Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

The following quote summarizes my feelings about the subject nicely:

The irony of religion is that because of its power to divert man to destructive courses, the world could actually come to an end. The plain fact is, religion must die for mankind to live. The hour is getting very late to be able to indulge in having in key decisions made by religious people. By irrationalists, by those who would steer the ship of state not by a compass, but by the equivalent of reading the entrails of a chicken. George Bush prayed a lot about Iraq, but he didn't learn a lot about it. Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking. It's nothing to brag about. And those who preach faith, and enable and elevate it are intellectual slaveholders, keeping mankind in a bondage to fantasy and nonsense that has spawned and justified so much lunacy and destruction. Religion is dangerous because it allows human beings who don't have all the answers to think that they do. Most people would think it's wonderful when someone says, "I'm willing, Lord! I'll do whatever you want me to do!" Except that since there are no gods actually talking to us, that void is filled in by people with their own corruptions and limitations and agendas. And anyone who tells you they know, they just know what happens when you die, I promise you, you don't. How can I be so sure? Because I don't know, and you do not possess mental powers that I do not. The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is not the arrogant certitude that is the hallmark of religion, but doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting # dead wrong. This is why rational people, anti-religionists, must end their timidity and come out of the closet and assert themselves. And those who consider themselves only moderately religious really need to look in the mirror and realize that the solace and comfort that religion brings you actually comes at a terrible price. If you belonged to a political party or a social club that was tied to as much bigotry, misogyny, homophobia, violence, and sheer ignorance as religion is, you'd resign in protest. To do otherwise is to be an enabler, a mafia wife, for the true devils of extremism that draw their legitimacy from the billions of their fellow travelers. If the world does come to an end here, or wherever, or if it limps into the future, decimated by the effects of religion-inspired nuclear terrorism, let's remember what the real problem was that we learned how to precipitate mass death before we got past the neurological disorder of wishing for it. That's it. Grow up or die.

Originally posted by ren1999
30 years from now religion will no longer be faith. It will be science fact. You see, in 30 years we will develop technology to speak with spirits of the dead.

My answer, our family and friends that have gone before us are our guardian angels. They collectively form a part of the universe that we call Beneficial God. One chief spirit among them is Apollonius of Tyana. Please look him up.

Now the Big God is the uncaring universe itself. You can be innocent or you can be evil, it doesn't matter. If you do something stupid or you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, Big God will take you.

ok buddy,,,,

Good luck.

Originally posted by ren1999
30 years from now religion will no longer be faith. It will be science fact. You see, in 30 years we will develop technology to speak with spirits of the dead.

My answer, our family and friends that have gone before us are our guardian angels. They collectively form a part of the universe that we call Beneficial God. One chief spirit among them is Apollonius of Tyana. Please look him up.

Now the Big God is the uncaring universe itself. You can be innocent or you can be evil, it doesn't matter. If you do something stupid or you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, Big God will take you.

Personally, I believe a giant purple unicorn with yellow stripes farted and created everything, and because it's lazy, it floats on the souls of dead people instead of walking (it could walk though if it wanted to, it just doesn't want to)...

See, I can make up stuff too, and just like you, I have ZERO evidence to back up my claims

I have to admit, it's fun though...I might decide it was a giant turtle instead of a unicorn though if you give me a bit more time to "think".

Originally posted by milkyway12

Also if your faith was this EASILY shaken ...... were you actually saved in the first place? There are consquences to sin believe it or not.

I don't think I was ever truly saved, as there is nothing to save me from. Now, when I was a believer, yes I believed I was saved. I accepted this free gift that Jesus gave me. I believed in him, loved him, wanted to live for him. I repented of my sins. I did this at about age 10. I didn't even masturbate until I was 23. I didn't curse, didn't go to parties, didn't smoke, didn't drink. I was the kid who brought their bible to high school. I believed I spoke in tongues, I believed I had the holy laughter. I gave god the glory for helping me live right. I loved this god, and lived for him. But in the end, I agree, I wasn't saved.

Originally posted by milkyway12
Good luck.

If you're talking to me, I appreciate it.

reply to post by Hydroman


God doesnt hear unsaved prayers.

The first and foremost commandment is is Love the Lord your God.

You cant keep God's laws. Not only do you have Flesh to contend with , you have principalites to contend with that make the lust of the flesh a 100 fold what it would be.

All you can do IS TRY to follow the Laws. Once you realise , its impossible. The better , your only ticket is to heaven is through Jesus Christ.

What Faith / Denomination were you by the way..? Protestant / Catholic?

God clearly preaches against religion in the New Covenant. A personal relationship , isnt religion

Satan actually uses RELIGION as a weapon.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by milkyway12

Also if your faith was this EASILY shaken ...... were you actually saved in the first place? There are consquences to sin believe it or not.

I don't think I was ever truly saved, as there is nothing to save me from. Now, when I was a believer, yes I believed I was saved. I accepted this free gift that Jesus gave me. I believed in him, loved him, wanted to live for him. I repented of my sins. I did this at about age 10. I didn't even masturbate until I was 23. I didn't curse, didn't go to parties, didn't smoke, didn't drink. I was the kid who brought their bible to high school. I believed I spoke in tongues, I believed I had the holy laughter. I gave god the glory for helping me live right. I loved this god, and lived for him. But in the end, I agree, I wasn't saved.

I think it's great you're man enough to re-evaluate your position based on logic. It's never easy to question your own opinion about something if it was sooooo ingrained in your life. So kudos, may your "awakening" give you a clear mind to see and appreciate the world through logic and rationality

You're not alone either, as science is able to explain more an more things, people realize that the old doctrines CAN'T be right given what we know today. And how could they? Those people back then didn't have 1% of the scientific knowledge we have today

reply to post by ren1999


You are soooooooo right! When I began my journey I started with the Council of Nicaea. I was shocked. Most Christians I run into have no idea what this Council was all about. Constantine burned so many texts its not even funny. It really saddens me that the control over the people was more important than Truth. 300 Versions of the Bible was supposedly burnt. What a shame!

Arius being in opposition claimed ......

For Arius with a solemn face would admit that Christ Jesus is very God and then add "because he was made such." This evasive causality might come upon the unwary ear as a high-sounding choice of words without malice. It did not deceive Athanasius who could catch in it the hidden contradiction: "Accord to Christ the title of God, if you will, so long as you remember he had to be created to become the Son and therefore did not share the Father's unbeginning eternity." The shiftiness, which would allow in one breath that Christ is truly God and insinuate in another that he is not quite God, was intended to suggest a discriminating mind of genuine insights. It suggested to Athanasius nothing better than a shameless quibbler.

So......in order for me to have a "relationship with the creator" I researched the First Council of Nicaea in the very beginning for to know the Bible....you must first know where it derived from.

reply to post by MamaJ


Did you ever consider that God used Constantine for this? You have KJV the primary bible ... instead of 300 versions? To sow even more confusion?

What Constantine thought was doing Evil ... God turned around and used it for good?

Originally posted by milkyway12

God doesnt hear unsaved prayers.

Wow, how does anyone get saved then? I also suppose you are suggesting that everyone who was praying for my brother was not saved. And everyone who was praying for that 7 year old boy with brain stem cancer was not saved?

Originally posted by milkyway12
The New Covenant doesnt require you to do all those things you just did. The first and foremost commandment is is Love the Lord your God.

I did love the lord.

Originally posted by milkyway12
You cant keep God's laws. Not only do you have Flesh to contend with , you have principalites to contend with that make the lust of the flesh a 100 fold what it would be.

So, this god knows we have these things to contend with and expects us to pull through? It seems that he would understand the reasons why we do the things we do, because as you explained we have this flesh, and we have principalities to contend with. He would know that once we are removed from this flesh, we wouldn't have those problems anymore, yet we pay for what we do in this flesh. Not only that, we pay for eternity, though we live in this flesh for 80 years.

Originally posted by milkyway12
What Faith / Denomination were you by the way..? Protestant / Catholic?

It was called full gospel, protestant. I believed that the gifts of the spirit were for present day times as well. Of course, that's what I was raised to believe.

Originally posted by milkyway12
God clearly preaches against religion in the New Covenant. A personal relationship , isnt religion

Where does it talk about a personal relationship in the bible?

Originally posted by MrXYZ

I think it's great you're man enough to re-evaluate your position based on logic. It's never easy to question your own opinion about something if it was sooooo ingrained in your life. So kudos, may your "awakening" give you a clear mind to see and appreciate the world through logic and rationality

You're not alone either, as science is able to explain more an more things, people realize that the old doctrines CAN'T be right given what we know today. And how could they? Those people back then didn't have 1% of the scientific knowledge we have today

You are right, it isn't easy at all. Though many christians here have tried to make it look like I just gave up easily. It has been very difficult. I DID NOT want to believe that this god did not exist. But, I finally had to do so. It makes much more sense to me.

Originally posted by milkyway12
Did you ever consider that God used Constantine for this? You have KJV the primary bible ... instead of 300 versions? To sow even more confusion?

Aren't there about 300 versions now? Some have verses missing, some have verses added, some have whole books removed. Look at protestant bibles, look at catholic bibles, look at the Ethiopian bible.

reply to post by AQuestion


I too believe in thought manifestation into matter. Here is something I have always pondered in regards to this subject. Does every single thought then create? Are there dimensions for all of them ? Its funny to think so.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by MrXYZ

I think it's great you're man enough to re-evaluate your position based on logic. It's never easy to question your own opinion about something if it was sooooo ingrained in your life. So kudos, may your "awakening" give you a clear mind to see and appreciate the world through logic and rationality

You're not alone either, as science is able to explain more an more things, people realize that the old doctrines CAN'T be right given what we know today. And how could they? Those people back then didn't have 1% of the scientific knowledge we have today

You are right, it isn't easy at all. Though many christians here have tried to make it look like I just gave up easily. It has been very difficult. I DID NOT want to believe that this god did not exist. But, I finally had to do so. It makes much more sense to me.

Yeah, but like I said, you're not alone...there's quite a few people in a similar situation on these boards. I'm one of the more outspoken anti-religion posters, and yes, I joke and mock once in a while (mostly if someone posts nonsense like that the world is only 6k years old), but I will always give credit to people who "wake up to reality", as I know it isn't easy after being indoctrinated for so many years.

Just be yourself and enjoy doing proper research. The world's a great place, and there's no need to make stuff up or following stuff others made up. Not knowing doesn't have to be scary.

Also...23yrs no masturbation? I would have gone berserk...that's even more impressive than you "waking up"

While looking somethings up , the Good Lord showed me something.

(19) Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


..... im an idiot , im going to be a Garbage man in heaven lol. Even though i do believe its impossible to keep the Commandments and the Law .... you still Try to keep them because you love God and want to please him through Righteousness.


But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking" (Matthew 6:7)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

6 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:

“‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’[a]

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[c] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[d] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”


This is clearly Religion ....
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking. 6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little[a] lower than the angels;
you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”[c]

In putting everything under them,[d] God left nothing that is not subject to them.[e] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.[f] 9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered. 11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.[g] 12 He says,

“I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters;
in the assembly I will sing your praises.”[h]

13 And again,

“I will put my trust in him.”

And again he says,

“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”[j]



Sounds like a Personal relationship to me .... do you not hold a Personal Relationship with your Child???

edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)