There's no small amount of sense in 5POF's posting.

(and PS don't let Thomas see this thread: I'm not sure that he accepts that the last one has finished yet)

Originally posted by JediMaster
My only guess that it could happen again if

- the NWO comes into power or
- we have a realy horrible president that tears the whole nation apart.
- But I doubt something like that will happen in the near furture.

Oh.....the irony!
I'm not up on the NWO consipracy mindset, but the whole "realy horrible president that tears the whole nation apart" dynamic has been in full swing since 2000....where have you been!?!?!

The government is supposed to be the voice for the majority of the population. It is also supposed to protect the public from themselves. If one interferes with the other, the majority is to get their way, or we wouldn't have a country.

little side noted, Texas is legally allowed to secede from the Union

Didn't we already have a war to settle that dispute? I thought that was one of the main points of the war. Isn't Texas in the south? Didn't the south loose? Should they be able to succeed(sp?), No.

But that dream has turned into a nightmare.

There are two ways to avoid a nightmare: To summon all of your dreaming strength, realize its a dream and fight it. The other way is to wake up.

We need to wake up, I see all of these people writing about blood needing to be spilled or that we need a forceful overthrow. No one has mentioned Gandi, Mandela or King. These people changed their government by laying down in the street and proclaiming "We Shall Overcome!" They didn't need guns, they didnt need bombs, all they needed to do was reject their government and say that something needed to be done.

If you can get the support needed to have a bloody revolution then you can get the support needed for a peaceful revolution. Those who complain about a loss of life must realize that killing innocents will only lessen the governments cause and that violence will result in yet more death.

We live in an invisible apartheid, where all are discriminated against where no ones voices are heard. We have been blinded, deafened and muted so that a bunch of fat old white men can make more money by destroying nature. We must learn not to blindly accept what is told to us by those who lie to us with a straight face.

Through organization and planning we will prevail. With a group effort of not going to work, not paying our taxes and forming our own government that will be the only one we observe we will overcome. And if the Government uses violence, like unnumerable dictatorships have then as always the UN and other countries will be forced to intervene. And if they dont? Well, screw em we can do this on our own.

XAS

Texas is legally allowed to leave the union, through their treaty with the US and their constitution, none of the other states were, the invasion of Texas by the North was illegal

Wow, that's somthing new. I wonder why it is still legal for them to leave. I still say the gov't has to comply with the majority. If they do not, then they are no longer our gov't, they are our masters, and we their slaves. (by the way, slavery is still illegal right?)

The government is the voice of the people, the leaders chosen by the people. If the people want somthing, they will get it. (unless, of course, they are distracted...)

Why would Texas secced? They run America. We need to secced from them.

XAOS

dont blame us for W

we don't need a civil war, we need to simply vote. 50.7% of eligible voters showin up and voting but it seems that a hell of a lot more than that have strong feelings on how our government is being run now.

also, our electoral college system was set up to guard against public opinion necessarily becoming political policy. we live, and have lived in a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. being in a government is a fulltime job, while we only read news and what is fed to us by whoever's job it is to tell us what we can know while we pursue our own careers. trust me, i may not agree with everything our government does, but i'm guessing they know a hell of a lot more about the actual situation then i do sitting here. and yes george w. bush was elected as president of the united states. some people seem to still have trouble coping with it but we have had the electoral college for over 200 years and it works in my opinion.

and why do many representatives and even some senators run unopposed? elections are the time to make changes, not while the administrations are in full swing.

i don't know what else to say right now and i don't even know if what i am trying to say was worded the best way, so now i'll just stop and wait for the inevitable bashing i'm about to receive for stating that Bush won the election.

[Edited on 4-2-2003 by illguy]

Haha "dont blame us for W" that had me laughing.

Originally posted by xaos
Through organization and planning we will prevail. With a group effort of not going to work, not paying our taxes and forming our own government that will be the only one we observe we will overcome. And if the Government uses violence, like unnumerable dictatorships have then as always the UN and other countries will be forced to intervene. And if they dont? Well, screw em we can do this on our own.

Okay. With no jobs, how would we raise enough money to form our own government?

Because if nobody works,nobody is paying taxes.No taxes, no money for the government.

Originally posted by nyeff
Because if nobody works,nobody is paying taxes.No taxes, no money for the government.

You can still work and not pay taxes. Granted, it would really piss the Govt. off..but isn't that the point? We would still be earning our wages, but they wouldn't. But they always have ways beyond our taxes to pay for things. Our taxes are just gravy to them.

No doubt the government has the means to get more money.My point is more than just regular people not working.Imagine what wall street would be like if nobody showed up,if everyone stoped buying gas,stopped using banks.All forms of government would have a hard time dealing with a state wide strike on everything.
Of course it will never happen,so the government has little to worry about.

you say mandela and gandi fought by protesting. they said something needs to be done, but who shall it be that does that which is required for change. change is brought by fighting and in our current world it is a neccesity. even though we fight not the people, we fight the government. here is how it must be done.

a militia must be formed. made of people who want to fight the government and not the people. the people are the ones who will help us. we will not kill civilians, unless they shoot at us first of course. anyone that would be harmed by this militia would be, the police, military, and gov't officials. people would like to belive that a war can be won without death. that simply isn't true. the greatest way to win support for our cause, is indeed to turn gov't agencies, such as the military, and police, basically law enforcement, against those who make the rules. they have to realize that they are pawns taking orders from a larger whole.

this militia will have one goal. establish a government that is both republican and democrat, and instead of fighting for control of the senate and congress and stuff, get things done. increase our technology, our knowledge, restablish a national pride, become less dependant on oil, but that uses hydorgen cell technology. instead of worrying how much stuff costs, see the needs of the greater whole and simply DO! people think that isn't possible because they belive that change can't occur. merely being willing to ignore the laws and make the new government, will further our cause more than fighting and killing, but to show people to resist will have to be to strike. this is our struggle. for our land. and we must be the symbol of hope for the people. join Militia, fight the power, change the world.

So who's willing to fight for the cause? We can all say that we want to, but saying and doing are two totally different things. Just look at the big picture. for us to pull this off (which would no doubt take years what with planning, obtaining the right equiptment, building safe havens, etc...) we need allies, a lot of them. We will be desperate for them. Any thoughts of allies?

that would be incredibly easy to get support from the rest of the world, once we have proven ourselves in someway. an assassination someway perhaps? or an other action. the thing is though, first step to planning is knowing who you are planning with. that is why we have to choose a place, and build a temporary HQ. no doubt underground or earth built. we could do it alqaeda style in some old caves? who knows right now. first thing we have to do is get a small group of people together. maybe about thirty. thirty people would be able to begin work on simple earth built structures that could be built in a few days for shelters.

then we would recruit a few more people once we have ample shelters. in the forest, earth built shelters, and shelters made from forest brush, branches, trees, shouldn't be too complicated. my friends and i made a small fortress type deal back in the wods behind his house this summer, but it was crushed in the harsh upstate NY winter.

third step is armament. this will be easiest. many people will be over 18. i am no doubt probably going to end up the youngest member of militia. since we are going to be nothing more than a guerilla group at first, we could conduct well planned military style raids on gun stores on the outskirts of towns, get guns, get ammo. a rebel cache isn't chosen, it is aquired.

next we need a source of income. while within our own rebel structure, it will be a do not think type of system. instead of arguing over an issue, we decide upon the best choice of action, and do it. instead of wasting time on what would make us richer, cause that's not the goal. the goal is to eliminate conspiracy, spread knowledge, and show the truth to the world. that is the goal of militia.

You have some really great ideas. But we shouldnt trust any anti-american countries. The reason being, they would probably end up taking us over and then well be in an even worse situation.