We're Taking Back Our Government, and This Is What We Have To Say

reply to post by spav5


This isn't about abolishing government.

It's about restoring proper government.

reply to post by Kitilani


We get your stance. Your protests will not change anybody's view.

Instead, take this as an "if."

IF things were to change, what would you want to say?

Are you completely fine with absolutely everything going on in this country?

Do you not have a single grievance you wish to have addressed?

ETA: I'm an Athiest. Why are children poor and hungry? Surely it's not because the government has failed them is it? How much do we spend on war and flat-out donation/ bribery to other countries? What would YOU do with that money? Take care of these children? Or are you using the age-old "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" argument?

reply to post by ForeverDusk


Most people have been so indoctrinated by the media that their eyes will gloss over and they will refuse to listen to you when you attempt to explain the state of things. I've been at this for years and I'm starting to think that the only thing that will actually change anything is the coming financial collapse, not the efforts of men like you and myself... Not even Ron Paul... Only the complete and total loss of the one thing that they use to control us more than anything else... Money.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by spav5

 

This isn't about abolishing government.

It's about restoring proper government.

Exactly my point..who do we replace them with? how do we select them? I select them? you select them? Or do we just have campaigns and the ones supported with the most money get s/elected..seems we have that way already.

Peace

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by ForeverDusk

 

Most people have been so indoctrinated by the media that their eyes will gloss over and they will refuse to listen to you when you attempt to explain the state of things. I've been at this for years and I'm starting to think that the only thing that will actually change anything is the coming financial collapse, not the efforts of men like you and myself... Not even Ron Paul... Only the complete and total loss of the one thing that they use to control us more than anything else... Money.

Why must we be so persistent in dragging on the whole "UGH, NO ONE EVER LISTENS, DON'T BOTHER" ordeal? Can't someone just be optimistic every once and a while?

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by Kitilani

 

So be it. Your opt-out is duly noted.
Revolution doesn't require everyone's involvement.
Not even a majority's.

If you'll please leave us "little people" to it...

You severely misunderstand. What makes you think that you and I both want the same things? I would be more than happy to grab my guns and stand beside you. What happens when you realize that my views on defunding planned parenthood differ from yours? How about when it turns out we do not agree about healthcare reform? See where this is going? There is a really good chance that half the country is going to have a large disagreement on what government they want to have after the revolution. So the only "we" here is half the country unless you can show me that "we" actually means the people of the US. The same people that sit here on ATS and argue daily about how very different their views of how things should be are.

reply to post by spav5


Like I said, this is about restoring the Constitution. Naturally, this would involve Democratic elections. Not career politicians and bureaucrats that were bred for the role.

Personally, I'd like to see scientists, humanists, great thinkers, an array of religious leaders, veterans, veterans, veterans, the bold, the brave, those of great integrity, those that favor moderation and a hands-off approach to a free people.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by Kitilani

 

So be it. Your opt-out is duly noted.
Revolution doesn't require everyone's involvement.
Not even a majority's.

If you'll please leave us "little people" to it...

What happens when you realize that my views on defunding planned parenthood differ from yours? How about when it turns out we do not agree about healthcare reform? See where this is going? There is a really good chance that half the country is going to have a large disagreement on what government they want to have after the revolution. So the only "we" here is half the country unless you can show me that "we" actually means the people of the US. The same people that sit here on ATS and argue daily about how very different their views of how things should be are.

That would be decided at a new Congress. This is about restoring the Constitution.

killing a deer does not put food on the table..You still have to field dress, drag out of woods, skin it, butcher it, and if you choose cook it, then place it on the table.

Do you have plan for anything other than killing the deer?

Peace

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
We "spoiled angry little people" aren't "demanding" anything except a return to constitutional principle.

Yes you are. When a minority declares they are the only ones with an opinion that matters that is pretty much the definition of spoiled and angry. When you declare it is proof of what "we" want when "we" only means "you guys" then it is a less of an agreement and more of a demand.

Which quite clearly just from reading ATS is not something everyone interprets the same way. It is a nice little sentence but when you actually look at how differently people view "constitutional principle" it starts to break down.

I doubt the majority wants to live under the rule of the fascists and the corporatists, they are just not yet awakened to the tyranny. If all Americans knew about the bankers' plans for their children, revolution would be here by morning. This document favors no one specific.

Those or some pretty vague issues to base your assumption that we will all come together to take down the government. Just the fact that Obama's approval rating is still close to 50% shows that about half the country is not interested in "taking back" the same country as the other half.

All I am saying is that your "we" should be re-written to more accurately reflect who "we" really are since from reading your manifesto you seemed to leave a lot of us out. Whether you like it or not, other Americans like me who may not want the same post-revolution government as you count whether you like it or not.

reply to post by Kitilani


Then you can cast your vote accordingly. I absolutely believe Planned Parenthood should lose government funding. They provide a service I disagree with but the people want. They should fund their own endeavor accordingly.

Healthcare will fix itself. I myself am an EMT and I offer my services free of charge. A nation that is not so wrapped up in itself will not require so many taxes and other fees imposed on healthcare providers. This should adjust the cost accordingly. If people can't afford to go, they will get no business. I don't need to draw a picture on where that leads..

Originally posted by Kitilani
All I am saying is that your "we" should be re-written to more accurately reflect who "we" really are since from reading your manifesto you seemed to leave a lot of us out. Whether you like it or not, other Americans like me who may not want the same post-revolution government as you count whether you like it or not.

Guess you missed the "undersigned" bit.

Originally posted by spav5

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by spav5

 

This isn't about abolishing government.

It's about restoring proper government.

Exactly my point..who do we replace them with? how do we select them? I select them? you select them? Or do we just have campaigns and the ones supported with the most money get s/elected..seems we have that way already.

Peace

The population and the states agree, not just "us" or all the members of ATS. The ones supported with the most money, would be a poor choice, due to the fact thats the reason why we would revolt. We elect those we can trust, but with great experience.

reply to post by spav5


The deer was already prepared.
It's about to become a rotting corpse.

This is why you preserve it.

Originally posted by vermonster
reply to post by Kitilani

 

christian extremists?!

wtf are you rambling about?

the majority of americans ARE pissed off at "their" government.

you sir/madam are part of the minority. echoing the failing corporate/state run media word "extremist"

I never said there is not a majority pissed off at government but it breaks down pretty simply. Lots of people are pissed off about HCR because they believe it is socialism and death panels. Lots of other people are pissed off at HCR because it did not include single payer - was not "socialist" enough. So when you get all those pissed off people together with their guns and they start talking...how well is that revolution going to go?

You cannot boldly claim that the American people all want a revolution just because a few of you do. You and the OP claiming to speak for me or anyone else is quite presumptive.

...and yes - Christian Extremists. If there is any confusion over that send me a U2U.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by Kitilani

 

We get your stance. Your protests will not change anybody's view.

Instead, take this as an "if."

IF things were to change, what would you want to say?

Are you completely fine with absolutely everything going on in this country?

Do you not have a single grievance you wish to have addressed?

You are totally missing my point. I never said there should not be a revolution nor did I say I am thrilled with government. What I am saying is that there is a huge divide in the people right now and what they actually want in a government. There will be no one rising up of the people against the government when half of those people have completely opposite views of what the result should look like.

ETA: I'm an Athiest. Why are children poor and hungry? Surely it's not because the government has failed them is it? How much do we spend on war and flat-out donation/ bribery to other countries? What would YOU do with that money? Take care of these children? Or are you using the age-old "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" argument?

edit on 4-8-2011 by SpringHeeledJack because: (no reason given)

What? Am I using that age old argument? I never brought up war or children so I am not at all sure what you are pinning on me. You just used that argument.

reply to post by Kitilani


Nobody once said anything about a violent overthrow of government.

You are projecting and assigning.

Certainly, that's the last thing anyone would want.

This is why we protest.

This is why we gather as intellectually as possible and put together these things.

In order to prevent violence.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
That would be decided at a new Congress. This is about restoring the Constitution.

edit on 8/4/2011 by ForeverDusk because: (no reason given)

What new congress? The one the teabaggers install? The one the Democrats put in place? Why on Earth would I want to abdicate my roll in electing officials to some "new congress?" You are suggesting we overthrow the government and install a new congress - made up of who? - and then give up our right to vote in lieu of allowing this new congress to decide for us. I still think you are missing that whole, half the country does not agree on how this country should proceed.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
That would be decided at a new Congress. This is about restoring the Constitution.

edit on 8/4/2011 by ForeverDusk because: (no reason given)

What new congress? The one the teabaggers install? The one the Democrats put in place? Why on Earth would I want to abdicate my roll in electing officials to some "new congress?" You are suggesting we overthrow the government and install a new congress

That's not at all what I'm suggesting. The "new Congress" is the same body that's been in place since the founding of this country, just with new people. You know, NOT career politicians.

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by spav5

 

The deer was already prepared.
It's about to become a rotting corpse.

This is why you preserve it.

Let me put it this way..by your example only the corporations or the corrupt are at the table now...When we remove them from the table..who do we put at the table..Do I get to sit at the table? Then I decide who else? Seems that is what happened already..we invited banking to the table..now they decide who else gets to sit at the table.

I absolutely hate this system..But what do we replace it with? or whom do we replace 'them' with?

Peace