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The paradox of knowledge

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posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 02:28 AM
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Focusing on the "now" scares the # out of me, because nothing seems real; and at that point, I start to question my own sanity thinking that nothing can be known.

"Nothing" can be "known".
edit on 25-8-2011 by Irregular because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 03:05 AM
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reply to post by Irregular
 

That's hilarious!

Don't worry, according to the Buddhist, the no thing that CAN be known with absolute uncertainty, is "nothing special" which I take to mean that it's a special kind of nothing because it isn't no thing at all, so it's certainly not nothing, just nothing in particular, which can only mean one thing as in everything already always, which us kind of scary in it's own right, because the implication is that now is also forever and one from which any possibility of escape, is utterly impossible, and so we're stuck with it.

Question: What surfaces for you in the event that you got totally 100% present to this fear, and gave yourself complete permission to allow it to cause you to lose your mind?... is there any possibility for humor in any of it, that is, if you allowed yourself to experience the fear and if appropriate, go completely insane..?



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Irregular
 


What 'you' are is real. All the 'things' are appearances appearing, changing, moving. But you (the true you, the Self) is constant, you are the no thing. The nothing is literally that, not a 'thing'. What you are is the present moment. Presence. The present moment, now, is not a thing, yes it is every 'thing'. You are being everything. But you are nothing. The space that allows all 'things' to be.
That nothing can be known. When it looks toward the Self it recognizes that it is looking and it is home.

That insanity that is felt is the mind holding on. Forget the mind, forget every 'thing' go beyond and look at the Self. You will not go insane.

Abide as the Self.
youtu.be...

Namaste.
edit on 25-8-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-8-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


When the no thing is found it can not be said that it is nothing special, it is pretty amazing, not just the not a thing but then every thing. Suddenly everything is alive and before it was dead. I'd say that it is pretty special.
However, it is not something that you can not see now or have not seen, it is just that it has not been noticed, so in that respect, it is not a special. It is here and now always present, it is presence. It is always available, but overlooked.

edit on 25-8-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


I cannot begin to tell you how nice it is and feels to see and recognize one who "groks". Thank you for being you my friend.

Here's a statement about the joke I was alluding to in the post above about the no thing everything already always that CAN be known with absolute uncertainty, perhaps you or another might appreciate it the humor of understanding.


"Life is a Mighty Joke. He who knows this can hardly be understood by others. He who does not know it finds himself in a state of delusion. He may ponder over this problem day and night, but will find himself incapable of knowing it. Why? People take life seriously, and God lightly; whereas we must take God seriously, and take life lightly. Then, we know that we always were the same and will ever remain the same.......the Originator of this joke. This knowledge is not acheived by reasoning.
But it is the knowledge of experience."

~ Meher Baba


Here's another take on it (the humor of understanding) from another, although imo, a lessor "avatar" than Meter Baba.




edit on 25-8-2011 by NewAgeMan because: vid added to enhance comprehension.



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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@NewAgeMan

I had a long response typed up, but somehow I managed to cut it or something. Ahhh. I'll post again tommorow when not falling asleep.


Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Irregular
 

You are being everything. But you are nothing.
That nothing can be known. When it looks toward the Self it recognizes that it is looking and it is home.


The Self as a gateway to Home. Beautiful.


That insanity that is felt is the mind holding on. Forget the mind, forget every 'thing' go beyond and look at the Self. You will not go insane.


I'm hesitant to go that far really.. then again, I suppose there really is nothing to fear, but fear itself..
edit on 25-8-2011 by Irregular because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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Double post, my bad.

edit on 25-8-2011 by Irregular because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


Grok is a new word in my vocabulary, thank you, we grok man!!!
Thank you for the video and the Meher Baba joke.

Humor is most definitely the condition. Life is hilarious. People do not understand. Being does. Being understands and loves. People are confused and hate. It matters not, they are funny.
Strange how even flowers make me laugh out loud.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by Irregular
 


The mind is time. Awareness is always of the now present moment. Really there is no time, it is eternally now. The mind is an illusion as is time, they come together. The mind believes in time and time produces mind. And mind then creates all the problems which would be impossible without time. We can only be in fear if the mind is working with time. What is wrong with right now unless you think about it?
You are frightened that you will lose your mind, don't be scared, it is the best thing that could ever happen!!
It was never your mind anyway. The thoughts that appear, appear presently in this moment of now, that is all that mind can ever be. Those thoughts are seen/heard by what you are. The thoughts are generally parental (bully) and child (victim), they are what we heard as children from authority figures. They fight with each other and this is what causes the fear. They tell you that you are not safe. Ask yourself in the moment 'is it safe?' and you will find that in the moment it is always safe. In fact it is salvation, baptize yourself in now.
When the mind goes, when you lose your mind, all that will be left is Presence.

This is written by Jan Frazier:
youtu.be...



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
I ask these questions because I wonder if our desire to give meaning to all that we experience inhibits us from actually seeing, smelling, hearing, or feeling the nature of reality as it truly is. I wonder if this desire to attach meaning to all of our experiences is locking us into a rigid and limited systematic pattern of how we perceive these phenomena. If so, then the very thing that most of us associate as empowering and liberating, being conceptual knowledge, is in fact a form of bondage. Is this then not a tremendously disturbing paradox? It is like a man trying to dig himself out of a grave by digging downwards, all while continuously tossing the dirt back onto his head; he is then in fact only burying himself deeper in the grave.


Knowing how something works doesn't spoil the magic, not for me anyway, probably the opposite in fact. The exploration of knowledge should, ideally, begin with understanding of 'self' and the unburdening of those elements that distort your perception. Fear of death, like any fear, will cloud your perception, just as doing 'wrong' will prevent you from sleeping. The better your self knowledge, the better you are able to trust yourself and act without thinking. And death is an inevitability that we must accept, but it doesn't mean it has to be run away from, or towards for that matter.

Death is naught but an adventure that I am in no hurry to embark upon, I far prefer the getting there, so far. And there is so much more to learn and share.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by Irregular
Focusing on the "now" scares the # out of me, because nothing seems real; and at that point, I start to question my own sanity thinking that nothing can be known.

"Nothing" can be "known".
edit on 25-8-2011 by Irregular because: (no reason given)


typo? ,,,'cos |"Nothing" can be "noun".[ but iit s unknown



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 03:15 AM
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In fact, it seems all of our five senses work in this way. When we see something; for instance our spouse or child or friend, do we actually see them or do we merely evoke memories associated with these sights?

What about with the sensation of smelling? Do we actually smell the flower or do we merely evoke memories associated with this smell?

I ask these questions because I wonder if our desire to give meaning to all that we experience inhibits us from actually seeing, smelling, hearing, or feeling the nature of reality as it truly is.


We do both, but for sure we do evoke emotions/memories/feelings..this is how the brain is working, by evoking imprinted thought patterns/memories... Evoking feelings/emotions.

You would hopefully agree that the evoking of memories/emotions (eg. by smelling a flower) is actually RICHER and deeper, a more thorough experience as if we would experience such a sensation the first time *bare* any memories tied to it?

This is "how the nature of reality truly is"



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 04:51 AM
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There is only one knowledge that is worth knowing and that is that i am all knowing. All 'things' are known by the 'not a thing' that i am. No 'thing' can exist prior to 'I'. 'I' and the world appear as one.



posted on Aug, 26 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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All other knowledge are only petty and trivial knowledge; the experience of silence alone is the real and perfect knowledge. - Ramana Maharshi

We, our minds, are conditioned since children to feel separated from our surroundings by society and so we strive to gain knowledge of our environment hoping this will reconnect us with it. But the more we conceptually learn about it, the more we must erroneously conclude that we are intrinsically separated from it. This is true because this form of knowledge reinforces the "I" notion in our heads. "I" understand ecology. "I" understand biology. "I" understand physics and astronomy and chemistry, on and on. Sure, by studying these things I may notice some common qualities and shared links between 'me' and the 'outside world', and this may even help me feel more connected with it, but I will never have the ability to truly BE connected with it as I actually am, as long as I am looking at it from an 'outsiders' perspective. The 'outsiders' perspective is the underlying driver for the desire to accumulate knowledge of the 'external' world, thus the paradox of knowledge.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 04:13 AM
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Im confused by the new agers. Is it 'you' who is typing the above, or some sort of universal spirit?



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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Know this moment for it is the only real thing.
Know Presence.



posted on Aug, 27 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


The problem is with the raising of the scientific method to exalted status as the be all and end all for describing reality, and as a result the human mind has become completely deluded and is hardly able to feel any sense of belonging, in reality itself.

It would be.very funny, if it wasn't so terribly sad.



posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 03:33 AM
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"Nothing" can be "known".


Do you 'know' this to be true?



posted on Sep, 10 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Neo_Serf



"Nothing" can be "known".


Do you 'know' this to be true?


Not sure who stated that, but unless they are redefining these words, this makes no sense. "Nothing" is void of any "thing" (space, energy, time, atoms...), therefore there is no thing to be known. This is also the problem I see with the "something from nothing" model of the universe. For "something" to arise out of "nothing", would entail there to be some outside event influencing causation within this "nothing". However, "nothing" cannot have boundaries, if it did, then it would be something inside of something else, denoting the whole idea of "nothing". Therefore, "nothing" must be an infinite void, which denotes any possibility for "something" to arise from it, even "knowing".

Peace.

PS. Did you study the NAP, in your signature, from Stefan? If so,
He has some great ideas.
edit on 10-9-2011 by LifeIsEnergy because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2011 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by LifeIsEnergy
 


Another way of looking at 'Nothing can be known ' is that no 'thing' can be known. 'Things' can not be known. 'Things', objects can not be experienced. There is experience that can be known, yet experience is not a 'thing'. If you try to experience an object you will find that the object can not be experienced independantly. It is impossible to feel a table with your hand without experiencing 'hand'. When feeling a table we feel table and hand sensation, we can not just feel table. So table (object, 'thing') can not be known.
However, the experience is and it is known. Experience is not a 'thing'. So no 'thing' (experience) can be known. The no thing is knowing itself.
Nothing is the know 'thing'.
edit on 11-9-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




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