Was god a programmer?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
reply to post by Gravity215

 

As mentioned in my own thread on the topic, if God is a programmer then who constructed him?

Working on the assumption we are all really little bits of code floating around here, there and everywhere. "Life" as we know it is simply a pre programmed set of variables (which we cannot see) and God is the masterful programmer, where did God come from?

In a universe where we have no idea on the physics that exists, did somebody have to invent him. The foundation of the argument in the god delusion was that the universe is not infinite so how could god be. Because this universe we observe could possibly have its own set of physics and not necessarily be the same in the parent universe, could it be that that universe is eternal and the programmer of that universe is also eternal.

On the other hand, we could be looking at a thirteenth floor type scenario with infinite recursion, this universe is a a virtual construct within a virtual construct within a virtual construct within a virtual construct and so on..

Who knows.. but what we do know, is that we don't know what our parent existence could be like apart from what theology has to offer. Theology says the creator is eternal.

reply to post by Gravity215

You are basically right.

And don't get confused by the people who can think of reasons why your idea is illogical. Life just isn't very logical.

Here are some other possibilities you might consider:

(I am not an MMO player so bear with me.)

1) Does the actuality of the game occur in anything other than the present instant?

1.5) If the computer system crashed, would the game still run?

2) Do the sum total of all the decisions made by all the players essentially create the actuality of the game as it goes along?

3) Is the average MMO totally created, in its absolute entirety, by just one being? Or is one usually created by a team? One concentrates on scenery. Another on armaments. Another on body types. Another on back-end stuff that no one's supposed to notice. Etc.

4) And can't all those creators turn around, if they wanted, take off their creator "hats" and become players for a while?

5) And wouldn't the ones who had intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the game be tempted to create sort of a special "super" level that most people would not be able to understand or play, but if you were a game creator you could?

6) And isn't it a fact that some of the game creators, and some of the game players, sometimes get confused about which part of the game they were initially responsible for? And end up either fighting about it, or being tricked by "traps" that they themselves had originally installed then forgotten about?

Thanks l_e_cox i really appreciate your input. Here is some info about MMO's based on what Ive seen.

Originally posted by l_e_cox
reply to post by Gravity215

 

You are basically right.

And don't get confused by the people who can think of reasons why your idea is illogical. Life just isn't very logical.

Here are some other possibilities you might consider:

(I am not an MMO player so bear with me.)

1) Does the actuality of the game occur in anything other than the present instant?

1.5) If the computer system crashed, would the game still run?

Most MMO's are cluster sets of replication, although i dont know if they all are, it makes sense to do it that way. If a computer crashes, generally load is just distributed to other machines. They also run with variables in memory and save xml files on a regular basis.. say every 10 minutes or so, although thus too can be programmed to changed based on load and resources available etc.

Downtime is bad for business because players get mad when they cant kill something or talk to their friends etc.

2) Do the sum total of all the decisions made by all the players essentially create the actuality of the game as it goes along?

In MMO's you have a reasonably amount of free will although generally the content developers steer the game play. In some VR worlds though, such as Second Life, content is almost entirely created by the players using the developers framework.

3) Is the average MMO totally created, in its absolute entirety, by just one being? Or is one usually created by a team? One concentrates on scenery. Another on armaments. Another on body types. Another on back-end stuff that no one's supposed to notice. Etc.

Hard to say, a developer could make his world framework do whatever he wants. Ive seen prototypes created by individuals, so yes. But releases are always a team effort. You'd be unlikely to get a software developer that was an excellent artist and musician too. (Although in the olden days of computer games, this was true in a limited way)

4) And can't all those creators turn around, if they wanted, take off their creator "hats" and become players for a while?

Yes I used to play both of the games I was a developer for. One of the games I was just a bug fix guy, the other I was an game-engine developer, and a team leader.

5) And wouldn't the ones who had intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the game be tempted to create sort of a special "super" level that most people would not be able to understand or play, but if you were a game creator you could?

Yes I saw a rogue client floating around of one of the games I worked with that came from a 'volunteer' helper.

6) And isn't it a fact that some of the game creators, and some of the game players, sometimes get confused about which part of the game they were initially responsible for? And end up either fighting about it, or being tricked by "traps" that they themselves had originally installed then forgotten about?

Isn't that the way in everything.

Originally posted by Pendulum

To the OP - your question on "legendary logouts"; quite possibly the most (in)famous "logout" was that of "Rainz", from the game "Ultima Online". He basically killed the avatar of the "unkillable" creator of the game, Lord British, using Lord British's own ruleset.

I loved UO, was a great game in its day. This is a perfect example of in-game mythology.

Behind the “scene” truth exists and is never wrong.
If you're programming a physics engine, you make it happen because of the code, the code is true and never wrong. If you make a logical bug in the code and are having some weird physics happening in your game, the code still “speaks” the truth just not in the way you wanted.


Looking in the depths of your self, as conscious being or conscience it self.
The outer material, the human body and chemical setup mostly “automatically” manage it's self.
Your body is a throne for you, in this “world of setup”. It all shines for you and back to you.

Who are you?
Who are we all? Green, yellow, white, black, American, African, jaguar, tiger, human or money?

try
[
BuildPerfectWorld();
]
catch
[
bool BlameReligion = True;
]
finally
[
CreatePlanet CP = new CreatePlanetFromNothing();
]

reply to post by Gravity215


Let me say that I find god rather an artist than a programmer, sure also a programmer but more like an artist. In fact everything around us is art.

As for computer stuff, I find the universe rather the opposite to a computer the way things work, it is contrary to a computer.

Yes God is a programmer and his name is Sid Meier .. jk,

Thanks fellow programmer, I am a web developer and long time computer enthusiast and I have also contemplated if that God or what we think to be God is a programmer.

Joshu asked Nansen: `What is the path?'

Nansen said: `Everyday life is the path.'

Joshu asked: `Can it be studied?'

Nansen said: `If you try to study, you will be far away from it.'

Joshu asked: `If I do not study, how can I know it is the path?'

Nansen said: `The path does not belong to the perception world, neither does it belong to the nonperception world. Cognition is a delusion and noncognition is senseless. If you want to reach the true path beyond doubt, place yourself in the same freedom as sky. You name it neither good nor not-good.'

At these words Joshu was enlightened.--Zen Philosophy

After thinking further I wanted to add.

A few posters alluded to this possible simulation needing patches or upgrades. What if our having this very forum discussing is sort of a patch. Also, what if Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, were not programmers injecting themselves into the simulation, but fellow players that figured out the simulation and tried to instruct us on how to get through the simulation and out to the "real world".

If we are in a simulation, it does not seem to be to friendly or of our will, considering the amount of pain and suffering that goes on in the world. Since the concept of karma alludes that even after your simulation time ends "death", you still end up right back in the simulation(rebirth), with no memory of your previously being within the simulation. This means you cannot even use the knowledge you gained previously, to navigate presently through the simulation. So giving us experience and knowledge does not seem to be the purpose.

Also, if this is a simulation, then there would have to be programming holes to exploit, holes that could be used as cheat codes if memorized in a lifetime and shared with others within the simulation. It is interesting to me that there is a belief in tantra yoga of abilities called Siddhis that allow anyone who attains them, to have abilities that can manipulate actual reality to ones will.

Trippy stuff ..

reply to post by Gravity215


No, we are not living inside a video game.

I think you've been watching to much of the matrix.

(I like that film to, but it has a biblical hidden message to it if you look closely).

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Gravity215

 

No, we are not living inside a video game.

I think you've been watching to much of the matrix.

(I like that film to, but it has a biblical hidden message to it if you look closely).

Video game wasn't really what i was aiming for, probably more like a simulation, in Christian terms, of which i am, possibly an explanation to answer many questions atheists ask, such as 'why does bad let bad things happen to good people'. If this were to be a simulation, it doesn't really matter does it.

The Matrix after all is simply a modern version of a very old story, and quite a good demonstration of it. Terms such as Xion and a messiah are not exactly what id call hidden.

Originally posted by lonewolf10
so if this is all just a hologram, then are we really biological beings?

No.
Biological beings are just self replicating machines.
They are not alive.
Nothing is alive.
There is only the one consciousness.
The sense of being alive is only the fear of dissolution.

Fear is the false programming of self reference to the body.

True programming is God Knowledge or Radical Understanding
that one is constantly engaged in self referencing.

From the Teaching of Da.
www.beezone.com...

Very intriguing thread!
Consider that searching for the definition of the word "nephilim" sends one to the description of the Golden Orb weaver, Nephilia. Dream weaver?

And in artwork of Renaissance period, angels are presenting ORBS to the ruling elite as a symbol of delegated powers. I mentioned this on a thread I started a long time ago and dug up some old artwork to exemplify.

basically strings of energy vibrate at certain frequencies that are read as a language, and everything that exists it based on this code.

ever wonder why things start behaving kinda weird with the bose-einstein condensate? atoms get confused and think every connecting atom is itself, why? because once you get cold enough, the vibrations slow and are read as all the same thing.

maybe.

I believe what you call "GOD" is a form of computer logic.

And humans are the debugger programs run on this Terra....

I posted a similar thread awhile back that received some feedback, and I feel my query was somewhat similar to yours in comparison...

Here's the link OP, as well as anyone else that may be so inclined, at your leisure of course.

Functionality of the Human Brain Compared to Functionality of Basic Computer Operation

Originally posted by ldyserenity
... a certain section of The Book of Enoch, ... that proves maybe God did the original programming and Metatron has the reins now while God takes a vacation? ... some people would say that this book is just a fantastical story

Oh dear me, missing bible books... I've never read the whole thing nor the book of Enoch but this Metatron person/god seems compelling enough to make me want to read this... And while it sounds like Evan/Bruce Almighty biblicized, and I hope people use some sound judgement and logic here, I'll go ahead and say this:

The bible and the books in it are full of parables, lessons to teach. They teach lessons from entertaining stories rather than boring history.

My OP anyway....

reply to post by Gravity215


I hadn't considered this (directly) but you make a great point! Hidden variables, wave/particle duality, god did it, the devil did it, spooky action at a distance............ The programmer/s didn't properly account for every possible scenario. Isn't that entirely possible?

I have thought along those lines before. I was thinking about how mario cant walk through certain objects but can others even though its all the same thing, but he cant walk through a green pipe but can go into one through the top because the progam decides. I was thinking how could it be the same for our universe.

Originally posted by Gravity215
I've spent some of my professional career as a software developer. I also spent much of my spare time working on two different MMO's. For those that do not know why they is important, 99% of computer programmers create business related applications. Game development is an entirely different creature. The only similarities between game programming and application development is they both use a set of instructions to perform tasks.

Anyway... an MMO is a massively multi player online game, such as World of Warcraft, Everquest, EVE Online, etc. In these games players enter inter a world created by software developers and content developers. Most of these games are made by teams of specialists which include sound effects people, 2d artists, 3d artists, story line writers, physics programmers, musicians, special effects, and so on.

The team of people working on such projects create a world. They are essentially like gods to this world they have created.

Players enter this world, and within this world there is absolutely no way for them to know who the 'gods' of the world are. The world or universe they have created is completely self contained. It doesn't really matter what the players do because after they leave the game they go out into the real world.

I'm sure you guys see where this is leading right?

The content developers make up all the stuff and the programmers make interfaces for them to place the content such as story lines, or objects, or cities, or fossils, or ruins, or stars, or worm holes, weird physics etc. into the game.

Players usually interact with the gods of the game via 'guides' or 'admins' these guys manifest into the game and tell people when they're conduct is bad, eg something that will cause litigation to the people hosting the games.

Developers can also put fail safes and optimization code into software.

Now that you have a slight idea of what an MMO is, my questions,

1> Could a programmer log into the game, and play as a regular character showing players everything that they should do and could do if they met the right criteria as an example and logout of the game in such a way that it will be legendary and forever remembered as well as able to provide players with accurate prophecy of the future time line within the game.

2> Could another programmer place content within the game world/universe to case doubt on the first programmer?

3> Can players enter the game with a great back story with all these events never actually happened but are really just back story?

4> Is the measurement problem in quantum physics really just a code optimization to save 'processing power' by not actually processing data that is not being observed by a player?

5> Could this apply to reality as we know it?

I like this theory. I know its similar to a holographic universe theory, but not quiet the same.

Thoughts?

Love it!