Famine in East Africa: Why Does Nobody Care?

Originally posted by klenker

Originally posted by theblackirish7
reply to post by Kram09


people from England should not talk # about America.
1) you great country raped and pillaged the world from 1497 when they discovered a trade route to asia to 1914 when the first world war started.
2) ww1 and ww2 America saved your ass
3) at least the US is giving foreign aid when we are on top , unlike the British crown

Ironically, if it were not for them, youd be where?

Sometimes people need to think harder, the world is a bad place. Bad things happen.

but it's so easy to point the finger...

He'd probably still be in europe I guess. Oh the humaaaaanity.

Truth is the british empire were one of the evilest empires ever on earth.

In ww2 america saved no ones ass. If anything germany saved us from stalin.

In ww2 america saved no ones ass. If anything germany saved us from stalin.

Interesting I think we here in the north are seing things the other way around.

That Stalin actually saved the world from Hitler.

Well it is all depending on whom you ask I guess.

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


i am angered aswell only of the fact of two things, firstly: how can the heartless governenment leaders there sit back and let women and children starve to death, secondly, i am outraged that the australia media can play the mammine crisis so much but the fact in ughanda i think it is? Gays and lesbians are being rounded up and locked up just for the fact their gays and lesbians, people are being locked up for being born a certain way! its wrong!

reply to post by kykweer


They did help alot and you cannot deny that, along side other countries.

This debating over who helped who in WW2, and all the finger pointing is not helpful at all. And is derailing this thread.

Try and stay on topic thank you

Originally posted by NeoSpace
I know most people will dissagree with me but I belive Africa is a lost cause and every dollar spent on them is a dollar wasted.

Im 25 and for my whole life we have been giving aid to Africa, my mum is 50 and Africa have been reciving aid her whole life and what has changed in 50 years, Nothing
They are still sitting there waiting for handouts

So why do women over there have children every year when they'r homeless and can barley feed themselves.

edit on 1-8-2011 by NeoSpace because: (no reason given)

I couldn't agree more.

While we are at it, why give aid to unemployed people in america, or the old or the paraplegic. Stop soup kitchen in fact shoot all the homeless people...

Surely that's according to the same humanitarian scale your suggesting?

reply to post by Kram09


Nice mature response. You must be from England, a nation the size of Michigan when you can get to another country in the time it takes to get about 1/5 the distance across the US. Give up the tired notions of the sophistication of the Europeans (and British) regarding their worldly travel and take a look at something called a map. By the way I do have a passport and it has a bunch of stamps on it, including about 12 from your great country.

As far as the disaster in Africa, it is as clear an example of the idiocy of UN there is. We have several thousands of folks in NYC making emotional speaches about global warming and we have humanitarian disasters in several places around the world. Solving those problems should be priority 1 for the UN and if it can not tackle them, the UN should be disbanded.

Problems in Africa are not the responsibility of NATO and engagement in Africa would be against the NATO charter. The African National Congress is in place to deal with matters that occur on the continent of Africa, yet they too are unable to effectively address these problems, nor even really attempt to.

Ultimately the issue comes down to the fact that there are a number of countries in Africa that simply can not exist as nation states. They don't have the resources, either human capital, natural resources or infrastructure to become self sufficient and viable nations. Until we address the need to redraw the map and parcel the territory out to those countries in Africa that are viable, this problem will never go away.

Somalians make up about 1% of the population of Africa. The rest of the countries in the continent can certainly absorb them. If it was the part of a real and long term solution, other countries such as the US should take a percentage of them. Despite our current challenges, we can afford absorbing a few hundred thousand additional people. Unless you are willing to disolve the country, parcel out its territories and patriate the roughly 10 million people into viable countries, this problem will not go away. How awful it is, and it is awful, the world should not continue to support a nation state that really has no hope to achieve self sustainability. Somalia is a failed state and has been one for decades. Is there any real hope that it will be anything other than a failed state? No. Its time to think outside the box and deal effectively with the humanitarian challenges there.

reply to post by Hilltaker


Ok its off topic lol sorry...

But yeah I'm from south africa where the ruling party is a bunch of socialists. You know? We are all equal some are just more equal types?

Oh and they think cuba is an amazing country and we fought wars against russian aided armies.

So hopefully you understand my bias towards communism.


Which infact brings us back on topic. The deeper you go into africa the more you see effects of socialism and totalitatianism. So while everyone is supposed to be equal and work for each other the more the guys on top take just like stalin did...

Instead of having an autobahn from cape town to cairo...

I don't support hitler but compared to stalin he is the lesser of two evils.

Originally posted by theblackirish7
reply to post by Kram09


people from England should not talk # about America.
1) you great country raped and pillaged the world from 1497 when they discovered a trade route to asia to 1914 when the first world war started.
2) ww1 and ww2 America saved your ass
3) at least the US is giving foreign aid when we are on top , unlike the British crown

You're right,Britain has a lot to answer for especially for the mess that it left in the former African colonies and it certainly learned a serious lesson in 1776 at the hand of your forefathers.

However,to state that the US saved our "ass" in WW1 AND 2 is somewhat simplistic,when did America enter the fray during WW1?,that's right when it was all over bar the shouting.And the British,commonwealth and French forces had already negated the German threat.You might also wish to research Pershing's senseless actions at the end of the war when he sent thousands of American sevicemen to their deaths in an uneccesary action.

WW2 is somewhat different,but who stopped the might of the luftwaffe on its own while your senator Joe Kennedy dithered on the sidelines? waiting to see if Britain was worth saving.

Sure without US involvement,the chances are that overlord would never have happened,but the RAF were bombing Germany to rubble every night and even without the eigth airforce(whose men I have nothing but complete admiration for) daylight campaign,Germany's ability to sustain war production would have been stopped,it may have taken a further 6 months or so,but it would have happened,remember the soviets were coming in from the East also.

You are giving foreign aid while Britain does nothing? well what is the price to these countries for your "aid"?

The point is, britain and europe need to foot the bill for their colonies.

Also America, russia, china france and britain makes a lot of money out of africa, they will continue giving just enough aid to keep people alive longer to use their weapons and drugs etc.

So all those complaining about giving aid, stop selling weapons first. These africans don't habe it in them to manufacture weapons or "bling".

Originally posted by Adyta
I look at the famine in Africa, and honestly, I'm done giving a damn. Why? I think we need to stop helping Africa because they REFUSE to help themselves. They sit in their mud huts all day and bang out a kid every nine months, and don't make any effort to learn anything that would help them. They just walk over to the Peace Corps tent 3 times a day and get their free food.

We've been sending them assistance constantly for decades. We send Peace Corps volunteers to teach them how to grow crops, build structures more advanced than dirt and water, dig wells, domesticate animals, etc. and they STILL cannot take care of themselves. The only conclusion is a complete unwillingness to learn.

We send UN troops to defend them against gangs and death squads, and they kill the UN troop for his iPod or his watch.

And you want ME to continue to care? You want me to feel bad for them? Look at every other nation on Earth, and you'll see it's only the African ones that have not advanced beyond the stone age... actually, they havn't yet even advanced into the stone age.

Africa had their chance. We tried to help, yet they refuse to put forth any effort to help themselves. Instead, they would rather starve to death on some of the most fertile farm land on the planet.

I say we just sit back and let natural selection run it's course.

edit on 7/31/2011 by Adyta because: (no reason given)

ZING

Had to quote this to help get it across to some.

It is common sense - if you are unable to feed yourself, why then have a child - you know you will be unable to feed it either. The only part I disagree with is the most fertile farm land, these areas effected at the moment are very hostile - very little will grow there.....but that also comes back to common sense - if the area is unable to support human life - then get out (and you don't need an ounce of education to realize this)

Is it insensitive, sure it is, but it is reality. I would prefer looking out for my own country then some third world. We have already sunk trillions in aid to Africa, time for them to look out for themselves.

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


England government care this stuff was implemented around march 2011 1. UK aid allocations to help build peace and stability in Somalia could rise from £26m in 2010/11 to £80m per year over the next three years, depending on the results achieved by 2013/14.

2. UK aid is channelled through UN agencies and other well established and trusted partners, with tough safeguards to ensure that the aid is used properly on the ground. Our key UN partners will be the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), the International Labour Organisation (ILO), UN Development Programme (UNDP), UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF), the Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) and UN Population Fund (UNFPA).

We may work with the World Food Programme (WFP) if we are convinced that their controls have improved. Although FAO and ILO scored poorly in DFID’s review of multilateral aid, evidence suggests that in Somalia they can deliver. We will monitor this closely.

3. We expect that most of our support to Somali NGOs will be through international NGOs.

4. UK Secretary of State Andrew Mitchell visited Hargesia on January 31, where he explained that 40 percent of UK’s aid to Somalia will go to Somaliland. Somaliland has shown that greater democracy and stable government are possible, even in this difficult country.

And we have increased aid for the famine additionally every year we have red nose day where the whole country raises money for charity a whole spectrum of them . Last years comic relief raised £75 million pounds from a country that has around 55 million people. its quite incredible.

reply to post by kykweer


I'm trying to figure out what the British Colonists, WW2, Cuba and South Africa has to do with this thread. Strange no one mentioned the Dutch Boers.

We all know little has changed in South Africa; the black people are still exploited by the white colonists making hundreds of millions of $$$ by paying black African workers less than minimal wages that border on slavery no different as they did during Apartheid South Africa.

Yet on the other hand, Rhodesian white farmers fed the nation only to be murdered, kicked out or they ran for their lives. Now Zimbabwe (old Rhodesia) can't feed even 1/3 of their population.

Yes the British colonists made a mess but they also did some good by building infrastructure and brought agriculture to Africa and India......only to be spurned. Personally I think they should had dug their heels in, Africa and India would'nt have these problems today if the colonists stayed.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by kykweer

 

I'm trying to figure out what the British Colonists, WW2, Cuba and South Africa has to do with this thread. Strange no one mentioned the Dutch Boers.

We all know little has changed in South Africa; the black people are still exploited by the white colonists making hundreds of millions of $$$ by paying black African workers less than minimal wages that border on slavery no different as they did during Apartheid South Africa.

Yet on the other hand, Rhodesian white farmers fed the nation only to be murdered, kicked out or they ran for their lives. Now Zimbabwe (old Rhodesia) can't feed even 1/3 of their population.

Yes the British colonists made a mess but they also did some good by building infrastructure and brought agriculture to Africa and India......only to be spurned. Personally I think they should had dug their heels in, Africa and India would'nt have these problems today if the colonists stayed.

I know I got a lil off topic lol but I didn't bring up ww2, but we are talking about african leaders.

Yes the apartheid government exploited black people and other white people to a lesser degree, but to say they starved black people is outrageous, how could you farm and not sell your products to the bigger part of your country? No one is that stupid.

Black people are being controlled all over the continent by their own people and fear, fear of imperialists fear of starvation and fear of death and also by large western corporations who use these puppets for their own gain.

I agree that the working class are being taken advantage of and ill support them (as a white south african), but fear mongering is just how africa works(or doesn't work) and black people are worse off in countries like south africa while pertaining an image of freedom, while its only a minor few who are actually "free".

Same can be said for the rest of Africa.

I agree colonialists should have stayed, but when they set up the IMF, mining companies and after the abolishment of slavery, they had no more use for african people.

Americans like to boast about what a great and powerful country they are and how they're always bailing people out, but really that's just nonsense.

The fact of the matter is the United States never does ANYTHING unless it serves it's own self-interests.

So cut all this cr** about how wonderful and benign the United States is, because it isn't and it never has been or ever will be.

But you're all happy to wave the flags and boast about how great your country is when your aircraft are bombing people....

America is the most powerful country in the world, but it's funny how they always try to deflect and blame it onto other people. "The UN should do more, China should help etc etc."

America has great power but they don't use it for the better and they only use it when it suits them.

How much has this famine figured in the U.S media? I'm betting hardly at all. Most Americans would struggle to locate Somalia....infact they'd struggle to locate Africa, let alone Somalia.

Originally posted by kykweer
He'd probably still be in europe I guess. Oh the humaaaaanity.

No, he would not exist at all.

That was my point. For all the bad things people whinge about now, they have it to thank for the very breath they take.

Or do people just exist?

reply to post by Kram09


completely agree if the Haiti earthquake happend in Africa , America wouldn't have flinched a muscle yet because it happened in south america where they need support and influence they get involved.

reply to post by Wirral Bagpuss


I am nearly 50 and have remembered all my life Africa is starving at the brink of mass death. All my life America and I'm hoping other countries have gave money, food, medical supplies, try to educate them, but somewhere between the giving and the receiving something is going wrong. Either their government is not giving it out, or as a earlier poster stated they give it to the soldiers. Then we face the Pakistan floods back a few years ago remember those people starving, again we Americans opened our wallets and gave-shared. Haiti, what about Haiti, we Americans opened our wallets and gave-shared...Did the people their receive? no because their government stole it all and in turn sells it to the poor for major profits...it happens every time in nearly every situation, know, here in our country we face a economic crises, ( ya I know the world is praying we fall, its obvious with all the American hate threads I read ) but you know what world, we Americans cant give right know, we are barely making it ourselves, we do have families becoming homeless by the thousands, children don't eat right, they make the poor have to buy fast food ( very bad for your health ) because at $1.00 a hamburger ( which is probably not even real meat ) $1.00 fries you can feed your hungry children. TO prepare a meal at home would be 2 to 3 times more expensive. Finally Americans are starting to help ourselves first. Remember world we American citizens are not the government.
I saw that African crises on msm, and I do feel extremely bad and sorrowful for them, but, me first, then if i have extra I will try to help.
And I have a solution to their starvation issues, sterilize them for a few years, They rely solely on the world feeding them they shouldn't be having babies. This sounds Calais butttt, its true.

its east africa. this is america. i'm standing by ron paul on this one. let the east africans worry and spend their own hard earned cash on it. plus people in africa have been starving for hundreds of years, why change their way of life now?

I am saddened by the callousness, and detachment of many on this thread. Have you forgotten what it is to be human? Have we glorified the self so much that we can no longer feel empathy?

ME ME ME! Mine. Take care of ME. I AM THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE! MY wants are the only thing that matter. Everything else except what impacts ME is secondary.

I do not understand this attitude. It is a sickness of the heart and soul when you can no longer think of anyone except yourself. Every person is on this spinning speck of dirt together. We may differ tremendously, but we all have commonalities. Try to imagine your mother, your child, or your friend starving to death. Can you imagine doing nothing to help?

reply to post by lbndhr


People give millions of pounds to charities helping these kinds of situations, and a lot of the money goes to the retrospective governments. And we wonder why we don't see the aid?

Well if aid is guns, Mercedes cars and luxury homes for the leaders whilst their country starves I'm not surprised we don't see this aid. Saying people don't care it's stupid.

I don't mean to be harsh or anything, but this stuff happens quite a lot and there's massive front pages with "AFRICA STARVES". Over population, poorly run governments and poor resourcing is the cause of this.

Population rates in LEDC's soar due to lack of education in contraception, belief systems and ignorance. Before western influences this never happened, and when we pump money into their economies for their governments to spend on arms and propaganda and other things that don't really help anyone in the situations. Really giving them money makes it worse. In my eyes anyway. Send them food, water and grain, useful things, some charities do, but some do not!