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US Constitition ?'s

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posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:21 AM
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I have recently been trying to understand our Constitution. As an American, I feel I have the right to fully understand this and its basis and to know which Amendments still holds firm today. Yes, I have to admit I have been ignorant, I am a 33 year old white male of middle class that has never read or even was curious to read about our constitution until I found ATS. I also no I am not the only one either because I have been asking alot of people I know and I seem to get the same response,"NO why should I read it or Its just the rules on how the United States works" Here is why I am trying to read it, I feel that there are probably alot of things in thier which have never been changed but actually have by politicians and etc. Without the knowledge of us "United States Citizens".

Excuse me all for I just started to read this and have already come up with a few questions I feel need to be addressed.

Article 1 Section2 Clause2:

Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

From reading this above, dosent this mean if you are a Representative of a certain state you shall not reside in that state?

and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Ex. Hillary Clinton lives in NY and is a Representative of NY. OK, now is she breaking a rule in the first Amendment or not?

This next paragraph has really stunned me, but maybe someone with a little more knowledge can help me understand who these other people are.

Article 1 Section 2 Clause 3:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. (See Note 2) The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.


Ok confused, I am who are they refering to as other people in this sentance?

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.[b/]

Thanks for any and all real responses to this as I am finding it all very stimulating but confusing as well.




posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Justmytype

Excuse me all for I just started to read this and have already come up with a few questions I feel need to be addressed.


Ok confused, I am who are they refering to as other people in this sentance?

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Thanks for any and all real responses to this as I am finding it all very stimulating but confusing as well.



They didn't have the courage to say it right out, slaves. That is who they are referring to.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:09 AM
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OK so slaves, Why only 3/5ths of them were accounted for when determinating taxes and Represenatives?

My other question is about Article 1, Section 2, Clause 2: Does anyone have any real true insight on this or am I correct that for example: Hillary Clinton should not be residing in NY for she is a Representative of NY, as stated in this sentance stated in our constitution.


and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen

any insight, thanks.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
Yes, I have to admit I have been ignorant, I am a 33 year old white male of middle class that has never read or even was curious to read about our constitution until I found ATS.


Good for you! It's sort of amazing how many people don't even know the basics! I'll see if I can recommend some commentary sites for you (Wikipedia might be a good one to start with.)




Article 1 Section2 Clause2:

Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen. and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

Ex. Hillary Clinton lives in NY and is a Representative of NY. OK, now is she breaking a rule in the first Amendment or not?

It's all those "nots" -- that was the way they spoke. The Rep has to be a US citizen, 25 years old, and reside in the state that he represents. The Clintons owned a number of properties in various states. Hillary decided that she'd like to live in New York and after becoming a resident (in Texas, it takes six months to establish residency) she was eligible to run for Representative... as is any other citizen who's lived there for that length of time or longer.





Article 1 Section 2 Clause 3:

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Ok confused, I am who are they refering to as other people in this sentance?

That was put in there to appease the states who wanted slaves counted (the South) so that they'd have a lot of votes and those slaves (the North) who didn't want slaves counted (so THEY would have the power.) One type of slave, however, did count as a person and that was the "indentured bondservant."


You'll find the rest of the document rather telling as well -- for instance, it was the founder's intent to ONLY give the vote to those **MEN** who were "free, white, and 21." Everyone else had no political power (and in those days, you weren't considered "white" if you had an ancestor who was Irish or Indian or Black or Hindu or Chinese or... just about anyone except the English. Even Spaniards were suspect.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by Justmytype

Article 1 Section2 Clause2:

Clause 2: No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

From reading this above, dosent this mean if you are a Representative of a certain state you shall not reside in that state?




I'll paraphrase this and perhaps make it clearer:

No person shall be elected who is not 25 years old, a citizen of the US for seven years and a resident of the state for which he is chosen.

Paraphrased another way:

In order to be elected a representative you must be at least 25 y/o, have been a citizen of the US for seven years and be a resident of the state for which you are chosen.

The key to this article and it's phrasing is the "No person who shall not" form, which is almost never used in any context except legal.

I hope this helps.

You should probably take an undergraduate course on the Constitution instead of trying to tackle it on your own. The Constitution is a field of law in itself.



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