Originally posted by nyk537

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
But in today's world, where we are expected to pay taxes, and that money goes to programs we don't agree to,

So you don't want your tax money going to things you don't agree to...but it's fine if Uncle Sam takes the tax money of the wealthy and does whatever you think should be done?

Sounds about right.

Let me correct you... I don't want my tax money going toward war, however I accept that this is the nature of government and taxes. Money will be paid to the government and they will use it as they see fit. To change that system, while ambitious, would take a very very long time... So, for now, while that system is in place, I would absolutely find it easier to pay into things I don't agree with if there are also things in there I do agree with. Paying for a government healthcare option, like Medicare for everyone, is something I would feel better about tax dollars going, as well as prgrams that help feed and protect lower income families and elderly.

As far as the wealthy giving up tax breaks that were always intended to be temporary, yeah, I see no problem with that sacrifice. Billionaires will remain billionaires. To say jobs will be lost due to tax breaks being cancelled, is to say a billionaire has fewer billions and so must cut some salaries so he can make the same billions as before. It's excessive and extraordinarily greedy. But the wealthy has the right to do that d*ck move if they so choose... and they often do.

To say there is a war on the rich is to ignore the decimation of the middle class. The only war the rich need be concerned with, is the one they have waged on the American people by injecting themselves so stealthily and aggressively into government. Everyone has free speech, but wealthy and corporations definitely have more free speech than others.

Originally posted by Anjin

How would you classify me?

As an adult that takes personal responsibility seriously.

Mods, isn't this a political baiting/trolling thread?

If not, the OP sure has some juvenile ideas. There should be a minimum age for this board.

/TOA

I am not a Republican, but I have a health understanding of classical liberalism. Many of my hard core democratic friends cannot wrap their minds around the state as a weapon. Taxation by threat of force is the gun someone has already mentioned. Anytime the state uses force to confiscate wealth no matter the reason the act is immoral.

I cannot rob you with a gun because my mother is dying from lack of money for medicine. You might be able to empathize with me, but it does not make my action just.

The state is the greatest danger to human liberty, and human moral progress. As long as you believe that this time the wolf will guard the hen house you are living in a fantasy.

The idealized state myth is what the right considers leftist indoctrination. Those in the left always roll their eyes when terms like socialist, or leftist radical are thrown around. It is impossible for them to step away from the belief that the state does good. They do not see this belief as socialist, or dangerous. It is progressive. This time we will use the state for good. This time.....

Threads like this really bother me. I see one group getting lumped into a category with assumptions being made on why they believe what they believe. You can't do that en masse. The Declaration of Independence....

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

All men are created equal... They are all entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.... That is where the equality lies. That equality doesn't mean everyone is entitled to affordable healthcare, it doesn't mean you don't have to work and Uncle Sam gets to take money from others so you can have a nice house, a cell phone, etc...

There are different circumstances when dealing with social aid programs. SOme folks lose their job, then their insurance, then have problems paying their mortgage or rent, can't buy groceries. So they get medicaid, food stamps, Section 8 housing vouchers, uncle sam gives you a cell phone to look for work.... So Mom and Dad go to work at McDonalds while looking for a real job, unemployment supplements them, section 8 helps them with the rent... A couple months later they find decent jobs, drop the unemployment. They keep the medicaid for 3 months till the work insurance kicks in. They are off section 8 in a couple months...

Now Joe Blow loses his job. He gets medicaid. He gets unemployment. He get's the housing assistance. He gets the cell. He gets food stamps. He doesn't bother to look for work until the unemployment is about to expire a year later. Then he only works long enough to refill the unemployment. He never get's off the other stuff.

Yeah the government is raising my taxes to fund both of those guys. I work my rear off and I lose 40% of my income when the 2nd guy loses nothing and actually gets 45k a year in benefits while not doing anything. So take stiff away from my kids and my family so he can stay home and watch tv.

We aren't a communal society. THis isn't a country where everyone get's whatever they want whether they work or not. THis country is where you work to get what you want. Hard work leads to success. Laziness leads to not having things, or it should. But it doesn't anymore. Everyone is fine no matter how hard they work. We stopped rewarding hard work we now penalize it. Steal from the haves and give to the have nots.

I have sympathy and have no problems helping people get back on their feet. I do have problems supporting people in perpetuity and allowing that to be ok. Remember when people were embarrassed to use food stamps? Remember when you didn't want to tell anyone you were drawing unemployment and when it was embarrassing if you lost your job? THis country has changed for the worse.

We need major entitlement reform. The government should give a helping hand, help folks get on their feet not support them forever. I give to charities who do a much better job helping people in a more cost effective manner than the gubment. But to a certain degree you should be able to choose what to do with the money you make rather than being told what to do with it, that isn't what America was intended to be. I should be able to decide if my family needs the money or if I can spare some to help you. congress should not decide that.

I grew up on a farm. When I was young we didn't have a lot of money. But when we'd go deer hunting we would take the extra meat to needy families.

This country is getting ridiculous. We've deviated so far from the founders intended path it's silly. What you deem as not being sympathetic some view as frustration with the entitlement system. They take and take and take... No options for the rest of us. Our congress is supposed to represent us. They don't. They make their own decisions rather than representing their constituents. THe elected officials don't do what they are supposed to, they don't represent our interests, they represent what will get them reelected and what is in their best interest.

From where I stand I should be able to choose how much I can afford to help others as opposed to having half of my tax dollars going towards entitlements for others. I'll help anyone as much as I can, I simply don't like the idea of being told exactly how much I have to help without regard for my situation. So you seem to think conservatives aren't sympathetic. Let me ask you this, why on earth do I need anyone to decide what's best for my family? And why should the government decide that someone else's family is more important than mine?

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
I see a very cold mentality devoid of all empathy, and in fact, very resentful toward the unemployed, the poor, and the needy. Hatred and blame toward illegals, with zero empathy expressed. I see a hatred toward muslims and a patriotism toward the U.S. that even war crimes committed by the U.S. is not an issue for republicans. Things like torture are shrugged off or coldly embraced.

Republicans are not evil but many are brain washed and fearful.

What is the number one fear of any republican of any class? Having less and losing control.

Losing power, wealth, status both as an individual and as a group.

The Republican party has been engineered to take advantage of this fear.

"The Rich" republicans actually benefit from this and the rest just go along for the ideological ride.

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by Anjin

How would you classify me?

As an adult that takes personal responsibility seriously.

Mods, isn't this a political baiting/trolling thread?

If not, the OP sure has some juvenile ideas. There should be a minimum age for this board.

/TOA

Actually, based on all the examples I gave I consider this a legitimate question. I truly want to know if qualities like empathy, compassion, and conscience are things that republicans ignore or somehow find strength in ridding themselves of.

For instance, I was talking to a friend who playfully calls himself a ringwing nutjob (he's republican). We spoke about torture. I asked him how he can be okay with the U.S. turning a blind eye to rape, torture, and murder, as revealed by Wikileaks. Or how he can support torture, when so many people are innocent and basically tortued and abused in an effort to determine their innocence. His response... he shrugged and literally said "I have no problem with any of that."

Another friend I have is republican and said she only voted for Bush because of the tax incentives, and constantly complains about where her taxes are going. This is a woman with a nice car, extremely good pay, and honestly, in knowing her, her buying habits, I can say she seems to have a lot of love and respect for money... not so much for people in need, never has anything nice to say about Mexicans, and basically ties Mexicans to illegals to laziness, and all our nations money problems. She views lower income families as a drain on society. other times she has voiced a complete support for torture, shrugging off the fact that some are children and others who are found to be innocent and yet are tortured and held in a cell for years without rights.

I'm sorry to say, I find when I listen to republican voters talk, there is so much resentment in their tones toward illegals, gays, women's rights, muslims, poor families, and the unemployed... with no expression of empathy or compassion for the suffering... Just that same shrug and a reaction like "They have to take care of themselves... or stop being lazy... or why should I have to pay for other people's problems... or we should just shoot the illegals when they try to cross..." <-- Yes, even angry violent rhetoric like that coming from republican voters.

And a complete lack of empathy and conscience. So I wondered if this is a common condition or personality trait of being republican. Like maybe, empathy or compassion is considered weak to republicans.

Originally posted by stephinrazin
I am not a Republican, but I have a health understanding of classical liberalism. Many of my hard core democratic friends cannot wrap their minds around the state as a weapon. Taxation by threat of force is the gun someone has already mentioned. Anytime the state uses force to confiscate wealth no matter the reason the act is immoral.

I cannot rob you with a gun because my mother is dying from lack of money for medicine. You might be able to empathize with me, but it does not make my action just.

The state is the greatest danger to human liberty, and human moral progress. As long as you believe that this time the wolf will guard the hen house you are living in a fantasy.

The idealized state myth is what the right considers leftist indoctrination. Those in the left always roll their eyes when terms like socialist, or leftist radical are thrown around. It is impossible for them to step away from the belief that the state does good. They do not see this belief as socialist, or dangerous. It is progressive. This time we will use the state for good. This time.....

I find it interesting that republicans will use taxes as a metaphor for being forced to do something at gunpoint... but actual gun points like illegally invading countries, or torturing people, or turning a blind eye to rape and murder... or even embracing the Patriot Act and TSA is somehow excluded from this metaphorical gunpoint forced on people.

It really seems money is the sore spot for republicans... and knowing the love of money is the root of all evil... and republicans traditionally embrace big money, big corporations... Asking if republican voters have conscience or empathy I think is a valid question.

It's an interesting philosophy to embrace money above all things and yet have no problems with money spent on war. That's a very interesting position to take, morally speaking.

Originally posted by spiritualzombie
It really seems money is the sore spot for republicans... and knowing the love of money is the root of all evil... and republicans traditionally embrace big money, big corporations... Asking if republican voters have conscience or empathy I think is a valid question.

It's an interesting philosophy to embrace money above all things and yet have no problems with money spent on war. That's a very interesting position to take, morally speaking.

It isn't a valid question because Republicans believe that people deserve being poor because they are lazy. If this was true it would not be immoral to let them be poor.

They might be ignorant and brain washed but they BELIEVE they are doing the right thing.