

reply to post by StalkingGoogle


I agree with you, there truely isnt enough true evidence nailing him to the crime in my book either, but this is going to be spoon fed to us till the end.
I just thought you might have something to point the finger firmly someplace else.

I compair it to getting a ticket in the mail for something you did in your car but never got pulled over for, there literally is no way out.
This is a small scale JFK operation, except we dont have the shooter in jail waiting for him to die and his records sealed or the spent casing with his teeth marks in it.

reply to post by StalkingGoogle


Of course there is the ballistic evidence against him.

And as far as the evidence you seem to want so desperately, keep searching. Since when does the state reveal all their evidence before the trial?

I gotta give you props, tho, for posting the most humorous post I've read today. But I haven't been over to the Reptilian forums yet.

I thought I heard a judge had been shot at the same time who had just ruled or was going to rule that money crossing the border could not be seized unless proof of a crime that had been committed. Maybe the shooting of Giffords was a cover-up so that the news would focus there and not on the judge.
www.eutimes.net...

dockets.justia.com...:2010cv00703/568697/

oops, link too long I guess. You'll have to cut and paste:

http :// dockets.justia.com/docket/arizona/azdce/4:2010cv00703/568697/

Originally posted by Burnerz
Are you fine people familiar with his youtube videos?

I believe he also posted here on ATS at some stage, anyway here are his videos for those who have not seen them.

I don't see any reason to believe those videos were posted by him, or to think any of his internet tracks are still online. The FBI had his MySpace account yanked. Why would they leave those videos? Incidentally, the YouTube channel was listed as one of only two channels that Giffords was subscribed to. Very peculiar indeed. Also Loughner's supposed internet tracks have nothing to do with this crime, if a crime even took place. It could all be a giant hoax. Clearly a lot of the witnesses who were put on the television aren't telling a few facts, like the fact that "Badger" and "Zamudio" look like they could be father and son. You want to be convinced of that? Look at the following video:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by mishigas
reply to post by StalkingGoogle

 

Of course there is the ballistic evidence against him.

And as far as the evidence you seem to want so desperately, keep searching.

Since when does the state reveal all their evidence before the trial?

I gotta give you props, tho, for posting the most humorous post I've read today. But I haven't been over to the Reptilian forums yet.

Unless he spit the bullets out his mouth, the ballistic evidence can only tie the bullets to a gun, not to a person. The gun was only seen in Salzgeber's hand. Badger has only said he saw the gun in Salzgeber's hand. Maisch has only said she saw the gun in Salzgeber's hand. Zamudio has only said he saw the gun in Salzgeber's hand, and he also said Salzgeber said to Loughner "I'll kill you" and was waving the gun around. Three witnesses put the gun in Salzgeber's hand. Salzgeber was the bait and switch, would surely be questioned by the police when three people say he was holding the gun, waving it around and threatening to kill people. Zamudio was one of those people, and had a concealed pistol on the scene, and he talks like he's military (like his father "Colonel Bill Badger"?), so in the eyes of the police he was the "hero".

About 90% of this is from direct witness testimony, my speculations are in bold:

Badger was bleeding from his head, Loughner clocked him in the head trying to escape. Salzgeber, the pigeon, was Badger's backup handler. Zamudio was the shooter. He went into the Safeway, wandered around conspicuously, was observed on camera putting earplugs in his ears, came out of the Safeway and immediately began shooting, ran down the sidewalk and disappeared behind the Walgreens for a few seconds once everyone had ducked and covered or ran from the gunfire, then Loughner clocks Badger with the chair, is taken down by Salzgeber and a slightly stunned Badger, Maisch is the scrappy old lady, also another backup handler, the three are on Loughner by the time Zamudio shows up, Zamudio grabbed Salzgeber's hand and shook the gun to the ground and told him to step on it (control of the murder weapon Zamudio had just used), Salzgeber's final job complete, giving a reason why only his prints were on the gun and Loughner's weren't (police dispatch reported the firearm was "in the crowd somewhere").

And that's how simple it is to pull of that magic trick, right before the very eyes of the victims and onlookers and other active participants.

Originally posted by KSprepared
I thought I heard a judge had been shot at the same time who had just ruled or was going to rule that money crossing the border could not be seized unless proof of a crime that had been committed. Maybe the shooting of Giffords was a cover-up so that the news would focus there and not on the judge.
www.eutimes.net...

dockets.justia.com...:2010cv00703/568697/

oops, link too long I guess. You'll have to cut and paste:

http :// dockets.justia.com/docket/arizona/azdce/4:2010cv00703/568697/

edit on 4-8-2011 by KSprepared because: fix link

I believe Judge John Roll was one of the "real" victims, as in he was actually shot, wasn't in on the hoax and was killed for totally unrelated reasons that have never been discussed in the hysterical media.

reply to post by StalkingGoogle


Videos he posted before the shootings.

Why would someone go to the trouble to create videos about him when he was a nobody? Its fascinating to read the thoughts of someone who went out and did something like that. Whether he was mind controlled or just crazy the things in the videos provoke a lot of thought.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by StalkingGoogle
Badger was bleeding from his head, Loughner clocked him in the head trying to escape.

Another possibility, that I almost don't want to mention, is that Zamudio actually hit Badger in the head with a ricochet, like he said in an interview, and that Badger, in some weird way, doesn't want to tell on his son and say "yeah he accidentally hit me too". Badger never comes right out and says he saw Loughner doing the shooting, even though clearly that's what we're all supposed to think, I think Badger's paternal protective instincts just wouldn't allow him to aknowledge to other people that the shooter (his son) actually shot him (even with a ricochet). You have to bear in mind Badger has probably been raising Zamudio since he was a young kid to drop the hammer. Maybe this was his first public execution.

If you want a Hollywood example of this kind of relationship, see the movie Panic, with Donald Sutherland as Colonel Bill Badger and William H. Macy playing the role of Joe Zamudio.

Originally posted by Burnerz
reply to post by StalkingGoogle

 

Videos he posted before the shootings.

Why would someone go to the trouble to create videos about him when he was a nobody?

Again, I see no reason to believe Jared Loughner created or posted any of those videos you referenced, or made any posts on this web site. If you have some way we could verify it was, indeed, him that created and posted those videos and that posted to this web site, feel free to share it with us all so we can be as convinced as you seem to be.

Also, and this bears repeating, those videos have absolutely nothing to do with these crimes, assuming actual crimes even took place and this wasn't just one gigantic hoax instead of several other hoaxes wrapped in an assassination (of a sitting federal judge).

Why would somebody set up Jared Loughner like this? Um...to set him up?

reply to post by StalkingGoogle

About 90% of this is from direct witness testimony, my speculations are in bold:

Sorry. Earlier you totally discounted direct witness testimony. You can't play that card now.

Gun -> bought by person -> never reported stolen -> involved in crime. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

He is as guilty as sin. Don't even waste time on a trial. Just hang him.

Originally posted by mishigas
Sorry. Earlier you totally discounted direct witness testimony.

You're very much mistaken. In fact I seem to be the only one who has paid any attention to the witness testimony. Everyone else seems to only remember the hysterical media shrieking. The witness testimony puts the gun only in Salzgeber's hand. None of the witnesses positively identified Loughner as the shooter. The only reason any of them think he was the shooter is because, when the shooting was all over, they got up and saw three people dogpiled on Loughner and one of those people was waving the gun around and threatening to kill Loughner. This is ALL from witness testimony, though most of the testimony published by the media seems to have come from active participants in this shooting.

As for your contention that somebody should just be hanged because you "know" they're guilty, well hell, let's just do away with the courts and make you chief executioner for the nation. We'll just ask you what you think about it and if you say guilty then we'll start hanging. That sound good to you?

I still have yet to see any convincing evidence put forth suggesting Loughner shot anyone, ever. I stand by my original post.

Years later and still no evidence put forth proving Loughner did any shooting. Still no indictments on Zamudio, either.