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MasterCard profit jumps 33 percent

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posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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Credit cards provide a service, and they charge for their service. I don't see how anyone can complain if they make a profit. You are not obligated to use their service.

If you own a business, you can choose whether you want to accept credit cards or not. Obviously, it's good for you if you DO accept credit cards, because then more people will frequent your business. It's a cost of doing business. Don't you think the credit card companies have expenses related to processing your payment? If you don't accept credit cards, then you will lose customers. It's easy to say the customers should all use cash out of the goodness of their hearts, but these days, people are carrying less cash. You can lose your cash, but if you lose your credit card, you're one phone call away from zero liability, and they will send you another one at no cost to you. I don't WANT to carry a lot of cash. I want convenience. So businesses that accept credit cards will get my business.

If you are a consumer, you can choose whether you want to use credit cards or not. My husband and I rarely carry cash and instead use credit cards with rewards programs. We have redeemed over $1000 in Disney Dollars for a Disney vacation, and now we are saving up for a Carnival cruise using their reward card. Unlike many Americans, we choose to pay off our bill every month, so we do not carry a balance or pay any interest. Using the credit cards is FREE for us, AND we get a perk with the rewards. For those who charge more than they can pay each month, I really don't see how you can blame the credit card company for this. When I had a 10% pay cut last year, I had to spend less money so I could pay my bills. If I had not changed my spending habits, I would be racking up debt...and WHOSE fault would that be? Not the credit card companies, that's for sure.

Why do we keeping blaming the businesses? Even if their profits were up 50%, still, why do we have the right to complain? DON'T USE THEIR SERVICES if you don't like them.

Have we forgotten that the purpose of a business is to make a profit? If it's a publicly held company, stockholders profit. OH, the evil stockholders! Out of curiosity, do you have a retirement account of any type? If so, is it managed by someone else? (meaning you don't personally direct how it is invested...for example, I am in the Teacher Retirement System, and my money just goes right in and I have no say). If you do, guess what...YOU are most likely an "owner" of many of these "evil" corporations, and your retirement account depends on profits earned by these corporations. So when their profits go up, your retirement account goes up.




posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Firstly, SOME of those folks should not have been given loans to begin with if they were unable to prove income and creditworthiness. Due to banking/lending lack of scruples and predatory behavior, they were given loans. Those loans were then bundled up as some kind of crap and sold to others who failed to look at the underwriters' documentation (or just didn't give a rat's ass). Blame the borrower? I think not. In those cases, the lenders are entirely to blame.

Secondly, OTHERS of those folks WERE creditworthy, honest, living within their means and paying on their homes in good faith, and due to the 2008 bank bailout, LOST THEIR JOBS and subsequently were unable to meet their obligations. Should they be foreclosed? Because the market fell out from under them, they lost work, and can now no longer make even the once-reasonable mortgage payments?

How is it you are taking the side of the banking conglomerates? They knew exactly what they were doing, and peddled those bundled high-risk loans to others too lazy to fine-comb the paperwork and verify the odds that those loans would be paid back. In other words, they sold what they knew was CRAP. And those who bought the CRAP are just as much responsible as those who initially ISSUED THE CRAP and then found someone to sell it to.

Sure, there are fraudulent borrowers, and some of them have been booted out of the houses they bought because some loan-shark thought it was entertaining. But there are also dozens of thousands of working families who are no longer able to maintain their previous quality of life.

I say every one of the bankers (and that includes the CEOs who so often claim "what?! my guys did what??!" as though they were oblivious) and the brokers and the buyers of those loans that were CRAP to begin with belong on the streets, jobless, and shunned from society. Not the people who were working paycheck-to-paycheck to put a roof over their heads and their children's heads, food on the table, and eek out a modest quality of life. Those folks should absolutely be held innocent of the entire collapse, and allowed to continue to eek out shelter and a daily meal or two.

I also think there should be a complete MORATORIUM on new building of ANY structures in this entire nation until every existing structure has been either occupied and rehabbed, or dissembled and its pieces used to patch up other buildings that need repairs.

We have far too many empty structures and neglected neighborhoods. The only hope for this planet's population is to recognize how wasteful and disgraceful the tendency to "dispose" of things truly is.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 



Out of curiosity, do you have a retirement account of any type? If so, is it managed by someone else? (meaning you don't personally direct how it is invested...for example, I am in the Teacher Retirement System, and my money just goes right in and I have no say). If you do, guess what...YOU are most likely an "owner" of many of these "evil" corporations, and your retirement account depends on profits earned by these corporations. So when their profits go up, your retirement account goes up.


So, you're a teacher? Yikes. Still perpetuating the myth, I see.

Um, no, out of sincerity and authenticity, I do not have a retirement account of any type, despite the fact that I hold a Master's Degree. I had to liquidate it to help with one of my children's college educations. So, guess what, I AM NOT the "owner" of ANY of these "evil" corporations.

My husband and I are both educated beyond high school and entirely employable, and had every reason to expect we would be enjoying a nice retirement just on saved income. But neither of us is employed, and we are now using our savings to stay in our home, which is in a modest neighborhood (though failry safe and respectable). We drive vehicles for which we paid cash that we had, and we do not use credit cards unless it is an emergency situation.


edit on 3-8-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Firstly, SOME of those folks should not have been given loans to begin with if they were unable to prove income and creditworthiness. Due to banking/lending lack of scruples and predatory behavior, they were given loans. Those loans were then bundled up as some kind of crap and sold to others who failed to look at the underwriters' documentation (or just didn't give a rat's ass). Blame the borrower? I think not. In those cases, the lenders are entirely to blame.


You are exactly right. They should NOT have been given loans. Why were they given loans? Did you know that banks were pressured by Barney Frank and the Democrats to make these loans? The rationale was that poor people were being discriminated against by the stringent mortgage quirements of the times, and we must relax these requirements so more Americans could get into housing. That one falls squarely on the backs of the Democrats, my friend.

Although, I will add that we were offered one of those crazy no interest adjustable loans with an insanely low payment. The broker said that's what he had, and if we were smart, we would take it too. So I researched the Libor (which is what these loans were tied to) and decided NO THANKS, it was too risky. I actually don't think that broker was trying to deceive me; he actually felt it was a great mortgage product. You see how that worked out for people, however.


Secondly, OTHERS of those folks WERE creditworthy, honest, living within their means and paying on their homes in good faith, and due to the 2008 bank bailout, LOST THEIR JOBS and subsequently were unable to meet their obligations. Should they be foreclosed? Because the market fell out from under them, they lost work, and can now no longer make even the once-reasonable mortgage payments?


Yep, that is crappy. If either my husband or I lost our jobs, we would be in trouble quickly with our mortgage as well. I've thought about it, and I know we would lose the house if that happened. We would then have no choice but to rent a smaller house or apartment. And you know what? We wouldn't die. We would make it. So I don't worry about losing our jobs, because we will be FINE no matter what. We'd do whatever we needed to do to survive.



Sure, there are fraudulent borrowers, and some of them have been booted out of the houses they bought because some loan-shark thought it was entertaining. But there are also dozens of thousands of working families who are no longer able to maintain their previous quality of life.


Why is it necessary for people to maintain an artificially high quality of life that they couldn't afford in the first place? 50 years ago people lived quite happily in smaller homes. Aren't people always wishing for simpler times? Our quality of life recently decreased because I got a 10% pay cut last year, and we have had to cut out a lot of extras. I know that's not as bad as a lot of people have it, and I'm not arguing it is, but no one is guaranteed that their quality of life will not have to change from year to year.



I also think there should be a complete MORATORIUM on new building of ANY structures in this entire nation until every existing structure has been either occupied and rehabbed, or dissembled and its pieces used to patch up other buildings that need repairs.

We have far too many empty structures and neglected neighborhoods. The only hope for this planet's population is to recognize how wasteful and disgraceful the tendency to "dispose" of things truly is.



I also hate seeing empty structures, like when Wal-Mart or another big box store builds a new store and leaves the old one vacant. I also hate to see neighborhoods decaying because of empty houses.

HOWEVER, we absolutely can't solve the problem by legislating some sort of building moratorium. As long as there is a market for new houses, builders should be allowed to keep building them. After all, if people quit buying them, then the builders will have to quit building them.

Do you REALIZE what economic implications a moratorium on building would have on the nation? Think about all of the people who build the houses, who sell the houses, who make the construction materials used to build the houses...the ripple effect would be huge, and who knows what kind of economic catastrophe that would cause?



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 08:35 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


So some idiots really don't learn? I mean really, still using credit cards??? WHAT??? Are people nuts or is it just that most are on drugs of some sort nowadays??? Is it the flouride in the water really making people retarded???
I don't understand this not one bit.

edit on 3-8-2011 by ldyserenity because: spelling



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 



So, you're a teacher? Yikes. Still perpetuating the myth, I see.


What do you mean by that? I'd like for you to be more specific with your criticism. I'm an excellent teacher. I teach children to think for themselves and not just take my (or anyone else's) word for things.


Um, no, out of sincerity and authenticity, I do not have a retirement account of any type, despite the fact that I hold a Master's Degree. I had to liquidate it to help with one of my children's college educations. So, guess what, I AM NOT the "owner" of ANY of these "evil" corporations.

My husband and I are both educated beyond high school and entirely employable, and had every reason to expect we would be enjoying a nice retirement just on saved income. But neither of us is employed, and we are now using our savings to stay in our home, which is in a modest neighborhood (though failry safe and respectable). We drive vehicles for which we paid cash that we had, and we do not use credit cards unless it is an emergency situation.


edit on 3-8-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


But you DID have a retirement account....and I assume you still WOULD if you hadn't decided to spend it on your child's education? So are you morally superior to your old self now that you no longer have one?

Also, you did not have to liquidate it to pay for your child's education. I know you love your children and want what's best for them, but that was a foolish decision for you to make. I had student loans for college (which I paid off) and my children would get student loans as well before I would consider sacrificing my retirement for their college education. It's either that or I'd be living with them when I am old and out of money...I personally think they'd thank you for being financially secure yourself rather than spending it on college for them. Kids appreciate college more when THEY have to make the sacrifices for it.



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 09:38 PM
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"demolishing homes" ?
It sounds like they have Big plans to build on the land.
and this is a good way to get them out.
what is going to be built on the land??



posted on Aug, 3 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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Just cut up your cards today and quit using them. I did years ago. I'm certainly not rich and I often do without. If I don't have cash to buy something I can't afford it. Even things like "12 months, no interest." Don't fall for it. Pay cash or don't buy it.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 


Georgia Girl,
Not sure if you realized you replied to my post on the lenders and borrowers in a supportive way. Except for the moratorium on building, you agreed with me.

You asked me to explain my "yikes" to your being a teacher. I respectfully comply:

I think it is extraordinary and commendable that you are teaching young people to think for themselves. That in itself makes you a superior teacher. No quibble at all. I also taught my kids (my own two, and the countless students with whom I have interacted as a teacher and counselor) to think critically.

My eldest (the one who I liquidated my tiny little savings account to help) won a nearly full-ride scholarship due to her high school performance, and just graduated from Northwestern University with departmental honors in Material Science Engineering. I chose to use the money to assist her so that she would not have to borrow excessively (she already has borrowed more than I owed for my Master's loans). I did not pay for her education. I contributed $5000. Big whoop.

I agree that college is more appreciated by those who work their way through it, and she has worked while studying. She is also the only of her social and academic circles who is self-sufficient.

I live in a quality-built small home that is 70 years old, in a moderate neighborhood.

The issue I have is that you advocate the lending/borrowing system and the disposable mindset of modern consumerism. There was a time in the not-too-distant past when people DID live within their means, borrowed only when they absolutely had to, and paid the loans off quickly. Those days are over in terms of the "typical" family.

Now, MOST households live on credit, and want to live beyond their means. That is ill-thought materialism and vanity, IMO.

As for the moratorium, what about reuse-recyle? There are buildings empty that were built of materials that could be dismantled and REUSED. The construction industry would have plenty to do. Neighborhoods that were rehabilitated -- rather than being left to rot among high weeds and meth-labs -- would reduce urban blight and ghost-town areas. Any builder worth his salt should be able to remodel and repair and retrofit a solidly built structure -- but instead they are buying up multiple acres of suburban open space and slapping new, identical (or nearly so), quickly built houses out of cheap materials up over a month, and then peddling them.

WHY do we need more buildings? We have enough buildings. We need to use what we have, not build new stuff just to keep companies going. There is plenty of work to do that does not entail destroying more green space and forests just so Jack and Jill can have a "new" house made of sticks and drywall built by cheap labor teams using plastic plumbing and aluminum wires. What happened to quality? My house is built better, with stone, oak, copper wiring and plumbing throughout, stucco/plaster walls and good air flow, and has enormous trees surrounding it. The exposure is situated to take max advantage of the sun's position, and has all of the amenities we need. If someone were to offer me a $300,000 home in one of the new 'burbs in a straight trade, I'd laugh in their face. My home is valued at a fraction of that (keeping my taxes lower), with vastly more structural integrity and character, and 100% more efficient landscaping than a tall beige place with two puny dogwoods plunked next to the driveway.

I would say "to each his own", but it is clear to me that the never-ending consumption of materials and land, and the practice of burying refuse and "old stuff" in mass graves is NOT a sustainable, wise, or prudent manner of living. And bankers who rub their pasty palms together while tempting those who have been indoctrinated to "demand the best" yet can't afford the lifestyle to which they aspire are, simply put, taking advantage of those people.

You sound as though you are very much a capitalist and believe in the system as it is. That is your right, of course. I simply choose not to buy into it. Reuse. Recycle. Renew. Make do with what one has.

I think we probably agree on some things. On others it is clear we do not. I do not believe in "banking" as a money-making industry.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be."



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 03:30 AM
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I quit using mine last year and they are almost paid off ive closed 2 of my accounts. It's a suckers game folks. Might as well just fly to las vegas and throw your money away there at least you will get a trip and a free meal.

edit on 4-8-2011 by professornurbs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 05:35 AM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 


Georgia Girl,
Not sure if you realized you replied to my post on the lenders and borrowers in a supportive way. Except for the moratorium on building, you agreed with me.

You asked me to explain my "yikes" to your being a teacher. I respectfully comply:

I think it is extraordinary and commendable that you are teaching young people to think for themselves. That in itself makes you a superior teacher. No quibble at all. I also taught my kids (my own two, and the countless students with whom I have interacted as a teacher and counselor) to think critically.

My eldest (the one who I liquidated my tiny little savings account to help) won a nearly full-ride scholarship due to her high school performance, and just graduated from Northwestern University with departmental honors in Material Science Engineering. I chose to use the money to assist her so that she would not have to borrow excessively (she already has borrowed more than I owed for my Master's loans). I did not pay for her education. I contributed $5000. Big whoop.

I agree that college is more appreciated by those who work their way through it, and she has worked while studying. She is also the only of her social and academic circles who is self-sufficient.

I live in a quality-built small home that is 70 years old, in a moderate neighborhood.

The issue I have is that you advocate the lending/borrowing system and the disposable mindset of modern consumerism. There was a time in the not-too-distant past when people DID live within their means, borrowed only when they absolutely had to, and paid the loans off quickly. Those days are over in terms of the "typical" family.

Now, MOST households live on credit, and want to live beyond their means. That is ill-thought materialism and vanity, IMO.

As for the moratorium, what about reuse-recyle? There are buildings empty that were built of materials that could be dismantled and REUSED. The construction industry would have plenty to do. Neighborhoods that were rehabilitated -- rather than being left to rot among high weeds and meth-labs -- would reduce urban blight and ghost-town areas. Any builder worth his salt should be able to remodel and repair and retrofit a solidly built structure -- but instead they are buying up multiple acres of suburban open space and slapping new, identical (or nearly so), quickly built houses out of cheap materials up over a month, and then peddling them.

WHY do we need more buildings? We have enough buildings. We need to use what we have, not build new stuff just to keep companies going. There is plenty of work to do that does not entail destroying more green space and forests just so Jack and Jill can have a "new" house made of sticks and drywall built by cheap labor teams using plastic plumbing and aluminum wires. What happened to quality? My house is built better, with stone, oak, copper wiring and plumbing throughout, stucco/plaster walls and good air flow, and has enormous trees surrounding it. The exposure is situated to take max advantage of the sun's position, and has all of the amenities we need. If someone were to offer me a $300,000 home in one of the new 'burbs in a straight trade, I'd laugh in their face. My home is valued at a fraction of that (keeping my taxes lower), with vastly more structural integrity and character, and 100% more efficient landscaping than a tall beige place with two puny dogwoods plunked next to the driveway.

I would say "to each his own", but it is clear to me that the never-ending consumption of materials and land, and the practice of burying refuse and "old stuff" in mass graves is NOT a sustainable, wise, or prudent manner of living. And bankers who rub their pasty palms together while tempting those who have been indoctrinated to "demand the best" yet can't afford the lifestyle to which they aspire are, simply put, taking advantage of those people.

You sound as though you are very much a capitalist and believe in the system as it is. That is your right, of course. I simply choose not to buy into it. Reuse. Recycle. Renew. Make do with what one has.

I think we probably agree on some things. On others it is clear we do not. I do not believe in "banking" as a money-making industry.

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be."





I think we DO agree on many things, just not about how to get there. I live in a house that was built in the 40s, and did not move out to the suburbs where "everyone" lives in their cookie cutter houses. I don't like the way builders throw them up, all alike, without character, so I don't buy that type of house. But I think they are within their rights to create any type of product people want, and if people want new houses, there they are. My old house requires a lot more maintenance than a new house. Even though we have replaced windows and insulated, we still don't get the energy efficiency of a new house. When I visit my friends in their shiny new homes, I do envy some of the newness...not enough to make me want to live there, but I understand the draw. No, I wouldn't trade my house either.

I do not think that using credit cards necessarily means that you live beyond your means. We do not. I think there are many people like me who pay credit cards off every month. The ONLY things we pay interest on are our mortgage and 1 of our cars. We can't call credit cards "bad" just because some people can't manage them properly. It's like making alcohol illegal because some people are alcoholics. Or outlawing fast food because some people are overweight. I'd rather be FREE and have the chance to make my own mistakes than "taken care of" by the government and lose my freedoms.

And WHY in the world would banks be in business if not to make money? I sincerely do not understand the sentiment that businesses should exist for OUR benefit, not for their own.

There is room in capitalism for people to reduce, reuse, and recycle! Look at all of the businesses that have sprung up around the green movement. Our school sends all of our Capri Sun pouches to a company that makes them into something else (and they pay the school for the pouches.) Capitalism at work!

Capitalism and sustainable living are NOT always enemies.



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 07:09 AM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 

It's commendable that you are able to maintain your credit and use your cards wisely. However, people who fall upon hard times may not have any other choice than to spiral deeper into debt. There are tons of people out there suffering. The media has chosen not to focus on those stories, so if you are not one of those unfortunate folks, then you are most likely insulated and not aware. They lose their job because the large corporation they work for decides to outsource... They lose their benefits and health insurance... They are hospitalized, and a $40,000 bill can happen in a flash... Then they somehow have to come up with $800 a month to pay for prescriptions... Payments for necessary things begin to go on the cards, because their savings is now depleted. One late payment to one credit card, and the downward spiral begins. The interest rate jumps, the late fee eats most of what can be paid toward the balance, and so on... you get the idea.

We've been living in a society that conditions people to live beyond their means and everywhere we look - everywhere we go - we are encouraged, if not sometimes baited, into consuming. So, naturally, many people have followed that path. But others are simply in a bad place with no way out, and the practices of the credit card companies and banks only serve to dig them into a hopeless, never-ending hole. What has been happening is not Capitalism. Capitalism implies that there is competition, but all we've had for the past decade is the illusion of choice. If you have very little choice, your chances of carving out a modest, sustainable living is slim.

RE: Empty buildings... so many structures that have popped up in the past decade are literally cheap pieces of crap, thanks to greedy developers. I'd actually encourage much of it to come down so smarter, better, more logical structures that are meant to last can rise in their place.

edit on 8/4/2011 by HolographicPrincipal because: add more blathering



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 


Yes, and those points you get for "free" are being paid for by those businesses. If your business does not accept them, you are tempting fate as to whether you will stay in business or not. I believe in capitalism, I do not believe in thievery or extortion. My bank does not charge me to accept checks, so why should a piece of plastic? They are double dipping, and the average consumer does not realize this. What other business gets away with this?

As for a mortgage, why should I have to repay double what is borrowed? It amounts to legal loan sharking. I have a mortgage because I have to. But I do pay extra on principal so I can limit how much they are bleeding from me. If you really want to bring the financial system to it's knees, every US citizen should file for bankruptcy on the same day. Completely wipe out all debt. Now we the people would be in charge, not them!



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 



And WHY in the world would banks be in business if not to make money? I sincerely do not understand the sentiment that businesses should exist for OUR benefit, not for their own.


Here, my dear, you've found the line at which our boot toes meet. A bank is a repository, a place where people felt they could put their cash that was well-protected and beyond the reach of thieves and highwaymen. That is certainly a good service, a benefit, so people have somewhere secure to keep their "wealth" (paltry as it may be).

To have someone hired to look after it, a guard and a banker, is appropriate. At a modest wage. The banker - the one who gets your money out of the vault when you come in - should not be paid better than the guards...au contraire....the guard is the one more valuable. And the banker should absolutely NOT be allowed to USE your money to MAKE MORE MONEY (if you deposit $100, then you should expect that any moment you walk in your entire $100 is there to withdraw as you see fit). But in a world where the banker can use $90 of your money to lend out to someone else and charge INTEREST on it, and there would only be $10 of yours available when you walk in, HOW IS THAT RIGHT?

If anything, YOU should earn the money they charge in interest for lending YOUR money to someone (especially without your explicit consent!)

Now think for a moment. How much do you suppose the guards - the uniformed, armed guards on duty at your local bank - are paid? Mmm, in my area, around $25,000/year if they're lucky. How much does the BANKER make? By using YOUR earned and saved money to lend to others at his own discretion and without informing you? You do know how the Great Depression started, right?

Do you know what would happen if today, before noon, everyone who uses your bank and you went there, got in line, and said "I want all of my money right now!". It would be chaos. Because for every $100 there is only $10, possibly $15 in the bank. And that's okay with you? All you get is, "Sorry. Yeah, the guy I lent it to skipped out. Oh well. Would you care to make a deposit today?"

Money is a tool, a bartering tool. It is not, and should not be a "marketable commodity."

As for businesses being in existence for US? Absolutely. A business should offer a service to its customers. Massage, tailoring, ditch-digging, brick-laying, child-care, nursing, rooms to let, meals, ale, dry goods, cars, shoeshines, whatever. Whatever people feel they want to trade their earned dollars for, that makes their life the quality they prefer, as LONG AS THEY CAN PAY FOR IT.

Same thing applies to insurance as to banking. It's supposed to be where people pool in a little money in a common place - a coffee can, say - so that if someone in the pool needs a hand, there's a jointly held bit of liquid cash available. The group agrees to pay for Jack's needed leg-cast or to help his house be repaired of fire damage, because they all know that the pool of people would have their back if something happened to them.

It was not intended to make the person holding the coffee can rich by spending it, lending it at will, and then when Jack comes and says "My house burned down!" they say "Oh, crap. Sucks to be you. Sorry, we don't pay for fires caused by lightning. And furthermore, we don't want any more of your money in the pool. You're too inclined to be hit by lightning. You suck. Go away."

Do you honestly NOT see how corrupt it is?
How is it any different from extortion, racketeering, loan-sharking, blackmailing, and outright theft? As for the stock market, gods help me, what a load of fictitious bean-counting crap! Longs, shorts, speculation, dividends. All artificial. All gambling. And much of it fixed.

I'm all for healthy competition between small business providers.

If I can sew a dress better than Sue next door, and quicker, I might be able to charge a little more. But Sue will find people who need one in the future and who don't really care if the seams are straight and bound. She can sell to them. But if either of us has a customer wearing a dress we made walk in and says "the back seam split out while I was at my wedding, and my shiny arse was showing during my vows, and all of our guests laughed and my groom left me standing there!", we should be held accountable for that. The bride had a right to what she paid for - a wedding dress that was well enough constructed to stay sewn together during her ceremony!

If Hepsibah grows peaches that are 4" in diameter, and Milton's are only 2.5", then Hepsibah is entitled to a little more than Milton for the quantity of peach she is offering. But if Milton's are better quality, i.e. juicier, softer, and bilght-free, then you can pay Milton more for his juicier smaller, peaches. Up to you. Making a pie for your sweetheart? Go to Milton's. Canning for your despised mother-in-law? Go to Hepsibah's. Up to you.

THAT is healthy competition.
THAT is capitalism.

Using other people's money to get rich, or alternatively TRYING to get rich and LOSING other people's money because you were gambling with it in the first place, is inherently WRONG, in my opinion. It's a con-man's game. And then turning around and saying "Oh, shucks, that $100 you deposited with me? Yeah, I lost it. Sorry. Was trying to beat Slim at cards, but his hand was better. Sorry. Dang he has a good poker face! I need to practice that. Would you like to hand me some more of your savings? I got a seat at the game with him later today!"

Hope I've made myself clear.

Have a great day, Georgia Girl!




edit on 4-8-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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Just a little side bar since the topic of debit and credit cards is afoot; its far far safer to carry plastic than cash. If someone comes up to you and sticks a gun your face demanding your cash you are screwed, you will more than likely never see a single cent of that money back. If they do that with a credit or debit card you can have it cancelled with a phone call or in the event you don't catch it before they start spending (such as pickpockets) you can usually get the charges reversed and your account put back to the way it is. Another reason people are probably going to be hesitant to quit using plastic for purchases is because online stores have become so prevalent and its far easier to use a card there then attempt to feed dollar bills into your cd drive :p



posted on Aug, 4 2011 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


These companies are certainly exploitative, in just about every sense. For example the justification for much of the fees is layed against "technology infrastructure". The truth is that the way they account for major infrastructure purchases with accelerated depreciation they take significant tax benefits from those purchases. In addition, much of that infrastructure is off-shore in any event. They make money on the infrastructure, yet they will testify that the fees cover the costs. When these tools testify before Congress on this and spit out the technology bit, I wait for a member of Congress to simply ask for the depreciation schedules to prove that they are lying. Simple question, yet they never ask it.

That being said, using the benefits of the cards is smart, if you can be wise about it. I have not carried a balance over more than a couple of times in the past several years. I just don't spend what I can't afford, but use the card for everything to get the miles. I've bought new cars on credit cards, pay my taxes, buy a pack of smokes, everything. I've not paid for airfare in a couple of years.

They are exploitative, but you can exploit them if you're smart about it.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by GeorgiaGirl
 


Yes, and those points you get for "free" are being paid for by those businesses. If your business does not accept them, you are tempting fate as to whether you will stay in business or not. I believe in capitalism, I do not believe in thievery or extortion. My bank does not charge me to accept checks, so why should a piece of plastic? They are double dipping, and the average consumer does not realize this. What other business gets away with this?

As for a mortgage, why should I have to repay double what is borrowed? It amounts to legal loan sharking. I have a mortgage because I have to. But I do pay extra on principal so I can limit how much they are bleeding from me. If you really want to bring the financial system to it's knees, every US citizen should file for bankruptcy on the same day. Completely wipe out all debt. Now we the people would be in charge, not them!


Sigh. Yes, I know that the perks I get for "free" are paid for by the businesses that take my credit cards. Yes, the credit card company makes money every time they process a payment for a business. But the BUSINESS also sells their products for a profit. Everyone profits. It's a BUSINESS. Credit cards are a business. Stores are a business.

As for the mortgage comments....I hardly know where to begin with that one. The bank is giving you a LOT of money, and they are giving it to you for usually 30 YEARS. They have a risk involved. You pay interest on the amount you borrow. It's not a scam. It's not loan sharking, or even close. Interest rates are EXTREMELY low right now...I guess you are not old enough to remember what they were in the 70's and 80s. I'm not either, but I know when we bought our first house in 1993 the rate was just under 9%, and our realtor was going on and on about how affordable that was compared to what they had been. Now my rate is under 5%, so you can see how much rates have come down.

You say you have a mortgage because you have to. I call bologna on that one. You do not have to take out a loan from a bank. You could save up your money until you have enough for a house and then pay for it. Wait a minute...you don't WANT to wait that long? Well, lucky for you, there is a bank that is willing to lend you the money.

I am so TIRED of all of the people who are COMPLAINING about every little thing as being theft and immoral. Yes, there are some crooks in the higher levels at banks and big businesses, and yes, the government has made some shady deals and bailed out their buddies. Complain about the crooks and the shady deals all day long.

HOWEVER, when you complain about the mere fact that a mortgage comes with interest, you sound like someone who isn't mature enough to get a mortgage. When you say that a credit card company is "getting away" with something because they charge a FEE to the stores that want to accept their cards, you sound very naive.

I know that there is a lot of corruption in America. I blame the politicians (BOTH PARTIES) and their cronies. But there are some legitimate business practices being knocked all over this thread, and it is just ridiculous.

You advocate everyone walking away from their debt? Debt that THEY ENTERED INTO??? What gives everyone the right to run up a lot of debt and then say, "sorry! I was just kidding about paying that back!"

With attitudes like yours, it is no wonder the country is failing. Now we don't even want to pay interest to borrow money...I guess we just want someone to GIVE it to us for free.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 05:12 PM
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credits great if you have the money to pay them off but way too many people just get a credit card and start spending meh so what whats 50 a month and then comes the addiction.

nobody says you have to get credit cards but too many people of the instant gratification crowd of i want it now and i dont care how.

that covers quite of few people credit is nothing but turning yourself into a slave and it works back in the day when americans wanted something they would either save and work more or sacrifice to get what they want and ended up with something paid off and earned on their own.

thats is one of the biggest problems in american this day i have zero debt and i prefer to keep it that way youll be surprised at how free you will really feel..

pt barnum once said theres a sucker born every minute and credit cards count on it i say dont give them the satisfaction or your cash.

the reason mastercards rise in profit is because of a weak economy and people robbing peter to pay paul meanign more people are become more reliant on credit which is counter productive.

people if your going to get credit cards and use them get the insurance that pays them off if you get sick get fired or lose your jobs. please do that.
edit on 5-8-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


It sounds like you'd be much happier in a local credit union.

I couldn't give a fig about how much money the bank earns. I would love to see EVERY business in America make a huge profit this year. When that happens, the economy goes up, which is what we all need to see happen.

Either the whole system is going to come crashing down, or it's not. However, it's not because the banks and credit card companies are making a profit that we are in trouble. No, we are in trouble because our country is on a wild spending spree that we can't afford. Also, the politicians of both parties are making decisions based on whether it helps them get reelected, not what's best for America

Here it is in perspective:
"If the US Government was a family, they would be making $58,000 a year, they spend $75,000 a year, & are $327,000 in credit card debt. They are currently proposing BIG spending cuts to reduce their spending to $72,000 a year. These are the actual proportions of the federal budget & debt, reduced to a level that we can understand."

I didn't write that, but I got it off of my brother's Facebook wall. I haven't crunched the numbers myself, and yes, they could be wrong. But I think it's still a great analogy of what a mess we are in as a nation.



posted on Aug, 5 2011 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
credits great if you have the money to pay them off but way too many people just get a credit card and start spending meh so what whats 50 a month and then comes the addiction.

nobody says you have to get credit cards but too many people of the instant gratification crowd of i want it now and i dont care how.

that covers quite of few people credit is nothing but turning yourself into a slave and it works back in the day when americans wanted something they would either save and work more or sacrifice to get what they want and ended up with something paid off and earned on their own.

thats is one of the biggest problems in american this day i have zero debt and i prefer to keep it that way youll be surprised at how free you will really feel..

edit on 5-8-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


I agree with everything you said here. But you can't blame the credit cards for the fault people are weak.




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