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Are You Openminded?

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posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I have a hard time believing their intentions are peaceful...they abduct us (meaning without our permission) perform painful experiments on us, impregnate female abducties, then steal their infants from them....none of this sounds peaceful to me.


With that in mind....do you think that it's possible that the gov't coverup is for our own good, instead of the popular notion that they are just trying to keep control over us?




posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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Wow, this is a very good thread. Some interesting ideas.

I'm one of the open minded sceptics (sort of). I wouldn't try to dispute the existence of EBE's, but don't fully believe the idea as I've seen no proof positive. In other words, I want to believe but need to be convinced


Sooooo. IF they exist, and IF they have been visiting, then irrespective of whether any gov't or military bods have made first contact, they will have evidence of some description, won't they? Be it undisputed good quality photo's, debris from a crash, captured ship or whatever.

Are they likely to share it with the likes of you and me?? Nope. Either because they don't have enough evidence to say what they are dealing with. Maybe because they don't want the human race to panic en masse. Perhaps each gov't has bits and pieces of evidence which is traded internationally in order to build a complete picture. Whatever the reason (IF any!), we will not be told until they are ready for us to know!

No matter how convincing some of the "evidence" is that is frequently released online. No matter how plausible the credentials of any whistle blower. IF the gov't, intelligence or military people don't want us to know the Truth, they will continue to spread mis and disinformation. They will always debunk the ordinary people with the real evidence and make them a laughing stock in the eyes of the general population.

Oh yes, boards like this and other online communities will thrive. We will continue to try and find the Truth, whatever it may be. But, think about the opinion most average people have of UFO enthusiasts or conspiracy buffs? They think we are mostly crazy or eccentric at best. We have little or no credibility, because we do a really good job of destroying it ourselves.

So what about the Mexico footage? Let's take that as an example. IF it were the Truth. IF this was the REAL thing. Who cares? We do. The gov't do. The military do. But Joe Public couldn't give a toss because it's the "UFO Community" who are saying it's the REAL thing, NOT the gov't. As we are all mad. The public at large just think "yep, another weird film of supposed UFO's....and?".

Maybe I'm wrong. Just maybe there is NOTHING out there. Maybe the gov't IS telling the truth (Hmmmm) for once and they don't have anything concrete to tell us.

I don't know. I live in hope that one day soon we'll know the Truth. In the meantime, I'll keep reading these forums and lie awake at night worrying


Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:42 AM
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So, could you say that it's possible the gov't actually has our best interest in mind while attempting to keep thier existence a secret?


Yes and no.

Here's an analogy.

A serial killer is on the loose, and the police seem powerless to catch him. But, miraculously, anyone in the press who tries to bring it up, is laughed out of the room. The police don't want the public to panic, so they don't tell the public. Is this a good thing?

In my opinion....NO. I'd rather know the facts, know the risks, and know what we're up against, if against them, or at least know that we aren't alone.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 10:57 AM
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The U.S. government has been known to use "lies by omission" in order to obfuscate the truth. I no longer believe the face value of what they have to say about a subject.

I used to think that "UFOs are not a threat to national security" meant "Those things which you are calling UFOs are not a threat to national security."

Now, if they say "UFOs are not a threat to national security", I wonder if that really means "Vehicles of extraterrestial origin have been identified thus there are no UFOs that would be a threat to national security."

But even if that statement meant what I used to think it meant, it should be noted that "national security" is not the same as "personal liberty". So, UFOs could be a threat to "personal liberty" while not being a threat to "national security".

.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

So, could you say that it's possible the gov't actually has our best interest in mind while attempting to keep thier existence a secret?


Yes and no.

Here's an analogy.

A serial killer is on the loose, and the police seem powerless to catch him. But, miraculously, anyone in the press who tries to bring it up, is laughed out of the room. The police don't want the public to panic, so they don't tell the public. Is this a good thing?

In my opinion....NO. I'd rather know the facts, know the risks, and know what we're up against, if against them, or at least know that we aren't alone.


I agree. And while I'm saying that it may be possible that the gov't has our best interest in mind, it doesn't mean that they would be right to still keep the info from us. Just that in thier minds they think they are doing the right thing by not causing (again, in thier mind) unnecessary panic. Of course I'd like to have our gov't admit to the existence of ET life, even if they have the evidence to suggest they are hostile towards us. Who knows, maybe someday we'll have color codes for the alien threats as we do for the terrorist threats today



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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You know how far evolved we are ... LoL ... HA HA HA ... I mean we can't even make viruses go away without injecting something into your body has anyone ever thought about maybe just walking through a room of some kinda of Gas or Some chemical ... I have a theory kinda ... ok so sit back ... Everything in this world has a positive and a negative a little bit of anything is good Criticism , Negativism lol .. not sure if that is a word but any how you get the point ... being sick isn't good but if your body never got sick then its anti bodies would not build up and as your got older when they stopped building up yuou would be more prone to getting sick faster. I mean arguments are good not alot of them but if wife and husbands never fought then they would never be able to make up and get to know each other better and become closer to one another. Well as in anythign if you have to much pride it can hurt you although pride is good ... it is good to be funny but who wants to be told a joke during a movie ... My point is I think that there are chemicals or some kind of something that would attract the virus aids ... and certain other Diaseases ... what if this is true what if you put a large amount of thie chemical outside of the body would the diasease spread to it leaving behind a trail or would it gravitate to it like metal paper clips to a magnet /????OH yeah ... back to what I was talkin about before These aliens have figured out most likely how to live longer possibly not polluting ther own land and ozone .... maybe only breathing oxygen pure and making there bodies AND more importantly MInds last longer .. I mean I see peoples bodies that would make it a while but they lose thier minds or get alzheimers ... or what not you ... oh yeah I think I know what causes alzheimers it is quite simple ... the patients have been doing something for a long amount of time such as taking care of somebody or doing the same routine for years and years and years and one day thier husband dies or they move or something catastrophis happens or not so catastrophic just a change and changes their daily routine ... well when this happens their minds telling them to get up eery morning wash there teeth there and take a shower get up go here ... well that imprints in our minds and something that imprints in our mind that is stuck there that is trying to be erased is almost like a disk ... if you delete something off of this liek a 4 mb picture and try to put a 6 mb picture in its place without formatting it ... then it will cause errors ... Also liek our brain anyways ... tell me what you think PEACE



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by mpeake

Originally posted by LadyV
I have a hard time believing their intentions are peaceful...they abduct us (meaning without our permission) perform painful experiments on us, impregnate female abducties, then steal their infants from them....none of this sounds peaceful to me.


With that in mind....do you think that it's possible that the gov't coverup is for our own good, instead of the popular notion that they are just trying to keep control over us?


Honestly, I think it's a combination of the two...I have always thoguht this.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by mpeake

Originally posted by LadyV
I have a hard time believing their intentions are peaceful...they abduct us (meaning without our permission) perform painful experiments on us, impregnate female abducties, then steal their infants from them....none of this sounds peaceful to me.


With that in mind....do you think that it's possible that the gov't coverup is for our own good, instead of the popular notion that they are just trying to keep control over us?


Honestly, I think it's a combination of the two...I have always thoguht this.


I agree, the combo of the 2 is the most likely scenerio. I would imagine there are several factions of gov't agencies involved in the coverup. Some who have our best interest in mind, and some who only fear losing the control they have over us.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:29 PM
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It's really quite a redundant thing that could be happening. The gov't covering up the ET esistence to keep us from being taken over by hostile aliens who's intent is to enslave the humans and use up our own natural resources. And at the same time we are doing the same thing to ourselves. It's like were saying "Hey, leave us alone, we're doing a good enough job of enslaving mankind and depleting the earth's resources without you".


Funny thing you say this. I was just thinking about something on those terms over lunch.

So many concepts and ideas to this conundrum, damn it would be nice to know what is really going on, but than again perhaps ignorance is bliss as they say. What an ironic thing to say, considering this site motto.

Still than I think if they have been around so long couldn't they have enslaved us ages ago? But who knows, perhaps this is one big test to see humanitys resolve and rationality.

Yeah, the abduction thing is disturbing perhaps they don't understand how traumatic is for us to undergo such a things. Especially if their impregnating human women. But maybe for them its survival, they have no choice. What would we do if our species was dying? Still though, these adduction stories bother me.



[edit on C:Tueocu08e8 by Opus]



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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However than theres the human factor. Heck I fear we're on the eve of the Orwellian hell, with Industry putting a price tag on everything (one day human reproduction ). Government/Industry monitoring and controlling everything (one day our very thoughts). I'm more concerned about The human factor. I'm sickened at the concept of humanity evolving towards a hive mentality.



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:49 PM
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im not in the mood to post my wealth of knowlage on aliens today.

but can i just say to mpeake

boondock saints is one of my fav films!!!

(cool avtar)



posted on Aug, 17 2004 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by TrentReznor
im not in the mood to post my wealth of knowlage on aliens today.

but can i just say to mpeake

boondock saints is one of my fav films!!!

(cool avtar)


Definitely!!! Like they say in the movie, if each city had a couple of guys like them, the world would be a better place!



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Opus
However than theres the human factor. Heck I fear we're on the eve of the Orwellian hell, with Industry putting a price tag on everything (one day human reproduction ). Government/Industry monitoring and controlling everything (one day our very thoughts). I'm more concerned about The human factor. I'm sickened at the concept of humanity evolving towards a hive mentality.


I whollly agree with you Opus. I live in the UK and we are getting closer and closer to an Orwellian system every year. Our gov't is obsessed by having CCTV on every street corner, supposedly for our safety! Riiiiight. Then there's the push to bring in national ID cards. Again, safety against terrorism etc. etc. RFID will be coming at some point. We can bitch about it all we like, but as many people just cannot be bothered doing anything more than moan, it WILL happen.

Once all these things coming into play, we have effectively lost whatever freedom we currently have.

So, back onto the original subject... I think if our governments had info about alien intelligence, then we will NOT be told unless there's a very good reason for them to do so.

Let's suppose they do have something to tell us. With the current way in which our society works, they wouldn't dare spring this revelation on us because their control over our daily lives isn't strong enough yet. Once this Orwellian system (or similar) is in place, they can say and do what the hell they like. It won't matter because we will have been so apathetic when it really mattered that we'll have no power left as citizens.

Paranoid? Perhaps. However, one only has to look at a few websites regarding such subjects as gov't policies on privacy, the nanny state, CCTV, RFID, ID cards, Carnivore, Echelon and other projects to see that our independence, privacy and freedom are slowly, but inevitably being whittled away.

It scares the hell out of me!

Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:44 AM
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In all our sci-fi programmes Star Trek......... one of the prime directives is always
- Do not interfere with other species - as you cannot forsee results.

Why should any alien culture be different?



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 02:56 AM
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Originally posted by LadyV
I have a hard time believing their intentions are peaceful...they abduct us (meaning without our permission) perform painful experiments on us, impregnate female abducties, then steal their infants from them....none of this sounds peaceful to me.



Originally posted by Gazrok
(...)
In doing this, there are some things I've come to believe.

1. Forces within the government are conspiring to keep alien visitation a secret from the public.
2. They likewise are keeping any interactions with the aliens a secret.
3. The aliens in general do not have benign interests towards us, and do not have our welfare in mind. This is noted most by the numerous unauthorized abductions that take place.
4. We have developed at least some counters to their technology.
5. Either a) they have no desire for conquest, or b) we have developed enough of a counter-weapon/s to deter the attempt.


It is indeed extremely likely that their existence and the interactions with them are kept secret by our governments, but that said I really wonder if aliens are as bad as some could say...

What I mean is, as Gazrok says in his point 5., they have no desire for conquest. I believe it rather than we would have developed enough counters. And if indeed they likely have not our welfare in mind, I don't think they are bad, not as such. I believe we are some kind of experiment for them, either as their creation or either as a modified and watched naturally born race.

We, humans, are doing that to animals that probably don't understand why we can kill some of them, make lots of experiments (bad ones as well as good ones), steal their offspring, watch them,... I think we are somehow tested (they need some specimen to do all of their experiments, so the abductions) and monitored.

And yes, they probably have contacts with the governments. But this is likely (in my view) why the government is hiding a lot, if not all about the subject. They don't want the people to panic. They don't want anybody firing weapons at a UFO they'd see because they would think that they'd necessarily be abducted. They don't want the whole earth population to panic. Plus, admitting that we are under control somehow would be like earth losing all its value. We'd just be then not unique, just a piece of a giant puzzle called the universe.

Now, who said that maybe all the races are malevolent or at least not benevolent to us? There might be (is likely?) several races in the universe that are visiting us, but maybe only some of them are bad?

Who knows for sure anyway should tell the world now, because so far there's only talk but nearly no proving facts...



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 06:36 AM
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If they had a hand Im our genetic background. Human law states that a genetically engineered plant or animals is property of those whom created it. Soooo, our own laws would clearly state that they own us. My head hurts.

Perhaps instead, if they did have a hand in our genetic background a more friendly idea would be in terms parent/child relationship. One day parent allows the child to grow and mature on their own; the child in turn is respectful of the parent. As long as it was a relationship base on mutual respect and understanding.



posted on Aug, 23 2004 @ 11:34 AM
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Quote by SpookyVince:

We, humans, are doing that to animals that probably don't understand why we can kill some of them, make lots of experiments (bad ones as well as good ones), steal their offspring, watch them,... I think we are somehow tested (they need some specimen to do all of their experiments, so the abductions) and monitored.



But remember, in general we humans beleive we have a soul, and that animals do not. Therefore, when we kill an animal we animal we see that there will be no afterlife consequences to that animal. Just death to it's life on earth. So, if the aliens see us as animals, and would kill us or experiment on us as such, they either see us as beings with no soul. Or they themselves don't beleive in souls or afterlife or god.



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