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Does Time apply to space?

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posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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I was reading 'Einstein's Universe' by Nigel Clader, in that it says that as gravity decreases time slows down. It was proven by atomic clocks flying at high attitudes which slowed down. Therefore lower the gravity, lesser the time. But what happens when there is no gravity, say in space, does time exist in relative to space?

I am sure there are gravity from nearby stars and galaxies and black holes, but suppose there is a space in space that is deserted, do you think time exists down there. If time doesn't exist, neither does Big Bang and all other stuff do they?

Surf




posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Interesting question.
Gravity is the curved distortion in the fabric of space-time and according to the scientists Big-bang created the fabric of space-time that we see around us today. And we don't know what lies beyond this space-time fabric. This comes back to the question of what lies at the end of our universe.


Originally posted by surfup
I am sure there are gravity from nearby stars and galaxies and black holes, but suppose there is a space in space that is deserted, do you think time exists down there. If time doesn't exist, neither does Big Bang and all other stuff do they?


I think that there would be no such thing as "deserted space." Space and time coexist in this universe. So if no time, then no space and vice-versa.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 06:29 PM
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So time exists everywhere? So if this sounds like a silly question, I am just begining to learn about these things.

Could you explain what "Gravity is the curved distortion in the fabric of space-time and according to the scientists Big-bang created the fabric of space-time that we see around us today." means?

Thanks a lot.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 06:37 PM
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The ball is a sun or planet the grid is space-time. The gravity from the sun/planet warps the fabric of space. In the example below they show this effect. The greater the mass the greater the gravity the greater the fabric of space-time is warped.





posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 06:55 PM
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Originally posted by surfup
So time exists everywhere?


Time is relative.
There's a cracking book out by Professor Stephen Hawking called "A Brief History of Time". It's recognised as a work of genius (although he has just recently revised his theory regarding black holes!!!!).

This link might answer some of your question.

www.generationterrorists.com...



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 06:59 PM
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the space (XYZ) and time (T) happen to be just dimensions of a 4-dimensional "place" we live in.

In that regard, time exists everywhere


The Universe itself is finite though, i.e. if you travel long enough you'll probably get back to the point where you started -- it's like round the world trip.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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surfup,
Here are some links that might help you:

Relativity,space,time and gravity : Four sections of reading. physicalworld.org...

kinglizard's diagram explains it well, and here is another one: www.netowne.com...

www.netowne.com...
theory.uwinnipeg.ca...

There are better links out there, do a search on gravity/space-time or other similar terms.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 07:12 PM
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i think gravity has got something to do with the mass of the planet your standing on as well as the planets/suns in your solar system.so time only applies to that locale/planet...i.e time on mars is different to time on earth cos it takes longer for mars to orbit the sun
i thought that einsteins theory of relativity was based around where you are in relation to where everything else is...or something like that..lol
so i think they kinda tie in
maybe some1 could enlighten me on the subject?

[edit on 16-8-2004 by Heratix]

[edit on 16-8-2004 by Heratix]



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by surfup
I was reading 'Einstein's Universe' by Nigel Clader, in that it says that as gravity decreases time slows down. It was proven by atomic clocks flying at high attitudes which slowed down. Therefore lower the gravity, lesser the time. But what happens when there is no gravity, say in space, does time exist in relative to space?


Excuse me if i am wrong, but doesnt time slow down when there is MORE gravity. Isnt that why they presume that there is no time in the centre of a black hole??...
Another example is the whole twin aging paradox. If one twin was to go into a space shuttle and travels really fast into space and come back they would age less than the twin back on earth.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by LuDaCrIs
Excuse me if i am wrong, but doesnt time slow down when there is MORE gravity. Isnt that why they presume that there is no time in the centre of a black hole??...Another example is the whole twin aging paradox. If one twin was to go into a space shuttle and travels really fast into space and come back they would age less than the twin back on earth.


I guess it goes both ways, time slow when there is less gravity and when there is more gravity, I think it is the horizon of the black hole when the time is standing still.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 09:18 PM
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Does Physics change as the universe expands? I was just thinking.....................anybody thought of this? Or am I just rambling.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 09:29 PM
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I would think so, physics when Big Bang happened is much different to physics today. For example during Big Bang there was no protons or electrons or neutrons, but today we have those, so if our view of Big Bang is correct, it has changed.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 09:34 PM
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JP, what those articles are saying is that gravity causes time or space to be bent, so time is everywhere, right?



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by surfup
JP, what those articles are saying is that gravity causes time or space to be bent, so time is everywhere, right?


Yes, I would say so. Time is everywhere, but time is relative which is why time is not constant everywhere.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 10:38 PM
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My thoughts on time are as follows. Time slows down as gravity increases. It is sort of like hitting a bump in the road that slows you down. As the space time matrix becomes denser (such as around a star or black hole) time slows down. I also think of time as something fluid that flows and permeates all of the known universe. I'm not sure if I read this theory somewhere but I believe time flows at the speed of light and may be related. The faster one travels relative to the speed of light and to the natural flow of time, the less time they will experience. For instance if you got into a rocket and traveled close to the speed of light, your seconds may be years on Earth.

Just my thoughts on time, but also since time may flow at the speed of light, photons may be timeless so to speak. Since photons (ie light) travels at the same speed as time itself, then the photon is the same age when it is emitted from an atom as when the photon is reabsorbed into the electron orbital energy of another atom. I don't recall reading this theory on time flowing at the speed of light but it makes sense to me. You might even consider that time flows across a given density of the space time matrix at an even rate. If the matrix is condensed, the time flow slows down because of the increased density. Hope this makes some sense to some people.

If you are asking about a place where time doesn't exist, then just imagine an explosion (the Big Bang). There are stars, galaxies and what we call space time rushing outwards from the center of the explosion for some 15 billion or so years. This is our universe. Our universe is by definition everything that we know of. We could say that nothing exists outside our bubble we call the universe. Outside of our universe beyond the expanding explosion of space and time, we could say there is no space, no time, and nothing at all. This does seem strange to think of our universe as a certain size but ever expanding into a void of nothing beyond the known universe. How would you like to imagine that our entire universe is but like a single molecule of a banana on a dinner table in a space so big that we will never see it?

[edit on 16-8-2004 by orionthehunter]

[edit on 16-8-2004 by orionthehunter]



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by jp1111
Yes, I would say so. Time is everywhere, but time is relative which is why time is not constant everywhere.


Because objects of different sizes have different influence on time, so when gravity increases time slows down?

I have another question, in the same book, I was reading about how black holes were discovered, its gravity influence on nearby stars caused them to rotate faster and faster as they get closer to be consumed by the black hole.

My question is if gravity is related to time and the black hole's gravity effect on the stars increases as the black hole pulls the stars, as a result doesn't time become slower? If that is so, then couldn't there be an object that would have negative effects on the stars, therefore causing time to go faster, if not backwards??? I have read of white objects, which some say to be the opposite of black hole. Is that true?



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
Since photons (ie light) travels atthe same speed as time itself, then the photon is the same age when it is emitted from an atom as when the photon is reabsorbed into the electron orbital energy of another atom.


So you are saying that photon doesn't experience time?


If the matrix is condensed, the time flow slows down because of the increased density. Hope this makes some sense to some people.


Does this relate to Black holes, because black holes are nothing but incredible amounts of mass put in very small space, so black holes have no time in them either?



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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I pretty much came up with my own theory about photons not experiencing time there. Someone else may have that theory too but I haven't checked into it. It just makes sense to me if you consider time flowing at the speed of light. Even considering time to be flowing might be considered another theory.

As far as what happens inside a black hole, that is something I haven't thought about too much.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
I pretty much came up with my own theory about photons not experiencing time there. Someone else may have that theory too but I haven't checked into it. It just makes sense to me if you consider time flowing at the speed of light. Even considering time to be flowing might be considered another theory.

As far as what happens inside a black hole, that is something I haven't thought about too much.


What makes you think Time is flowing, it could be standing still relative to space right? I think we should do experiment of how much a photon ages, if it ages to see if you are correct about time flowing the same speed as light.



posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 11:36 PM
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That would be an interesting question. How can you tell if a photon ages or experiences time? We can all say it takes time for a photon to travel from point a to point b. However if time is flowing at the same speed in a vacuum as the photon, then how would you measure this? I don't have an answer for that. I thought photons were like energy that stayed pretty much the same unless of course energy is converted into matter.



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