Completely agree, however I feel the main goal of this entire debacle was
a, push it out until after the election
b, Push it OUT UNTIL AFTER THE ELECTION FOR GODS SAKE< PUSH IT OUT!!!!
I think Mr B.O. now knows that he will be a one term wonder, and just does not want this to come crashing down around his ears with him at the
helm.
Instead he'll pass the buck, as Bush did, to the next fool. and giggle from the sidelines. But its OK he will have made plenty provision for himself
I am sure.
However my concern is, OK when this passes, they may have a little more time and printed money to play with. But just who is going to buy the bonds
now? They (the MSM) are already starting to say that the showboating that has been going on has already done the damage. and that the AAA rating is
still not certain. Becuase we all know now that with the word default being thrown around the place the last weeks, that the next time this comes back
up. the US will NOT be able to pay it's bills.
So someone please tell me, what is the difference between the US Gov being bailed out by the Fed Res and gets to keep it's AAA rating, and Greece
being bailed out by the EU Central Bank, and gets downgraded to D???
IMO None, absolutely none. Both still have to borrow to pay the bills. and the US's bill are massively bigger!
Terrible Development! Ridiculous Compromise yet again!, page 1
privacy
Topic started on 1-8-2011 @ 08:09 AM by getreadyalready
I wrote this up last night, it seems things have changed and the plan is basically a shoe in now. It is going to pass, and it is going to prolong and
deepen our suffering. It isn't going to work, and we are all encumbering our children for several more generations. I am ashamed. I have to look my
4 year old and 3 year old in the face and apologize for mortgaging their futures to get a little temporary relief from this economic nightmare.
Instead of fixing this ourselves, our elected leaders are voting to prolong this, deepen it, and leave it for our kids and grandkids to cleanup. They
won't be able to clean it up, because even this generation is too comfort and technology dependent to know how to cut back and scrimp a little.
Imagine how difficult it will be for the next generation when they are faced with similar circumstances, snowballed to a greater degree, and they have
even less survival skills than we do.
Today we murdered the future of our children with this compromise. I am saddened and disgusted, and I know it isn't just the government, we all had a part to play.
Here is the thread I wrote up last night, but this morning, it seems even worse than it did before I went to bed last night.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
MSNBC.com
This debt ceiling, spending/budget cut, and tax argument is ridiculous, and it is getting worse by the minute. This new bill is monstrous, has no teeth, has pretty good support, and won't do a dam thing to help! Here are my favorite parts from the article:
This is unsustainable!
We cannot allow programs to grow by 6, 7, and 9 percent per year, and we cannot continue to allow the military
spending to grow! These wars are supposed to be winding down and coming home, there is no justification for increases in spending!! This spending is
outrageous and should be stopped at all costs!
In other words. This giant bill, that nobody has read yet, and will only get a quick "briefing" today, will probably pass by all the middle of the road entrenched politicians. How odd a situation when the Right Wing Radical Tea Party, and the Left Wing Radical Progressives are the only ones making any sense these days? How bad is government when the extremists are the voice of reason?
What the hell? Really? The Treasury will give priority to interest payment to holders of Treasury Bonds? Instead of......I don't know.....paying people their Social Security and paying Soldiers for risking their lives at war!!! Seriously? This should ignite every American in the Country! If our Government truly sees interest payments as a priority in a limited funds scenario, instead of social programs, earned benefits from Social Security, and MILITARY PAYROLL, then the government is completely corrupt, out of touch, and criminal in nature!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
If our elected "radicals" in the Tea Party, and the Progressive movements can hold the line, we will all suffer a little bit of immediate shock and pain, and we will all have to make some temporary sacrifices, but as long as the government uses its head and pays the real priorities, then we can still recover from this economic nightmare. At this moment in time, we can still save the country, retain the current government, and fix this crisis through our normal economic and political means.
On the other hand, if these so-called radicals lose out to the entrenched politicians, and they allow programs to grow at the pace of 6-9% per year, then we are doomed. The future will be so encumbered that no amount of economic growth can save it, and we will be leaving this fight to our children and grand-children, and they will be even less equipped to deal with it than we are. In a couple of generations, people will be so technology dependent, that an economic crash will result in enormous peril and chaos. Our children and grand-children will not be able to fix this.
Or if the radicals win, but the Treasury decides to prioritize foreign investors and giant banks over its own citizens, then it is proof that this current government is entirely out of control, and it must be replaced. Impeachment or worse. A government that chooses to pay giant corporations, banking conglomerates, and foreign investors instead of taking care of its own people is not a government at all!
Earlier Discussion here. Missed it on first search.
Today we murdered the future of our children with this compromise. I am saddened and disgusted, and I know it isn't just the government, we all had a part to play.
Here is the thread I wrote up last night, but this morning, it seems even worse than it did before I went to bed last night.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
MSNBC.com
This debt ceiling, spending/budget cut, and tax argument is ridiculous, and it is getting worse by the minute. This new bill is monstrous, has no teeth, has pretty good support, and won't do a dam thing to help! Here are my favorite parts from the article:
The Congressional Budget Office has forecast that over the next 10 years defense spending will grow at an average rate of 2.3 percent a year, while Medicare will grow by nearly 7 percent a year, Medicaid by 9 percent a year and Social Security by nearly 6 percent a year.
This is unsustainable!
We cannot allow programs to grow by 6, 7, and 9 percent per year, and we cannot continue to allow the military
spending to grow! These wars are supposed to be winding down and coming home, there is no justification for increases in spending!! This spending is
outrageous and should be stopped at all costs! Even if all the Progressives and all Tea Party members were to vote ‘no,’ the opponents of the plan would still need to persuade 84 more House members to join with them in opposition in order to defeat the proposal.
In other words. This giant bill, that nobody has read yet, and will only get a quick "briefing" today, will probably pass by all the middle of the road entrenched politicians. How odd a situation when the Right Wing Radical Tea Party, and the Left Wing Radical Progressives are the only ones making any sense these days? How bad is government when the extremists are the voice of reason?
If the borrowing limit is reached, Geithner has said, the government will be forced to make a 40 percent cut in outlays. Geithner has been unwilling to discuss in public how the Treasury would manage its cash if it exhausts its borrowing ability.
But Bloomberg News reported Friday that the Treasury would give priority to making interest payments to holders of Treasury bonds if lawmakers fail to reach an agreement to raise the debt ceiling.
What the hell? Really? The Treasury will give priority to interest payment to holders of Treasury Bonds? Instead of......I don't know.....paying people their Social Security and paying Soldiers for risking their lives at war!!! Seriously? This should ignite every American in the Country! If our Government truly sees interest payments as a priority in a limited funds scenario, instead of social programs, earned benefits from Social Security, and MILITARY PAYROLL, then the government is completely corrupt, out of touch, and criminal in nature!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
If our elected "radicals" in the Tea Party, and the Progressive movements can hold the line, we will all suffer a little bit of immediate shock and pain, and we will all have to make some temporary sacrifices, but as long as the government uses its head and pays the real priorities, then we can still recover from this economic nightmare. At this moment in time, we can still save the country, retain the current government, and fix this crisis through our normal economic and political means.
On the other hand, if these so-called radicals lose out to the entrenched politicians, and they allow programs to grow at the pace of 6-9% per year, then we are doomed. The future will be so encumbered that no amount of economic growth can save it, and we will be leaving this fight to our children and grand-children, and they will be even less equipped to deal with it than we are. In a couple of generations, people will be so technology dependent, that an economic crash will result in enormous peril and chaos. Our children and grand-children will not be able to fix this.
Or if the radicals win, but the Treasury decides to prioritize foreign investors and giant banks over its own citizens, then it is proof that this current government is entirely out of control, and it must be replaced. Impeachment or worse. A government that chooses to pay giant corporations, banking conglomerates, and foreign investors instead of taking care of its own people is not a government at all!
Earlier Discussion here. Missed it on first search.
edit on 1-8-2011 by
getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 08:22 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by JakiusFogg
Exactly. No bank in their right mind takes a spendaholic that has reached their debt limit, has no method of repayment, has declining income, and is about to default, and then loans them more money? AND, if any stupid bank did such a thing, it certainly would not raise the credit rating of the borrower. Instead, the rating would be junk. The US has earned the right to have a piss-poor credit rating. We deserve it. We are not a good risk.
I agree, this was a political debacle to get out in front of the cameras, create a spectacle, and then take credit for a bipartisan compromise, while criticizing the fringe progressive left and fringe conservative tea party right.
This was a giant show to take power away from the freshman in government, take momentum away from the Tea Party, and put all the power back in the hands of the entrenched politicians.
And the worst part is that it actually seems to have worked.
The press will paint this as a great compromise, and too many of the
boob tube watchers will eat it up.
Exactly. No bank in their right mind takes a spendaholic that has reached their debt limit, has no method of repayment, has declining income, and is about to default, and then loans them more money? AND, if any stupid bank did such a thing, it certainly would not raise the credit rating of the borrower. Instead, the rating would be junk. The US has earned the right to have a piss-poor credit rating. We deserve it. We are not a good risk.
I agree, this was a political debacle to get out in front of the cameras, create a spectacle, and then take credit for a bipartisan compromise, while criticizing the fringe progressive left and fringe conservative tea party right.
This was a giant show to take power away from the freshman in government, take momentum away from the Tea Party, and put all the power back in the hands of the entrenched politicians.
And the worst part is that it actually seems to have worked.
The press will paint this as a great compromise, and too many of the
boob tube watchers will eat it up.reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 08:38 AM by Crakeur
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
it ensures they get their paychecks and it pushes the potential economic collapse into the next term.
it ensures they get their paychecks and it pushes the potential economic collapse into the next term.
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 09:09 AM by Cloudsinthesky
What really bothers me is how the “GOV” uses fear tactics against the American people by using Social Security, Medicare, contractor checks and so
on to pass legislation…………
One area that is rarely mentioned on MSM and by the politicians is foreign aid. Billions go overseas which I consider nothing more than a money laundry scheme of the US tax dollar every year.
If we don't have a balanced budget and Americans are suffering across the board..........NO Foreign Aid........
No one will be sending the US money once we become a third world country..........Instead they will occupy!
Wake Up America!!
Here is the 2012 foreign budget………….
www.state.gov...
www.state.gov...
One area that is rarely mentioned on MSM and by the politicians is foreign aid. Billions go overseas which I consider nothing more than a money laundry scheme of the US tax dollar every year.
If we don't have a balanced budget and Americans are suffering across the board..........NO Foreign Aid........
No one will be sending the US money once we become a third world country..........Instead they will occupy!
Wake Up America!!
Here is the 2012 foreign budget………….
This funding supports diplomats and development experts who are working every day to protect
our national security, promote our economic growth, and project our values in virtually every
country on Earth. They are carrying out a robust foreign policy that is leading the world in
solving the most complex challenges of our time, from thwarting international terrorism to
stopping the spread of catastrophic weapons, fixing the global economy, and advancing human
rights and universal values. They are helping identify and prevent conflicts before they start.
They are helping to secure nuclear materials, fight international crime, assist human rights
defenders, restore our alliances, promote the rights of women and girls, and ensure global
economic stability.
Secretary Clinton
The President’s FY 2012 Budget for the Department of State and the U.S. Agency for
International Development (USAID) furthers United States national security, advances
America’s economic interests, protects Americans at home and abroad, elevates
America’s global leadership through diplomacy and development, and reflects our
values.
The Department of State/USAID budget for sustainable, long-term investments in
operations and assistance totals $47.0 billion1—only 1 percent more than comparable
FY 2010 levels. The request provides the necessary resources for diplomats and
development experts to address complex threats to our national security.
Core Foreign Assistance (including food aid): $32.9 billion
Core Department of State Operations: $14.2 billion
www.state.gov...
www.state.gov...
edit on 1-8-2011 by Cloudsinthesky because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 09:09 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by Crakeur
I hope he is right, but I'm not so sure. I think if the MSM repeats something enough, the majority of the people will eventually believe it. If the MSM comes out and chants, "These guys are heroes, they struck a last minute deal, put aside partisan politics and compromised." As long as every channel repeats it over and over all day for this whole week, the majority of the population will swallow it. It is very sad.
Media has become so good at influencing our thoughts. I can't hardly watch a television anymore, because it literally makes me ill to see the commercials. I also watch my kids, and they "need" everything the commercials tell them they need. Poor kids, the more they need it, the more stuff I take away from them, lol! Not in a mean way, just that I redirect them to something else besides the TV and their toys, and we rarely buy any toys these days.
If the estimates are correct, and these programs grow by 6-9% per year, and the military spending continues to increase despite the ending of these several wars, and the debt continues to grow, I honestly do not see any possibility of solving the crisis in the future. This was our last shot, and we failed miserably!
He then said that they simply don't realize that the people are beyond fed up with the antics in DC and that the days of posturing are over.
I hope he is right, but I'm not so sure. I think if the MSM repeats something enough, the majority of the people will eventually believe it. If the MSM comes out and chants, "These guys are heroes, they struck a last minute deal, put aside partisan politics and compromised." As long as every channel repeats it over and over all day for this whole week, the majority of the population will swallow it. It is very sad.
Media has become so good at influencing our thoughts. I can't hardly watch a television anymore, because it literally makes me ill to see the commercials. I also watch my kids, and they "need" everything the commercials tell them they need. Poor kids, the more they need it, the more stuff I take away from them, lol! Not in a mean way, just that I redirect them to something else besides the TV and their toys, and we rarely buy any toys these days.
If the estimates are correct, and these programs grow by 6-9% per year, and the military spending continues to increase despite the ending of these several wars, and the debt continues to grow, I honestly do not see any possibility of solving the crisis in the future. This was our last shot, and we failed miserably!
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 09:23 AM by dolphinfan
reply to post by getreadyalready
You're exactly right. This was a meaningless resolution. A far better solution would have been to simply raise the debt ceiling by exactly the same amount as cuts and move to a honest base lined budget model for the federal government.
When the politicans come out suggesting that they "cut 3%", little do the majority of folks know that they are cutting projected increases from 8% to 5%. The budget games have to stop and there needs to be structural reforms to do that.
The only hope is that the Tea Party will be emboldened and will drive a hard bargin through the November deadline. At least we have the across the board triggers in place, which while next to nothing is something.
The strategy, to the extent that folks can do it is get out of debt. Don't buy a house, don't take out a loan, hunker down because its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Has anything here done anything to improve the level of uncertainty in the market such that it would provide a basis for a business to take risks and hire? NO. If anything it has increased the uncertainty as it has not only pushed the nonsense out several months but has also placed on public display the deep divisions and sheer incompetence in our elected officials. Unemployment will go up again in August.
You're exactly right. This was a meaningless resolution. A far better solution would have been to simply raise the debt ceiling by exactly the same amount as cuts and move to a honest base lined budget model for the federal government.
When the politicans come out suggesting that they "cut 3%", little do the majority of folks know that they are cutting projected increases from 8% to 5%. The budget games have to stop and there needs to be structural reforms to do that.
The only hope is that the Tea Party will be emboldened and will drive a hard bargin through the November deadline. At least we have the across the board triggers in place, which while next to nothing is something.
The strategy, to the extent that folks can do it is get out of debt. Don't buy a house, don't take out a loan, hunker down because its going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Has anything here done anything to improve the level of uncertainty in the market such that it would provide a basis for a business to take risks and hire? NO. If anything it has increased the uncertainty as it has not only pushed the nonsense out several months but has also placed on public display the deep divisions and sheer incompetence in our elected officials. Unemployment will go up again in August.
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 09:31 AM by getreadyalready
reply to post by Cloudsinthesky
Clouds, I entirely agree.
A real government "of the people, for the people, and by the people" would cut all foreign aid, then delay interest payments to bond holders, possibly go through with the Ron Paul plan to forgive the debt we owe between the Fed and the Treasury, protect the social programs in the immediate term, but look at making the hard decisions to scale back the benefits and let everyone share in the pain a little bit.
There would be a hyper-inflation backlash, but that could be dealt with by limiting bank exposure and requiring banks to increase their reserves. That combination has the added benefit of shoring up the shoddy lending practices of banks and increasing interest rates on deposits!
There are real solutions out there, but they are ignored. A Flat tax, or a Fair Tax plan would be an improvement. Major Budget Cuts are necessary. Job creation is necessary, but not financed by tax burden on those already working. Yes, cutting foreign aid and foreign exposure is necessary. Scaling back military is necessary....in fact, I would rather see the foreign intelligence budget increased, the Patriot Act repealed, and the military brought home. We have the technology, training and skilled warriors to fight these wars in very narrow theatres with very clear mission agendas. We don't need large scale war anymore.
Clouds, I entirely agree.
A real government "of the people, for the people, and by the people" would cut all foreign aid, then delay interest payments to bond holders, possibly go through with the Ron Paul plan to forgive the debt we owe between the Fed and the Treasury, protect the social programs in the immediate term, but look at making the hard decisions to scale back the benefits and let everyone share in the pain a little bit.
There would be a hyper-inflation backlash, but that could be dealt with by limiting bank exposure and requiring banks to increase their reserves. That combination has the added benefit of shoring up the shoddy lending practices of banks and increasing interest rates on deposits!
There are real solutions out there, but they are ignored. A Flat tax, or a Fair Tax plan would be an improvement. Major Budget Cuts are necessary. Job creation is necessary, but not financed by tax burden on those already working. Yes, cutting foreign aid and foreign exposure is necessary. Scaling back military is necessary....in fact, I would rather see the foreign intelligence budget increased, the Patriot Act repealed, and the military brought home. We have the technology, training and skilled warriors to fight these wars in very narrow theatres with very clear mission agendas. We don't need large scale war anymore.
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 11:02 AM by getreadyalready
Apparently it isn't a done deal just yet? A lot of rumors that they don't have the votes!!
CNN 2 minutes ago
Fox News reporting that an online poll shows 93% oppose this compromise!!
Most Headlines saying it is a bad deal Of course the mainstream party goers like McCain are voting for it, despite their troubling issues with it. The question is why? Why would they vote for something they think won't work?
CNN 2 minutes ago
It remains unclear whether congressional leaders have the votes to ensure the bill's passage, particularly in the House. Democrats are livid over the extent of the deal's domestic spending cuts, as well as the absence of any immediate tax hikes on wealthier Americans. A number of Republicans are worried about cuts in defense spending and the lack of a required balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.
"This isn't the greatest deal in the world," Boehner said, according to excerpts of his remarks. "But it shows how much we've changed the terms of the debate in this town."
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, refused to immediately endorse the deal, and said she would meet with fellow House Democrats on Monday to discuss it.
"I don't know all the particulars of what the final product is in writing and what the ramifications will be," Pelosi said Sunday night.
Asked about the outcome, she warned: "We all may not be able to support it, or none of us may be able to support it."
Fox News reporting that an online poll shows 93% oppose this compromise!!
Most Headlines saying it is a bad deal Of course the mainstream party goers like McCain are voting for it, despite their troubling issues with it. The question is why? Why would they vote for something they think won't work?
edit on 1-8-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 1-8-2011 @ 11:43 AM by Eurisko2012
Originally posted by getreadyalready
Apparently it isn't a done deal just yet? A lot of rumors that they don't have the votes!!
CNN 2 minutes ago
It remains unclear whether congressional leaders have the votes to ensure the bill's passage, particularly in the House. Democrats are livid over the extent of the deal's domestic spending cuts, as well as the absence of any immediate tax hikes on wealthier Americans. A number of Republicans are worried about cuts in defense spending and the lack of a required balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.
"This isn't the greatest deal in the world," Boehner said, according to excerpts of his remarks. "But it shows how much we've changed the terms of the debate in this town."
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California, refused to immediately endorse the deal, and said she would meet with fellow House Democrats on Monday to discuss it.
"I don't know all the particulars of what the final product is in writing and what the ramifications will be," Pelosi said Sunday night.
Asked about the outcome, she warned: "We all may not be able to support it, or none of us may be able to support it."
Fox News reporting that an online poll shows 93% oppose this compromise!!
Most Headlines saying it is a bad deal Of course the mainstream party goers like McCain are voting for it, despite their troubling issues with it. The question is why? Why would they vote for something they think won't work?
edit on 1-8-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)
Only 93% oppose??? OK, lets just ram it through anyway.
After we pass it then the American people can find out what's inside it.
----------------
Those knuckleheads in Washington DC need to STOP governing AGAINST the will
of the American people.
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