Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

After some trial and error I think I have figured out how to use the quote function, we will see.

But I don't miss the times where you said I was taught false doctrine. You admit that you don't have perfect knowledge, but you are able to say someone else has false doctrine.

Yes and that is how we find the truth, by eliminating the wrong answers first. The world does not rest on the back of a giant turtle, we know this because we have been to space and have telescopes.

If I worried about consensus, I would not be an atheist. Everyone I know is christian. If you don't know what the truth is, how do you live by it?

Yet, you have repeatedly said that there are all these different beliefs and therefore you cannot believe any of them, that is what I meant by consensus. Someone has just begun a thread on NDEs, within it he discusses how much people who have had them are in agreement, that is when you get your consensus.

Ok then, you can be saved then continue to live in your sin? So pretty much there's no difference between christians and sinners except christians have the heart of Jesus? Is that what you're saying or do I have you wrong on that?

Paul answered that and his answer is pretty good. Start with Romans 3:31, then Romans 6:2 and Romans 6:15. I really don't like quoting chapter and verse as a rule; but, because you were raised legalistically I provide them, not a complaint an explanation for why I give chapter and verse.

What I was getting at was you mentioned that god says we should be hot or cold, not lukewarm. We shouldn't sit on the fence, as you say. We should believe in something instead of remaining neutral. What do you do if you don't know what to believe?

When there is a fire in a building you don't wait to examine it, measure it and verify that it is hot, you leave the building. Only you will know when you have enough information to decide either way; but, if you wait until you have perfect knowledge then you will have to wait until you are perfect and that never happens here on earth. As far as hot and cold, that is not about not knowing it is about knowing enough to make a decision and refusing to.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

I'm not asking to be a god. I'm just asking for truth, and if this god is real and wants to get to know me, and loves me unconditionally, I'm fine with that.

I have to correct what you said, he already knows you, he accepted you as you are. You do not know him because you do not accept him as who he is and he is good with letting you choose. When we choose to be the one who requires proof we choose to be God. This is perverted by some who take a phrase by Jesus where he tells the Pharisees or the Saducees (I don't remember which and it really doesn't matter and I don't care to look it up) that they say that they are little gods and they are. There are pastors who claim that this means that we can become gods; but, they do not understand what it means. If one is the only sentience that one is aware of then we have become like God, all alone until we create new people and he was better at creating people than I care to try.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Yes and that is how we find the truth, by eliminating the wrong answers first.

It is easy to see that the world doesn't rest on the back of a giant turtle. We can use our senses and technology to see that. Now, when dealing with ancient texts and beliefs in gods in which you can't see, that's different. You interpret scripture in ways that make sense to you, others interpret things differently, and others interpret it different from those people.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Yet, you have repeatedly said that there are all these different beliefs and therefore you cannot believe any of them, that is what I meant by consensus.

When will you apologize for misquoting me and putting words in my mouth? You still haven't done it for some reason. I didn't say that I can not believe any of them. I said, how will I know which one is true, if any, as there are so many beliefs...and each person believes there's to be true? If someone has a good reason and evidence, which is also open to discussion as to what qualifies for that, as to what they believe is true, then it might be easier to believe.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Someone has just begun a thread on NDEs, within it he discusses how much people who have had them are in agreement, that is when you get your consensus.

I have seen many of these and they vary. I have asked kinglizard questions about his in which he states he didn't know if he had a body or not. I asked him how he could not know, all you have to do is look. And if you can look, that must mean you have eyes. If you have eyes, then maybe you have a head that your eyes sit in. If you have a head, then maybe there's a neck that it sits on, etc. How could you not know? Sounds more like a dream to me, where you hardly ever see your body.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Paul answered that and his answer is pretty good. Start with Romans 3:31, then Romans 6:2 and Romans 6:15. I really don't like quoting chapter and verse as a rule; but, because you were raised legalistically I provide them, not a complaint an explanation for why I give chapter and verse.

Read this explanation from a christian website and you'll see what I was trying to say that I believed. www.gotquestions.org...

Originally posted by AQuestion
When there is a fire in a building you don't wait to examine it, measure it and verify that it is hot, you leave the building. Only you will know when you have enough information to decide either way; but, if you wait until you have perfect knowledge then you will have to wait until you are perfect and that never happens here on earth. As far as hot and cold, that is not about not knowing it is about knowing enough to make a decision and refusing to.

I know that fire is hot from experience. I don't have to examine it. Depending on how much fire is there, I may be able to put it out. If there's too much, I get out. So, if I see a small fire, I don't leave the building because experience tells me I can put it out and maybe save the building from being destroyed.

Again about the hot and cold....what if I don't have enough information to make a decision? Why make one in haste?

Originally posted by AQuestion
I have to correct what you said, he already knows you, he accepted you as you are. You do not know him because you do not accept him as who he is and he is good with letting you choose.

I do not accept him because I have not heard from him. I don't even know if he's real. If I said that Santa wanted a relationship with you, you just have to accept him as who he is. You'd want evidence that Santa is real, wouldn't you? Sorry about the Santa analogy again, I guess I could use Allah.

Originally posted by AQuestion
When we choose to be the one who requires proof we choose to be God.

Really, how? If you choose to require proof that Santa is real, does that mean you choose to be Santa, or Allah? I don't get what you mean by that.

Originally posted by AQuestion
This is perverted by some who take a phrase by Jesus where he tells the Pharisees or the Saducees (I don't remember which and it really doesn't matter and I don't care to look it up) that they say that they are little gods and they are. There are pastors who claim that this means that we can become gods; but, they do not understand what it means.

I have heard believers on these boards say the same thing, and I think it's silly. One of them even reads the bible in the Hebrew language.

Originally posted by AQuestion
If one is the only sentience that one is aware of then we have become like God, all alone until we create new people and he was better at creating people than I care to try.

I am aware of many sentient people.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

I sought to answer questions regarding dogma not to prove to you that God exists. If you were seeking proof of God, you will not get it from me because I can only say what I know and not what you know. I cannot prove to you what is in my heart or mind, I can only live as I do for the reasons that I do. I actually care less about what you think that I do about those who might are believers and might actually think the fundamentalist dogma you quoted was true.

Perhaps you should have this conversation with a fundamentalist who reads the bible as you do. I do not agree with them or their interpretation any more than I agree with yours. Like your search for God, your search for an apology is not going to get what you seek. In both cases you seek to set the rules and it doesn't work that way as you offer nothing back.

Spirits are tangible to each other in the other world.
But they don't fight to kill each other. They fight mentally to influence the living world.

I suppose that it is a common belief that God is omniscient (all knowing).
I don't believe that.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Perhaps you should have this conversation with a fundamentalist who reads the bible as you do.

I have.

Originally posted by AQuestion
I do not agree with them or their interpretation any more than I agree with yours.

You said that you don't know for certain that your beliefs are 100% true. That tells me that you know that you could be wrong about things. That tells me that you could have a false doctrine and not them, but I imagine you don't see it that way. It's easy for me to see it that way, as I am on the outside looking in.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Like your search for God, your search for an apology is not going to get what you seek. In both cases you seek to set the rules and it doesn't work that way as you offer nothing back.

It is ok if you can't offer an apology for your wrong doing. Pride is tough sometimes. I do apologize however if I have misquoted you or put words in your mouth you did not say. I don't want to do that, I want to understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. But, I think I'm getting to know you pretty good now and what you're going to say is that you didn't ask for an apology and do not accept mine.

Originally posted by ren1999
Spirits are tangible to each other in the other world.
But they don't fight to kill each other. They fight mentally to influence the living world.

Could they kill each other? If so, what does a spirit become when it dies?

Originally posted by ren1999
I suppose that it is a common belief that God is omniscient (all knowing).
I don't believe that.

Why do you call it "god"?

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

I am happy to apologize if you believe I have misunderstood you or your reasons and you actually managed to misunderstand again. I said you would not get an apology under your rules, demanding one. I did indeed not ask for an apology, I don't as a rule; but, I do accept them if freely given, that is how I approach them and give them. It is as I have said, how i view developing a good relationship be it with God or another, nothing by requirement, freely given.

And p.s., I have to thank you for something, you caused me to learn how to use the quote function as you do. That is pretty cool and I now know how to do it also.

It is ok if you can't offer an apology for your wrong doing. Pride is tough sometimes. I do apologize however if I have misquoted you or put words in your mouth you did not say. I don't want to do that, I want to understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. But, I think I'm getting to know you pretty good now and what you're going to say is that you didn't ask for an apology and do not accept mine.

Originally posted by AQuestion
I am happy to apologize if you believe I have misunderstood you or your reasons and you actually managed to misunderstand again. I said you would not get an apology under your rules, demanding one.

Ok, sounds fair.

Originally posted by AQuestion
I did indeed not ask for an apology, I don't as a rule; but, I do accept them if freely given, that is how I approach them and give them. It is as I have said, how i view developing a good relationship be it with God or another, nothing by requirement, freely given.

Sounds reasonable.

Originally posted by AQuestion
And p.s., I have to thank you for something, you caused me to learn how to use the quote function as you do. That is pretty cool and I now know how to do it also.

Yes, I had to do some research to figure out how to do it. It makes the replies look a lot better imo. There are times when I have to go back and edit my posts because I have the quote feature all screwed up. Kind of like in this post. That's why there's an edit.

reply to post by Hydroman


A spirit's body is eternal as it is the energy extending out from the once living body in the universe in all directions.

Before Christianity.....what was in play? Was there an organized religion? Not really....there was not one book there were many..many teachers and many ways as far as the people understood and as far as I have understood.

Gnostic Christian teachings were underway and taking over before 100AD..the Spirit "talk" and the loving natures of the people were not what the Roman Empire was all about. They wanted to control the people and burn gospel teachings that did not "fit in" with their plan of controlling the masses. Christianity as a controlled Religion was then Born into existence around 300Ad. If you did not believe as they then taught and you voiced this opinion....you were killed. Pope Constantine lead this and it is still going on today.

Faith is indeed an attribute that one must have and has always had to connect them with the Divine Spirit. No matter what has happened in the past....we go back to the days of Gnostic, the mystery of the Universe and define it within our own knowledge and wisdom from learning and sensing.

Do not fear the unknown. DO not fear not having all the answers. The light shines on us and we must seek the faith within and our own truth. Its out here....everywhere. God is everywhere....all you have to do is have that sense of faith. To not see does not mean it is not there....its everywhere.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I do not know anything my friend. You tell me, who am I?

I've got no clue.

Anyways, I noticed in your signature it says that Jesus died for us because we were unwilling to die for him. What do you mean by that? According to the bible, many of his followers died because of their belief in him. I suppose that that has happened all through out history.

But, if we did die for him, then he wouldn't have had to died for us? That's what your sig seems to suggest. Could you please explain?

edit on 7-8-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

I do not wish to offend you my friend, but I do not wish to be drawn into any lengthy discussions at this time. On the matters of Christ, I have already said all that needed to be said in the brief time that I was active here. I pop in from time to time, but time for talk is done. Now I spend my time doing what I said I came to do.

It is just a question. The meaning lies in the answer. Only you can give that meaning.

With Love,

Your Brother

P.S. Did you leave the studies of Christ because of his followers or because of his teachings? Remember, the master is found within. You can not run from yourself indefinitely.

Originally posted by ren1999

A spirit's body is eternal as it is the energy extending out from the once living body in the universe in all directions.

Where do you get this information?

Originally posted by MamaJ
Do not fear the unknown. DO not fear not having all the answers. The light shines on us and we must seek the faith within and our own truth. Its out here....everywhere. God is everywhere....all you have to do is have that sense of faith. To not see does not mean it is not there....its everywhere.

If we seek our own truth, then nobody would be wrong. Everyone's truth could possibly differ from each other. Would that mean that everyone is right? How does that work?

Originally posted by IAMIAM
I do not wish to offend you my friend, but I do not wish to be drawn into any lengthy discussions at this time. On the matters of Christ, I have already said all that needed to be said in the brief time that I was active here. I pop in from time to time, but time for talk is done. Now I spend my time doing what I said I came to do.

No problem and I'm not offended.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
P.S. Did you leave the studies of Christ because of his followers or because of his teachings?

Some of his teachings are good, some are not. Mark 12:31 Is a good verse. "Love your neighbor as yourself," would make a different world if everyone lived by that. Matthew 6:34 "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own," is not good advice imo. You should be thinking about your future and planning for it, not take it one day at a time. Matthew 5:29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell," seems to be bad advice as well. If it were good advice, I suppose every man in the world would be blind. Matthew 10:34-37 isn't very nice either, "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes [shall be] they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." If we are all christ, or a part of him, or whatever you believe, then that verse just doesn't make sense.

I left the faith because of the culmination of many things. Not just one or two things, but many. It was a journey of about 10 years, searching, asking, reading, etc. but not continuously I might add.

Originally posted by Hydroman
I have seen people who were christians of many years say that god told them something, such as an event that would occur on a specific date, only for that day to pass and nothing happened. Did this god trick them, or did the thought come from their own mind? If it came from their own mind, how do they not know the difference between their thoughts and the difference between the voice of the creator of the universe?

OP, Although I am a pretty firm believer on what you said. How do you know in another universe the day that "God" said something would happen didn't actually happen? In your universe it might not have came. But in another; "Many worlds" interpretation this could be highly possibly that it did infact happen.

Hell, in MWI you could still be christian. And have met this "God"

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by ren1999

A spirit's body is eternal as it is the energy extending out from the once living body in the universe in all directions.

Where do you get this information?

21 Grams Theory.

reply to post by JuniorDavis


21 grams of masse isn't a proof of the existence of the spirit departing a dead corps.
Think about it one minute:
If the spirit could be weighted and measured then this will be in total contradiction with the so called subtlety of the consistence of the soul...the soul in fact can't be measure with any 3 dimensional objects.
You can't have it both way.

Originally posted by MamaJ
Before Christianity.....what was in play? Was there an organized religion? Not really....there was not one book there were many..many teachers and many ways as far as the people understood and as far as I have understood.

First off, I just want to say that I try my best to stay out of these kinds of topics. Why, Because your first question is so vague. No one truly knows when christianity started.

2000 years ago is a very good estimate. Since "Christianity" means the followers of christ. One would assume it was when Jesus was around. Since that is when you could learn about him and follow him.

What was before 2000 years. Lots of stuff, Many things that You, Myself, And many other users reading this post have no ideas.

But you should research Sumeria. They were the first people on earth to document stuff with research. Far before "Jesus" was on earth; According to the research we have of when he was here.