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Dear Elitist Atheists

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posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:19 PM
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First off I am not attacking anyone nor should you attack me. It seems some Atheists have this "SMARTER THAN YOU" attitude. And apparently I'm not the only person who sees this.

ArionVII has some words about this topic from a reddit post.


This is a summary of my current thoughts on atheism, and our recent collective behavior. Please, I'm begging you, consider this carefully, and don't downvote on instinct. You may just even agree with me.

It's come to my attention that there's a very strong "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to our dealings with religious individuals. There's a large amount of antagonism present within our community, which I feel is counter productive. Hear me out.

Look, we're treating religion as if its an intellectual problem. It is not. If you consider the matter solely philosophically, then sure. Using pure reason, the illogicality of religion is clear as day, and when this community stumbles across that kind of ignorance, it's very easy to be vehement and condescending. And not without good reason! There's a certain schadenfreude in "owning xtians on facebook", and making rage comics where we can give a particularly ill-thought out reply in defense of religion our collective incredularity. But you have to understand (and this took me a long time to understand, certainly), that religion is not an intellectual game.

When you enter into a debate with a religious person, the argument, from our perspective, is a logical one. We are cold, calculating, and beautifully ruthless. Yes, we can cut apart the vast majority of arguments in the defense of religion easily, and I can understand your frustration when the religious close their ears! But from their point of view, the argument is not intellectual at all. It is emotional. You're attacking an institution that they've grown up with, that's provided them with friends, positive experiences, and general good times. By attacking religion, you're calling all that positive experience baseless. The end result is that the person you're talking to cannot help but defend all those good memories and associations, even if their logicality suffers in the process.

"Humans are not rational animals, they are rationalizing animals"

said Heinlein, and I believe this holds. And honestly, most people do not evaluate their worldview critically and intellectually without great prompt. They will certainly not do so in an emotionally charged environment.

I'm not saying we back down from our positions, but only use a kinder, gentler machine-gun hand, to quote Neil Young.

I admire Richard Dawkins. I do. The man is brilliant. But I do think he's an asshole. It is exactly this specific point that he fails to understand, and he wields his razor mind without the slightest finesse of empathy. Neil deGrasse Tyson raised this exact point with Dawkins, formulated slightly differently.

While I commend him for asking this question, I cannot accept his acceptance of Dawkins' reply. Dawkins, although humorous, is dodging the question, and for a community with such logical skill, I am in disbelief that you would accept this logical fallacy of his. Tyson is right. Dawkins' cutting edge of tongue alienates the religious, it does not persuade them.

You have to remember that in heart, the religious are just like us. Most of them do not believe in the moral absolutism of scripture, and really, are just trying to be good people in the best way they know how. Their emotional intent is sound and secure, it's just that their intellectual worldview is incorrect. I'm worried that we very often cross over the line in our criticism of religion, and are focusing much more on our differences than our (much more numerous) commonalities. If the religious perceive that we are criticizing their intent, the response will be emotional backlash. We will get nowhere. The religious are not stupid sheep, nor are they mindless drones. They're just operating within the system they always have. This is a relatively minor crime, and certainly does not deserve the scorn which we give it.

Please, all I'm asking for is a little more empathy on our part, for everyone's sake.

tl;dr: The religious are emotionally tied to their beliefs, and a purely intellectual assault will only make them defensive. If we want to be persuasive as a community, we need to recognize this fact.


Now I have to agree. I get tired of Atheists (it isn't all of you don't get me wrong) taking up this scientific argument thinking that just because they have seen through the religious establishment that they are suddenly a scientist.

I feel like this view is with a lot of younger people and I don't know why that is. Perhaps its because a lot of scientists are atheists.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you see the elitist attitude or is it only me?

Source: www.reddit.com...
edit on 7/31/2011 by drew1749 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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Lol. I don't see the atheists being jerks here....I do keep seeing religious nuts posting crap on a daily basis.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by JustinSee
 


I wasn't talking about this board.

Am I one of those religious nuts? If so...sadface.avi



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by drew1749
 


Honestly I am sick of seeing it here. In this kind of place your just asking for a drawn out argument thats been had over and over, and the Jesus lovers eventually end up repeating a few choice statements when they are finally bested. Now, I'm no Athiest- but I subscribe to nothing....and feel that these cosmic ideas are quite beyond human comprehension. You may find that alot of Athiest WOULD believe in some of these grand concepts personally...but they wood sooner wait for some kind of evidence....or some kind of understanding. Regardless the religious nuts keep on trying to convert convert convert. Somebody give it a rest.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by JustinSee
 


I'm not trying to convert anyone. You may feel that way but this is a message board dedicated to religion. lol if you don't like discussion of Christianity you should probably leave.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by drew1749
 


No, its fine. You can just see where the conversation will go in most cases. Personally, I'm just saddened that so many people subscribe to antique morality pamphlets....in this day and age.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by drew1749
 



The religious are not stupid sheep, nor are they mindless drones.




Oh and...



Did I mention...




posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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Man, its not even just athiests either! ANYONE who thinks they have the ABSOLUTE, NO OTHER WAY answer, is kidding themselves. S&F



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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religion is responsible for the death of millions, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT!



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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Nice quoted text, I think in a similar manner. I'm not an atheist, and I think "elitist" atheist are just as emotionally/intellectually biased as many religious people; they wield logic as if the word itself is the all-powerful, end-all reaction to any spiritual inquisition. As an agnostic, I don't think it's fair to say there's no other higher being apart from us/animals, as fact.

Strange because many of these same people tout their beliefs in nth dimensional aliens and other sentient lifeforms that many exist throughout the universe, yet they can't wrap their heads around a being that may exist outside the universe as a creator. They would like to believe the universe created itself, and that an infinitely small and dense singularity, instantaneously sprouted into everything from star matter to consciousness itself. People who actually believe that, are in my eyes more naive and counter-intuitive than even those who blindly follow religion. Care to argue on it? I'd like to comprehend your "logic".



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Dear Religous person,

The making of an Atheist implies a mental stimulation and training which brings into play the primary factors of social progress. Joseph McCabe


I do hope you find this quote elitist enough for you.

Get well soon.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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I just feel like Athiests are becoming more militant, more organized, more...well, more of an identity. Like a more formal group. I don't think it used to be this way even 5 years ago but now I see so many books on Athiesm in the bookstore and there are "athiest clubs" and so on.

I accept it is a personal choice whether to accept Christ's offer of salvation or to roast for all eternity. That is, ultimately, your choice, as God gave us free will.

So I don't object on that level.

But I am starting to be creeped out by the new brand of militant athiest I'm seeing crop up around us...

But we shouldn't really be surprised, should we?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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Well written article and I have to agree on most every point made. When we argue against religion we can get... a little sharp - but that is our emotional side coming out, and at least a small dose of frustration.

If I've offended anyone in my rantings, my apologies.

Khar



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by Partygirl
 


Look this thread my basic point is. If you're atheist lovely that's great for you. But I don't care when I tell you I can't hang out because I have church don't get on your high horse about how stupid I am for going to church. Shut your mouth and let me go.

It isn't any of your business.

Sorry personal experience but a lot of people on ats have this attitude.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:53 AM
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Christians posting their usual thing on a conspiracy website forum are going to have their beliefs examined – challenged - then ripped to shreds, how can it be otherwise?

The internet is a market place for ideas and so when Christians offer up their religion for consideration and much of the world finds it to be nothing more than cheap shoddy rubbish easily dismissed then whose fault is that?

The internet, where religions come to die

edit on 1-8-2011 by racasan because: edit to add vid

edit on 1-8-2011 by racasan because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-8-2011 by racasan because: grammer



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by racasan
 


The internet where nobody can get along no matter.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:18 AM
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reply to post by drew1749
 


Its horses for courses
I use facebook to keep up with what my friends and family are doing and I have even used it to make contact with old school friends ect – so when I’m using that bit of the internet to socialise its great

“Above top secret” for example is a place where people bring ideas to be examined and most of the time it works great at that but what “Above top secret” is not, is a religious pulpit and anybody who makes the mistake of thinking it is will run into problems



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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Science > Religion

END OF

If you disagree then please disconnect your computer and never again log onto the interwebs or ATS and I will never open another religious book.

That is all, carry on.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:53 AM
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atheists are a minority in this world, the vast majority on the the planet earth follow a religion and believe in God. Why do you care what atheists think? It's a minority view, it is no way challenging the worlds religions.

Just get over it. If you are so confident in your religions, why does it matter that some people dont believe in them?

Unless your not 100% sure that is.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by JustinSee
Lol.[color=gold] I don't see the atheists being jerks here....I do keep seeing religious nuts posting crap on a daily basis.



Here is some evidence of exactly what is quoted in the opening post.


David Grouchy







edit on 1-8-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)



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