5.8 Million Israelis Get 100 Billion In US Tax Dollars While American States Are Falling Apart

Originally posted by patternfinder
after reading almost every single post on this thread, i would say that if you take the info that zionists have provided on here to prove their points and the info that non zionists have provided and you put it all on a scale, the non zionists have it by a landslide..........

Lol.. trying to convince yourself in the chat room that you won while its very evident in the Middle East that your argument and actions have failed is bittersweet.

Incapable of taking Israel down, so you sink to the level of coming into a chat room and blaming ISrael for everything and calling anyone who doesnt agree with you a zionist.

I think we should reduce aid to Israel. They have laready shown time and again the arab countries are no match for them militarily, and the arabs like to blow themsleves up...

No glory in rousting arab rabble.

Originally posted by patternfinder

I'm sorry, I will respond one more time to you... you proved my point about "anti-semitism" when you jewish guys call someone anti semite, you are calling them "anti-language" ha ha.....because you even showed that semitics is actually language......so, when you jewish guys hate on muslims you are being anti-semitic also......pot calling the kettle black eh?

edit on 7-8-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

I have already given you the etymology and usage of the word "anti-semitism."

This was proven by Hitler's (for example) use of the word.

Do you REALLY think he meant anti-language?

It is the same thing as you trying to say that my IO device is actually a rodent that lives in a field.

Please study language arts a bit more thoroughly.


Hopefully that is what you will do during your sabbatical from me.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Unrivaled1

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by patternfinder

 

which will allow others to decide if your information is valid or based on an agenda.

Please show me where I have given unquivecal support to Israel. Please show me where you and pattern have addressed problems with arab countries or the Palestinians.

sorry, this thread isn't about palestine or arab countries, it is about israel......thank you for playing.....toodles....

edit on 7-8-2011 by patternfinder because: (no reason given)

reply to post by patternfinder


Lol... I love you guys who hate Israel. Always trying to limit the topic because the big picture undermines your argument. The Us provides aid to ISrael to offset the aid given to Syria and Iran by countries who are at odds with ISrael.

We dont give Israel money just because we can. We do it so they can protect themselves from Arab / terrorist Hamas agression.

Had arab countries accepted peace after the 67 war and recognized Israels right to exist, we wouldnt be here. Even with the recent peace initiative with ISrael willing to give land for peace, Hamas goes on record saying they will never recognize Israel.

Our funding for ISrael is well justified, no matter how many facts that dont support your argument you ignore.

reply to post by Xcathdra


And this justifies the MURDERING of INNOCENT CHILDREN? nope, sorry keep trying pro-israelis.

rocks do not = bullets to the face(on the defence of promised land)

reply to post by Xcathdra

Had arab countries accepted peace after the 67 war and recognized Israels right to exist, we wouldnt be here. Even with the recent peace initiative with ISrael willing to give land for peace, Hamas goes on record saying they will never recognize Israel.

Haven't we been over this multiple times??

Even some Israeli's agreed the deal offered by Israel was BS..

Out of interest, when have Israel said they'll recognize Palestine??

They are even trying to influence a UN vote..

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Lol... I love you guys who hate Israel. Always trying to limit the topic because the big picture undermines your argument. The Us provides aid to ISrael to offset the aid given to Syria and Iran by countries who are at odds with ISrael.

We dont give Israel money just because we can. We do it so they can protect themselves from Arab / terrorist Hamas agression.

Had arab countries accepted peace after the 67 war and recognized Israels right to exist, we wouldnt be here. Even with the recent peace initiative with ISrael willing to give land for peace, Hamas goes on record saying they will never recognize Israel.

Our funding for ISrael is well justified, no matter how many facts that dont support your argument you ignore.

if you start a thread about palestine and arabs i will be happy to post some comments on them... but this one is about israel.......

hahahahaha, thanks for the chuckles guys

tis always an enlightening experience to view (in real time) the vitriol spewed by the same propaganda machine that built this empire ... cheers to Xcathdra and those like it ... may they enjoy their fantasy while it lasts.

to those who are 'in the know' ... i didn't respond to such nonsense considering the source was FAS.org
Talk about a direct appendage of the beast ... hmmm, let's see, a 'think tank' which, btw, is led by a Jewish descendant, which 'monitors' by their own admission, some monetary transactions primarily concerning weapons ... now there's a real source that applies to this topic. btw, Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on American weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry.

the $2.75 billion deal is one of the largest arms procurements by the state of Israel. This is the first part of a series of US taxpayer-funded arms transfers to Israel that is expected to total more than $30 billion over the next decade.

source: archive.truthout.org...

the Obama administration announced a $60 billion arms sale to the repressive regime in Saudi Arabia, the largest in history

... yet, some folks think these "largest weapon transfers in history" (taxpayer funded) are necessary?

reply to post by Honor93


--Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on American weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry. --

Once again, the facts allude you.

Let me lay it out, with links and everything . . . just for you.






--Israel uses almost 75% of its FMF funds to purchase U.S. defense equipment--



--Gazit’s study noted that the bulk of the US aid to Israel is for defense purposes, and that according to the stipulations of that aid, Israel must spend 75 percent of the money on US-made weapons and defense systems.*please note that the above article is slamming US aid to Israel. Opening paragraph: "An analyst for a top Jerusalem think tank has concluded that US financial aid is a detriment to the Jewish state, both politically and economically, and should be dropped like a bad habit."--



--1) Money. Of the $30 billion promised by the U.S. to Israel in foreign military financing (FMF) from 2009-2018, about 25% of that funding can be used by Israel for purchases made directly from its own domestic defense industry. ($670.65 million in FY2009). Israel is the only country allowed to use FMF monies on its own domestic defense industry.

2) Weapons. The other 75% of FMF funds is used to purchase U. S. defense equipment. This equipment consists of weapons purchased from the U.S. government, and of weapons produced by private U.S. manufacturers and sold by those manufacturers directly to Israel, with the approval of the U.S. government.--



--The US requires Israel to use 75 percent of all the military aid it receives to buy US-made arms. Consequently, every year billions of dollars are funneled from US taxpayers to hundreds of arms corporations, who then wage lobbying campaigns pushing for even more foreign military aid. The results of this policy are twofold: it not only diverts much needed funding from domestic education and social programs, but it makes US citizens complicit in the abuses committed by the Israeli army.--




--Whereas most countries receiving FMF must spend nearly all of it procuring American military equipment, Israel may spend 26 percent of its FMF on domestic military procurement, which acts as an enormous boon to Israeli defense industries.--




In other words, all countries receiving FMF (Foreign Military Funding) must spend 100% of that money on US products.

Israel only has to spend 75% on US products, but the remaining 25% must be spent on products of Israel.

You are totally barking up the wrong tree on this one.

But don't let facts get in the way of your hatred.



Edit: Here is the nail in your coffin:

--6. In order for a contract to be approved for FMF funding, the defense articles and services
purchased must be manufactured and assembled in the United States, purchased from U.S.
manufacturers or suppliers, and composed of U.S.-origin materiel, components, goods, and
services (hereafter “content”).

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Honor93

 

--Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on American weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry. --

Once again, the facts allude you.

Let me lay it out, with links and everything . . . just for you.

edit on 8/8/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)

wow, one typo and the 'machine' stops at nothing to declare its claim to fame ... fortunately, you are only partially correct. here, let's try some Newer facts ... just in case your old data has clouded your view.

first, the typo = "American" in the sentence referencing 'obligated' weaponry purchases ...should have read "Israeli" ... which, in this corrected statement, we agree, kinda.
Because Israel is limited in spending options of FMF funds and due to their NATO ally status enabling them to receive outdated equipment for free (in many cases), there should be NO ... zip, zilch, nada, No US taxpayer funding of weapons development or procurement IN Israel ... they can produce and fund their own.

from the Jewish Virtual Library & updated 2010 ... here's a clearer picture ... source

Starting with fiscal year 1987, Israel annually received $1.2 billion in all grant economic aid and $1.8 billion in all grant military assistance. In 1998, Israel offered to voluntarily reduce its dependence on U.S. economic aid. According to an agreement reached with the Clinton Administration and Congress, the $1.2 billion economic aid package will be reduced by $120 million each year so that it will be phased out in ten years (2008). Half of the annual savings in economic assistance each year ($60 million) will be added to Israel's military aid package in recognition of its increased security needs. In 2005, Israel received $360 million in economic aid and $2.22 billion in military aid. In 2006, economic aid is scheduled to be reduced to $240 million and military aid will increase to $2.28 billion.

Now, i'm not sure about others, but i cannot consciously support such an outlandishly wasteful abuse of funds in much greater need at home. I will not pretend it doesn't matter, it DOES.
others can vacillate til their blood boils but it will not change the fact that we are wasting time, money and effort with ever dollar committed. They haven't received economic assistance since 2007. As for propping up their military, That is their job, not Americas.

then of course, there is this little 'tidbit' which is quite likely the "hotpoint" of any negotiations with Palestine ...

February 2003 - Even while cutting aid to Israel (which still was budgeted at $2.1 billion for military aid and $600 million for economic assistance), Congress included a number of provisions in the aid bill viewed as favorable to Israel, including a provision that bars federal assistance to a future Palestinian state until the current Palestinian leadership is replaced, and that state demonstrates a commitment to peaceful coexistence with Israel, and takes measures to combat terrorism

whether this 'string' is impinging progress or not, one can only guess ... but, once the purse string is cut, other obstacles shall disappear simultaneously.

and when you look at a more complete picture, this emerges ...

Altogether, since 1949, Israel has received more than $106 billion in assistance. This includes the four special allocations, the $10 billion in loan guarantees (spread over five years) approved in 1992, the $9 billion in guarantees offered in 2003, and a variety of other smaller assistance-related accounts, such as refugee resettlement (nearly $1.6 billion overall since 1973), the American Schools and Hospitals Abroad Program (ASHA), which supports schools, libraries and medical centers that demonstrate American ideas and practices (($144 million), and cooperative development programs (a total of $186 million since 1981). The total does not include funds for joint military projects like the Arrow missile

i could go on and on about the relentless funneling and circumventing of ill gotten gains which seem to always revolve around Israel but that isn't what this topic is about.

As for your other personal attacks, only the weak minded and uneducated stoop to such levels. how's the view?
and, just in case you actually review facts once in awhile, here's the balance sheet from 1949 thru 2009 ... Aid to Israel

you say Israel is required to use 75% for everything from defense to weaponry and that is a lie.
defense is a whole other budget often abused ... usually with a $$ triple digit million frequency.
combat weapons are often transferred at no or low cost, tis a benefit of being a NATO ally.
AND, they receive additional funds to fight ... drum roll please ... you guessed it ... Terrorism.

Talk about the "art of confusion" ... i give you credit, you are skilled ... as an example, why would you place these two sentences in the same context ?? the first is an absolute lie and the second is not, however, you purposely mislead the reader ... hmmmm, wonder why?

In other words, all countries receiving FMF (Foreign Military Funding) must spend 100% of that money on US products.

Israel only has to spend 75% on US products, but the remaining 25% must be spent on products of Israel.

It is a bit difficult to spend the same dollar in 2 different countries ... ... and, Israel isn't 'producing' US products, so how would they accomplish that btw?

oh and lastly, your "nail" is missing a point ... the 'contract' with Israel is refreshed regularly -- changes every few years and hasn't had a requirement indicating content percentages in quite some time ... so your point is?

ps: hatred is a complete waste of perfectly good energy

as a side note --> Israel does manufacturing (am not implying otherwise), however, i do find it remarkable that the primary weapons manufacturer is a government-owned industry ... so, do tell us again where that 25% is likely to land? Not with the people of Israel or their children or their coffers ... but the Zionists in govt control.

The great majority of industries are privately owned, one exception being the government-run Israel Aircraft Industries, Ltd., a defense and civil aerospace manufacturer. Factories producing military supplies and equipment have expanded considerably since the 1967 war—a circumstance that stimulated the development of the electronics industry.

source

I see the zionists and their sympathisers are still calling "anti-semite" to anyone who produces truth about zionist atrocities. Give it time, the whole world will be against them soon (the 10% that isnt already that is), they just dig their hole deeper but they see not, when they pull out their moshiach(anti-christ to the non-zionists) we can finally unite and help them meet their CREATOR . They're only fooling themselves. Zionism is a disease, the forked tongue of their followers being one of the many many symptoms, and it doesnt take a muslim or even a religous individual to see that. Talking truth to a zionist will always fall on deaf ears, just direct them to the jews against zionism(and the illegal state of Israel) and tell them to give their forked tongue to their brothers, save them the embarassment of making a tool of themselves to the truth seekers.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I say let them duke it out why not everyone else is left to fend for themselves let them fight and win or lose they have nukes let the semites kill the semites so we can put this BS aside and move on already. quit supporting the hate on anyside let them hate and kill each other law of the jungle.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by patternfinder

 

Lol... I love you guys who hate Israel. Always trying to limit the topic because the big picture undermines your argument. The Us provides aid to ISrael to offset the aid given to Syria and Iran by countries who are at odds with ISrael.

We dont give Israel money just because we can. We do it so they can protect themselves from Arab / terrorist Hamas agression.

Had arab countries accepted peace after the 67 war and recognized Israels right to exist, we wouldnt be here. Even with the recent peace initiative with ISrael willing to give land for peace, Hamas goes on record saying they will never recognize Israel.

Our funding for ISrael is well justified, no matter how many facts that dont support your argument you ignore.

Is there a reason why I as an American should care what happens to Israel while Americans are being thrown out on the street and cant even find a job? Funding Israel is well justified? How about funding America? You know what? I dont recognize Israel because I dont give a crap about Israel and I sure as hell dont want my tax dollars going to them when the American people need their own damn "aid".

Originally posted by Honor93

wow, one typo and the 'machine' stops at nothing to declare its claim to fame ... fortunately, you are only partially correct. here, let's try some Newer facts ... just in case your old data has clouded your view.

first, the typo = "American" in the sentence referencing 'obligated' weaponry purchases ...should have read "Israeli" ... which, in this corrected statement, we agree, kinda.
. . .

Nice backtracking.

You said ---Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on American weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry.--

Okay, so you supposedly make a typo. It should read "-Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on Israeli weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry."

Problem is that that no one even brought up the obligatory 25% on domestic use, much less decry it. Everyone was talking about the 75% on American use (and "decrying" it). So you excuse makes absolutely ZERO sense.



As for the rest of your post, I agree that there are a lot of questionable practices, but it is in no way limited to Israel.. Which is why I say cut aid to EVERYONE until we can get our own ducks in a row.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

Originally posted by Honor93

wow, one typo and the 'machine' stops at nothing to declare its claim to fame ... fortunately, you are only partially correct. here, let's try some Newer facts ... just in case your old data has clouded your view.

first, the typo = "American" in the sentence referencing 'obligated' weaponry purchases ...should have read "Israeli" ... which, in this corrected statement, we agree, kinda.
. . .

Nice backtracking.

You said ---Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on American weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry.--

Okay, so you supposedly make a typo. It should read "-Israel is only obligated to use 25% of its funding on Israeli weaponry, not 'most of it' as others decry."

Problem is that that no one even brought up the obligatory 25% on domestic use, much less decry it. Everyone was talking about the 75% on American use (and "decrying" it). So you excuse makes absolutely ZERO sense.



As for the rest of your post, I agree that there are a lot of questionable practices, but it is in no way limited to Israel.. Which is why I say cut aid to EVERYONE until we can get our own ducks in a row.

hahahaha, are you silly or just searching?
since when is admitting & correcting an error --> "backtracking" ???

whatever, something triggered that response ... am not searching the thread or arguing a moot point.
this thread is not about errors made by posters ~~ But, it is about errors made by the US govt concerning unreasonable, excessive, perpetual funding to Israel.

No one said other countries were infallible, whatever gave you that impression?
But again, this thread isn't about "Other Countries" ... we are discussing Israel, period.
If you don't want to discuss the facts, please find another topic ... but quit trying to derail this one.

The practices of Israel and her government are not my immediate concern, the practices of the US (my) govt are immediately my concern considering they expect me to financially support their/this nonsense. If the people of Israel want to change their govts practices, that is up to them to achieve ... not me or the US.

I also agree with temporarily suspending all foreign aid during this challenging economical crisis, however, it is woven in such a manner that such an action cannot occur, so wishful thinking is great, but the question is ... one by one, how do we deal with it ?? and this thread is about the Israeli portion of the problem.

Put your wishes and wants in one hand and the reality in the other, what happens?
do we deal with the reality or cry about what we want?

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

--In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.--

Considering the speak Hebrew . . . I think that qualifies them as Semitic.

The majority of Jews are Ashkenazi Jews.
The term comes from the biblical "Ashkenaz".... a son of Japeth, the progenitor of the European peoples.

Why would the people who claim descent from Shem (Japeths brother) name themselves after a son of Japeth?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

--In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ‎) was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.--

Considering the speak Hebrew . . . I think that qualifies them as Semitic.

The majority of Jews are Ashkenazi Jews.
The term comes from the biblical "Ashkenaz".... a son of Japeth, the progenitor of the European peoples.

Why would the people who claim descent from Shem (Japeths brother) name themselves after a son of Japeth?

WOW!!! maybe they're actually from the line of Essau...remember, Abraham was going to bless essau until his brother jacob got slipped in there by his mother so that he could steal essaus's blessing....then Abraham told essau after he came in and found out that jacob had been blessed in his stead, abraham promised blessed him with some get back for later on. he said that essau's decendents would be under jacob until a time in the future when they would regain the blessing from jacob's descendents...... maybe that's what happened, they took on jacob's descendent's identity and now they are getting their get back and trying to rule the whole world.....ya never know......just sayin........

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


The majority of Jews are Ashkenazi Jews.
The term comes from the biblical "Ashkenaz".... a son of Japeth, the progenitor of the European peoples.

Why would the people who claim descent from Shem (Japeths brother) name themselves after a son of Japeth?

They are called Ashkenazi Jews because Ashkenaz is what that are of Germany used to be called.

--In rabbinic literature, Ashkenaz is believed to be the ancestor of the Germanic people, probably due to the similarity of the names Gomer with German, and Ashkenaz with Aschanes (Askanius), a mythological progenitor of the Saxons. For this reason, Ashkenaz is the Medieval Hebrew name for Germany.--

Just like Sarphat and Sepharad are Biblical and Rabbinical names for Iberia (hence, Sephardic Jews).

reply to post by patternfinder


PSALM 83
1 - Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God!
2 - For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
3 - They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, And consulted together against Your sheltered ones.
4 - They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”
5 - For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You:
6 - The tents of Edom (Palestinian Refugees) and the Ishmaelites; Moab and the Hagrites;
7 - Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 - Assyria also has joined with them; They have helped the children of Lot.

So acording to you, you are saying that Ishmailites (Arabs) have conspired with Edomites (Zionists ("jews") to take council against . . . who again?

Furthermore, the Bible state that Esau would forever dwell around Mt. Seir (which is SE of the Dead Sea).



Now we will go to the secular side.

I thought "Jews" were from Europe? Can't be from both now. The Khazar kingdom never spread below the Caspian sea.

Second, --While the date of the first settlement of Jews in the regions the Romans called Germania Superior, Germania Inferior, and Germania Magna is not known, the first authentic document relating to a large and well-organized Jewish community in these regions dates from 321 and refers to Cologne on the Rhine. It indicates that the legal status of the Jews there was the same as elsewhere in the Roman Empire. They enjoyed some civil liberties, but were restricted regarding the dissemination of their faith, the keeping of Christian slaves, and the holding of office under the government.--

The Khazars did not convert until 300 years later than that.

So even IF Khazars are ancestors of our modern Jews, it does not mean that they are not "true" Jews, as the migration of the Jews after 70AD is quite well documented, it shows that the Jews spread North, NW, and East. during the first 10 centuries. Later, the ones that went East, migrated W by NW after the Islamic dynasties fell apart.


Again, your theory does not fit either Biblical or Secular history.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by patternfinder

 

PSALM 83
1 - Do not keep silent, O God! Do not hold Your peace, And do not be still, O God!
2 - For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head.
3 - They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, And consulted together against Your sheltered ones.
4 - They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”
5 - For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You:
6 - The tents of Edom (Palestinian Refugees) and the Ishmaelites; Moab and the Hagrites;
7 - Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek; Philistia with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 - Assyria also has joined with them; They have helped the children of Lot.

So acording to you, you are saying that Ishmailites (Arabs) have conspired with Edomites (Zionists ("jews") to take council against . . . who again?

Furthermore, the Bible state that Esau would forever dwell around Mt. Seir (which is SE of the Dead Sea).



Now we will go to the secular side.

I thought "Jews" were from Europe? Can't be from both now. The Khazar kingdom never spread below the Caspian sea.

Second, --While the date of the first settlement of Jews in the regions the Romans called Germania Superior, Germania Inferior, and Germania Magna is not known, the first authentic document relating to a large and well-organized Jewish community in these regions dates from 321 and refers to Cologne on the Rhine. It indicates that the legal status of the Jews there was the same as elsewhere in the Roman Empire. They enjoyed some civil liberties, but were restricted regarding the dissemination of their faith, the keeping of Christian slaves, and the holding of office under the government.--

The Khazars did not convert until 300 years later than that.

So even IF Khazars are ancestors of our modern Jews, it does not mean that they are not "true" Jews, as the migration of the Jews after 70AD is quite well documented, it shows that the Jews spread North, NW, and East. during the first 10 centuries. Later, the ones that went East, migrated W by NW after the Islamic dynasties fell apart.


Again, your theory does not fit either Biblical or Secular history.

edit on 8/9/2011 by Lemon.Fresh because: (no reason given)

I was playing....lol, you get so serious in your fight for israel....interesting....