Capitalism Is Bad. Time For Change?

reply to post by Sunlionspirit

I dont believe in solidarity I believe in individualism.I am not imagining trillions of dollars being spent on food stamps and welfare by looters stealing from earners and yes i know capitalism is being perverted but still believe in FREE MARKET!!You need to study economics and see and understand that this is a ponzi scheme doomed to fail!!!!!!The rich and the capital gains what about the 35 percent tax that the corporation pays that they own before they get their gain they are being double TAXED before and after 35 percent before and up to 28 percent after not to mention they lose money as well look at how many places have went out of business and lost everything Big risk Big reward not always Big risk big loss is part of the equation.Its the Poor who dont pay there share if you make under 8000 you pay nothing thats not fair Everybody wants to take money from someone else lets just stop all the wars and cut entitlement programs that will get business up and rolling again and if you want to donate to charity you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reply to post by MaxBlack


I liked your post, it had a lot of good points and was thoughtfully written.
I think though, that what makes people question whether Capitalism is to blame, are going upon the notion that much of the world has always been suspicious of- that capitalism stimulates and encourages greed and our lowest base instincts. So saying "capitalism isn't the problem, greed is" doesn't offer an argument to that concern.

I agree with you though, I do not see capitalism as the source of our demise here- at least not alone. I would wonder if it hasn't gone too far, in that once the corporation get to a certain point, where they are huge international monsters, the trickle off is going into other countries (with the financial benefit to them of outsourcing). We get far from Ayn Rands vision of the creative entrepreneur constructing in it's country and providing work for it's members!
As if she wasn't able to imagine THIS big.

But I think the extreme values on individuality and independance did more damage than capitalism itself.

You can have a system that works upon individual merit and still have it less abused if there is a general culture of values upon solidarity and duty which spurs the people to work and be involved, and be highly aware of their influence in the big picture.

Another thing is the emphasis upon extremes. I once posted on a board about the concept of being mediocre, and the responses from Americans was violent! (of course I have some of this in me too, as an American, or it wouldn't have been a subject I'd ponder at all) NO one wants to be mediocre! No one wants to be just "okay", or middle class, or not exceptional. That is not acceptable in our values.

I get that that value was supposed to stimulate people to strive to be active and progress and be ambitious...... but when ambitious becomes a focus on perfection, it has the effect of causing part of the population to freeze up or become discouraged when the goal is too high as to seem impossible. Set the bar so high that only great affluence is acceptable, then those who are starting out at the bottom end up figuring it is better to stay where they are than risk trying to the near impossible, and perhaps ending up in the worst spot imaginable- in the middle.
Because in the middle, you are a failure, you have a job, so can't get aid, but it doesn't cover all your living expenses, like food, health care, housing. You drop in that spot, and can't get ahead to becoming that CEO, you are worse off than if you stayed jobless and at the bottom. And dear God you'd be mediocre, the worst thing in the entire world!

Might as well enjoy life sensually at the bottom, where you are still rejected by your community (but who cares, I am an individual who is not effected by the herd) and yet I can still get my iphone and big screen tv and eat what I want! (and I can even have all kinds of delusions about being an exceptional incredible individual that just isn't recognized outside by the dumb herd who doesn't matter; only what I think of myself matters)

This is a big influence, I think, in the current problems that people will tend to blame capitalism for. The loss of value in our culture upon being just okay, mediocre, or middle class.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Unionism is not Communism, pay special attention to Frank llyod Wright's Quote.

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms is treason. If a man tells you he trusts America, yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."
Abraham Lincoln

"If capitalism is fair then unionism must be. If men have a right to capitalize their ideas and the resources of their country, then that implies the right of men to capitalize their labor."
Frank Lloyd Wright

"The labor movement means just this: It is the last noble protest of the American people against the power of incorporated wealth."
Wendell Phillips

"The American labor movement has consistently demonstrated its devotion to the public interest. It is, and has been, good for all America. Those who would destroy or further limit the rights of organized labor--those who cripple collective bargaining or prevent organization of the unorganized--do a disservice to the cause of democracy."
John F. Kennedy

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
Abraham Lincoln

reply to post by brice


What a crock!

Labor unions today are nothing more than ongoing criminal enterprises. Still, I wouldn't have much against them if it wasn't for the whole edifice of Labor laws given to them by the Democrats as payment for political support. Labor ought to have the right to unionize as long as management has the right to fire their worthless butts when they strike if they are easily replaceable. Labor unions killed the US steel industry and countless others. They nearly killed the US auto industry. To laud them as some kind of heroic organizations shows a distinct lack of knowledge.

Originally posted by objectivist
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

You sound like diehard communist or socialist good luck with that Most rich people pay more in taxes than you make in a year for all of these welfare programs and social security and food stamps RICH PEOPLE PAY WAY MORE THAN YOU OR I DO I PAY ALMOST 50 percent Here is a list of some taxes imposed (government revenue sources)

Accounts Receivable Tax


Accumulated Earnings Tax The Professor says, "Accumulated earnings tax"
Ad Valorem Tax (includes duties on imported items), also see Property tax Ad valorem tax

Alternative Minimum Tax Alternative minimum tax

Aviation Fuel Tax Aviation fuel tax

Capital Gains Tax Capital gains tax

Cement and Gypsum Producers License Tax Cement producers license tax

Cigarette Tax Cigarette Tax

Coal Severance Tax

Coal Gross Proceeds Tax Coal gross proceeds tax

Consumer Counsel Tax Consumer council tax

Consumption Tax Consumption tax

Corporate Income Tax Corporate income tax

Corporation License Tax

Court Fines (revenue from many activities) Court fines

Customs Duty Customs duty

Dog License Tax Dog license tax

Double Tax Double taxation

Electrical Energy Producers Tax

Estate Tax, Inheritance Estate Tax, Inheritance tax

Federal Income Tax Federal income tax

Federal Unemployment Tax Federal unemployment tax

Fishing License Tax Fishing license tax

Food Service License Tax Food service license tax

Fuel Permit License Tax Fuel permit license tax

Gas Guzzler Tax Gas guzzler tax

Gasoline Tax (8 to 35 cents per gallon) Per tank? Gasoline tax

Generation-skipping Transfer Tax

Gift Tax Gift tax

Gross Production Tax

Hospital Facility Utilization Fee Tax Hospital facility utilization fee tax

Hunting License Fee Tax Hunting license tax

Inheritance Tax, see Estate Tax

Inventory Tax Inventory tax

IRS Interest Charges IRS interest charges

IRS Penalties Tax IRS penalties

Kiddie Tax Kiddie tax

Land Value Tax Land value tax

Liquor License Tax Liquor license tax

Liquor Tax Liquor tax

Local Tax

Lodging Facility Use Tax Lodging facility use tax

Luxury Tax Luxury tax

Marriage License Tax Marriage license revenue

Medicare Tax Medicare tax

Metal Mines Gross Proceeds Tax

Metal Mines License TaxMetal mines license tax

Miscellaneous Mineral Mines License Tax Miscellaneous mineral mines license revenue

Miscellaneous Mines Net Proceeds Tax Miscellaneous mines net proceeds tax

Nursing Facility Bed Tax Nursing facility bed tax

Oil and Natural Gas Production Tax Oil and Natural Gas production tax

Parking Meter Tax Parking meter tax

Payroll Tax Payroll tax

Professional PrivilegeTax Professional privilege tax

Property Tax Property tax

Proxy Tax Proxy tax

Public Contractor's Gross Receipts Tax Public contractor's gross receipts tax

Public Service Commission Tax

Public Utility Tax Public utility tax

Real Estate Tax Real estate tax

Real Estate Transfer Tax Real estate transfer tax

Rental Vehicle Sales Tax Rental vehicle sales tax

Resort Tax Resort tax

Resource Indemnity and Groundwater Assessment Tax Resource indemnity and groundwater assessment tax

Retail Telecommunications Excise Tax Retail telecommunications excise tax

Sales Tax Sales tax

School Tax School tax

Self-Employment Tax Self employment tax

Septic Permit Tax Septic tank permit tax

Severance Tax Severance tax

Social Security Tax Social security tax

State Income Tax State Income tax

State Unemployment Tax State unemployment tax

Statewide Emergency Telephone 911 System Fee Tax State 911 telephone tax

Surtax Tax - Extra tax. Surtax - Extra tax

Tariffs - A tax on imports. Needed to protect all the industries we used to have.
Tariffs

Telephone Federal Excise Tax Telephone federal excise tax

Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Since May of 1997, "This helps provide affordable phone service and gives schools, libraries, and rural healthcare providers access to the Internet."

Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax

TDD Telecommunications Service Fee Tax TDD telecommunications service fee tax

Tobacco Products Tax (Other than Cigarettes) Tobacco products tax

Toll Road Fee Tax Toll road tax

Toll Bridge Fee Tax Toll bridge fee tax

Toll Tunnel Fee Tax Toll tunnel fee tax

Tonnage Tax

Traffic Fines Traffic fines

Trailer Registration Fee Tax Trailer registration tax

Use Tax Use tax

Utility Tax, see Public Utility Tax

Vehicle Registration and License Tax Vehicle registration and license tax

Vehicle Sales Tax Vehicle sales tax

Watercraft Registration Tax Watercraft registration tax

Well Permit Tax Well permit tax

Wholesale Energy Transaction Tax

Workers Compensation Tax Workers compensation tax
HOW CAN ANYBODY NO PAY TAXES IF YOU MAKE IT YOU SPEND IT

what's that ? a whole catalogue of taxes you do know so good ??? do you want me to start crying or what ???

you make me laugh you know, because of course when you buy a yacht or you buy a Rolls or you buy a private jet well yes of course you have to pay all kind of taxes houahaouhoua !!!! That is logic no ???
Don't tell me that when you can buy a jet you cannot afford to pay some taxes ????
Poor little rich and wealthy people - they are exploited by the child eating communist state


so what, if I want to eat caviar all day long and take a bath in full champaign, well yes I pay more taxes than the poor little Joe Sixpack that only can buy a Kingburger ......

you just are screwed up there because much too selfish greedy - go drink your champaign and smoke your cigar !!

But I want to tell you that I am from a very rich family myself, and I really know what I am speaking about !!!
But here in Europ we are NOT ( yet ) so selfish !!!
Good night, dream well and remember Bush did give you VERY BIG TAX CUT !!! Forgotten ???

Did you read what is been told ? I read somewhere that if the rich and wealthy people and business did pay the SAME amount of taxes as they did in 1961, the US Tresor should have no problem at all with the deficit and the debt : tresor would have 716.000.000.000 $ each year more than they get now !!!! Not even speaking about the costs of recent wars etc ...
yeah, but some Reagen ( Thatcher .. ) and Bush did pass along and Bush gave big presents to the richest of our society, so they pay very very very little taxes .....
Some CEO's pay even less taxes than their secretary, nice world up there for the highest incomes !!

Not convinced ? Of course the rich and wealthy do not want to stop their privileges they got by puppet Bush and will cry COMMUNISM as soon as someone will demand equity and justice again please !!!

Recent wars like the ones OBOMBA has got us in without congressional approval?

reply to post by Sunlionspirit

First off I like your passion but not your premises.I am not and do not come from a rich family i am lower middle class used to be upper middle class .I am am not a Bush or Obama fan! Higher taxes imposed on the rich (and the semi-rich) will not come out of their consumption expenditures, but out of their investment capital (i.e., their savings); that such taxes will mean less investment, i.e., less production, fewer jobs, higher prices for scarcer goods I have a few extremely rich friends who sold their business or closed their business or went out of business in the last few years.For a few of them it just got to be to much risk without enough reward we are talking about 300 plus people out of a job just for one of these companies.I asked him when he would start up again and he said never he is just going to live off his savings.Why because of the costs of doing business today.It costs a ton of money to employ just one person now days health insurance workmans comp matching every employees social security it all ads up.I looked up tax rates before 1961 and they were crazy if you made over 200,000 dollars your tax rate was 90 percent that is insane I could not believe it.Last year the tax rate for over 200,000 was 35 percent the highest of all middle class 28 percent THE RICH ARE PAYING MORE THAN THERE FULL SHARE.The real problem is we are a welfare state and a military complex state it will lead to a collapse for sure without a doubt just a matter of when.Taking that much money is obscene in my opinion and it is the redistribution of wealth! !Whoever claims the “right” to “redistribute” the wealth produced by others is claiming the “right” to treat human beings as chattel (Slaves).This is not fair! I think we need less welfare and wars I am against both. Dems and Reps have had their way for to long What right do I or you have to take 90 percent of a productive mans income?So in summary the Rich are getting out of the game while they still can that will not create any new jobs or taxes.I think todays republicans are like the old democrats and todays democrats are socialists and the Tea party is like the old republicans.If i had to choose a party it would be Libertarian because they are liberal on social issues(freedom for all) and against big government.I dont see how you can say the Rich dont pay their fair share they pay the highest tax rate.If it is the capital gains remember they paid taxes before they got the gain through their company or corporation and then again when they cashed out in reality that is double taxation.This current system will collapse I just hope people realize when it does and we start over it wasnt because of capitalism!!

reply to post by brice


The artificially high wages forced on the economy by compulsory unionism imposed economic hardships on other groups—particularly on non-union workers and on unskilled labor, which was being squeezed gradually out of the market. Today’s widespread unemployment is the result of organized labor’s privileges and of allied measures, such as minimum wage laws. For years, the unions supported these measures and sundry welfare legislation, apparently in the belief that the costs would be paid by taxes imposed on the rich. The growth of inflation has shown that the major victim of government spending and of taxation is the middle class. Organized labor is part of the middle class—and the actual value of labor’s forced “social gains” is now being wiped out

Originally posted by objectivist
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

First off I like your passion but not your premises.I am not and do not come from a rich family i am lower middle class used to be upper middle class .I am am not a Bush or Obama fan! Higher taxes imposed on the rich (and the semi-rich) will not come out of their consumption expenditures, but out of their investment capital (i.e., their savings); that such taxes will mean less investment, i.e., less production, fewer jobs, higher prices for scarcer goods I have a few extremely rich friends who sold their business or closed their business or went out of business in the last few years.For a few of them it just got to be to much risk without enough reward we are talking about 300 plus people out of a job just for one of these companies.I asked him when he would start up again and he said never he is just going to live off his savings.Why because of the costs of doing business today.It costs a ton of money to employ just one person now days health insurance workmans comp matching every employees social security it all ads up.I looked up tax rates before 1961 and they were crazy if you made over 200,000 dollars your tax rate was 90 percent that is insane I could not believe it.Last year the tax rate for over 200,000 was 35 percent the highest of all middle class 28 percent THE RICH ARE PAYING MORE THAN THERE FULL SHARE.The real problem is we are a welfare state and a military complex state it will lead to a collapse for sure without a doubt just a matter of when.Taking that much money is obscene in my opinion and it is the redistribution of wealth! !Whoever claims the “right” to “redistribute” the wealth produced by others is claiming the “right” to treat human beings as chattel (Slaves).This is not fair! I think we need less welfare and wars I am against both. Dems and Reps have had their way for to long What right do I or you have to take 90 percent of a productive mans income?So in summary the Rich are getting out of the game while they still can that will not create any new jobs or taxes.I think todays republicans are like the old democrats and todays democrats are socialists and the Tea party is like the old republicans.If i had to choose a party it would be Libertarian because they are liberal on social issues(freedom for all) and against big government.I dont see how you can say the Rich dont pay their fair share they pay the highest tax rate.If it is the capital gains remember they paid taxes before they got the gain through their company or corporation and then again when they cashed out in reality that is double taxation.This current system will collapse I just hope people realize when it does and we start over it wasnt because of capitalism!!

the rich ones ALWAYS win in this capitalist game / get over it / so their humanism is just nothing worth, they stop their bizness because yet it's allways all very safe for them, lots of money in the pocket yet, never wanting to create a few jobs, just wanting to feel that cash near their balls, lots of money to survive in wealth with a MAX MAX greedy intrest income !!! come on, they are just big big profiteurs !!!!
they do not care about a more human world, they just eat their own # !!!
I understand you, ok, but it's not FAIR at all those BUSH TAX CUTS for the rich who want this to become perpetual greedy profit !!! this has to stop man, you really do not answer me/us !!!!
do not blame the poor please, what did they do to you ??? did they got millions/billions $$$$$ somewhere ??
so you say they do not pay what they should ???? Look at the profits of those corporations and those rich and wealthy please .... and tell me, do I have to feel pitty for those richest ??