EVOLUTION - Settled Science - or - A Magic Man In The Mud?

A very though provoking view of evolution, science and Creation.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


This video is ridiculous on many points. I will address some now:

1) The speaker uses logical fallacies in their argument.
2) The speaker devolves into name-calling.
3) The speaker outright lies when making statements on behalf of science.
4) The speaker uses outdated hypothesis to make their case.
5) The speaker actually attacks education. Of course, he does this knowing that anyone who has the most basic understanding of science knows what he says is complete nonsense.
6) The video in unabashedly biased.
7) Life can arise from non-life. This has been replicated in a laboratory. It's actually QUITE simple to do.

ETA: A tasty tidbit for your consideration: www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Not that I believe in Creationism but here is a good joke:

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"

But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

...and that pretty much sums up the Creationism point of view.

"Four years ago Dr. Joyce and a graduate student, Tracey A. Lincoln, now a researcher at the University of Massachusetts Medical School, evolved a molecule in a test tube that could replicate and evolve all by itself, swapping little jerry-built genes in a test tube forever, as long as it was supplied with the right carefully engineered ingredients."

The quote above, from your link, gives the answer--Engineering. Consciousness is a key ingredient for particle and wave to be animated with life. Particle and wave are not enough. Denying that consciousness is preexistent is removing the spirit form particle and wave. Matter is a trinity, not a duality. Man is all three. All living matter is all three. Father (Light/Particle/Prima Materia), Son (Word/Wave/Force) and Holy Spirit (Consciousness). God is all three persons and one person. Man is one person containing all three parts of the trinity.

In the beginning (TIME), God created the heavens (SPACE) and the earth (MATTER). Let there be light (ENERGY). In the beginning was the Word (LOGOS/Wave). John 1

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

This video is ridiculous on many points. I will address some now:

1) The speaker uses logical fallacies in their argument.
2) The speaker devolves into name-calling.
3) The speaker outright lies when making statements on behalf of science.
4) The speaker uses outdated hypothesis to make their case.
5) The speaker actually attacks education. Of course, he does this knowing that anyone who has the most basic understanding of science knows what he says is complete nonsense.
6) The video in unabashedly biased.
7) Life can arise from non-life. This has been replicated in a laboratory. It's actually QUITE simple to do.

ETA: A tasty tidbit for your consideration: www.nytimes.com...

edit on 30-7-2011 by SpringHeeledJack because: additional content

Very good. That about sums it up. Man and his pride is no match for the first seven words (in Hebrew) of the first verse of Genesis. It took all the way to Einstein to notice the four primary components of Time, Space, Matter and Energy. God had it in the first verses of the Bible. Seven letters, seven days of the week, seven oceans, seven notes of the musical scale and seven continents; all imprinted with a ratio of 1:1.618. I'd say that about covers his fingerprint. Just so we would see it in the NT as well, John 1 shows us the duality of light, both Father and Son; Particle and Wave; Light and Force; Energy and Information; Substance and Encoding. Consciousness animating matter. AMAZING!

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Not that I believe in Creationism but here is a good joke:

One day a group of scientists got together and decided that man had come a long way and no longer needed God. So they picked one scientist to go and tell Him that they were done with Him.

The scientist walked up to God and said, "God, we've decided that we no longer need you. We're to the point that we can clone people and do many miraculous things, so why don't you just go on and get lost."

God listened very patiently and kindly to the man and after the scientist was done talking, God said, "Very well, how about this, let's say we have a man making contest." To which the scientist replied, "OK, great!"

But God added, "Now, we're going to do this just like I did back in the old days with Adam."

The scientist said, "Sure, no problem" and bent down and grabbed himself a handful of dirt.

God just looked at him and said, "No, no, no. You go get your own dirt!"

...and that pretty much sums up the Creationism point of view.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I'm more than familiar with the fairy tale.

Day one: create light

Day four: create light source

Am I mistaken?

That depends on the facts. Is light more than the light you see? If you look at the ocean, do you just see the surface and waves, or do you perceive what is under the surface and waves? Is there more to the ocean of light as well? Is there more to light than the concrete, or is light also the abstract sense of the story of life?

Hebrews 11

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

1 Corinthians 13

12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

The Physics of God - Perspective on Reality from Science and Religion

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I'm more than familiar with the fairy tale.

Day one: create light

Day four: create light source

Am I mistaken?

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I know where this is going and it may be my fault. This will just be one huge debate on the validity of the Christian bible and I'm sure we both know how it will end: A lot of wasted time on both our parts. I'm going to go ahead and just bow out.

Yup. Its been done many times. LINK

Originally posted by SpringHeeledJack
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

I know where this is going and it may be my fault. This will just be one huge debate on the validity of the Christian bible and I'm sure we both know how it will end: A lot of wasted time on both our parts. I'm going to go ahead and just bow out.

reply to post by SpringHeeledJack
It never ceases to amaze me how people can feel that their position is correct when they have to lie, and distort information so much. Surely that's a sure sign that you're backing the wrong horse?


Not only that, but the Bible has some things to say about people who lie and deceive, alas the irony is lost on creationists...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


There are 5 oceans, not 7

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

There are 5 oceans, not 7

Modern LINK

After the European discovery of America, some people used the term "Seven Seas" to refer to seven of the largest bodies of water in the world: The Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Arctic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico.

Some modern geographical classification schemes count seven oceans in the world: The North Pacific Ocean, the South Pacific Ocean, the North Atlantic Ocean, the South Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Southern Ocean, and the Arctic Ocean.[13]

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

There are 5 oceans, not 7

Modern LINK

After the European discovery of America, some people used the term "Seven Seas" to refer to seven of the largest bodies of water in the world: The Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Arctic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico.

Some modern geographical classification schemes count seven oceans in the world: The North Pacific Ocean, the South Pacific Ocean, the North Atlantic Ocean, the South Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Southern Ocean, and the Arctic Ocean.[13]

edit on 1-8-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

I'm sure it was God's very intention that one day we would divide the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in half so that there could be seven instead of five. It's not as if they're all connected anyway...

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I can see how this thread is going to evolve:

Christian: God exists. (Bible verse, bible verse bible verse),
[color=aqua]Non-religious: God doesn't exist (peer reviewed scientific papers, logic, common sense),
Christian: No, no, no the Bible says God exists (bible verse, bible verse bible verse),
[color=aqua]Non-religious: God doesn't exist (peer reviewed scientific papers, logic, common sense),
Christian: No, no, NO! God does exist (bible verse, bible verse bible verse),

Continued for 100 pages....

Christian: Only a Devil says God doesn't exist (bible verse, bible verse bible verse),
[color=aqua]Non-religious: ****Said while tearing hair out of scalp**** Whatever, logic and common sense takes a back seat to airy-fairy magic. We are leaving this thread now as there seems to be no reasoning with you,
Christian: OMG!! WE WIN!!! See, God spoke to the unbelievers and they have seen the light! Hallelujah!...............................................................................(bible verse),
[color=aqua]Non-religious: /facepalm.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

There are 5 oceans, not 7

Modern LINK

After the European discovery of America, some people used the term "Seven Seas" to refer to seven of the largest bodies of water in the world: The Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Arctic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico.

Some modern geographical classification schemes count seven oceans in the world: The North Pacific Ocean, the South Pacific Ocean, the North Atlantic Ocean, the South Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Southern Ocean, and the Arctic Ocean.[13]

edit on 1-8-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

If you count the Southern Pacific and Southern Atlantic as separate oceans then the Southern Ocean isn't counted because those other two absorb it.

reply to post by Kryties


If the cosmos were to vanish, would it be "true" that you lived?
I quoted true because I am not talking about the perception of truth which is relative.
Obviously it is true.
Is truth a physical thing that passes away via physical decay?
Obviously not.

Truth is life or else it would decay.
Life is living or else it would not be life.

Truth is evident besides the scriptures, but so many who are lacking understanding (faith) hold to beliefs (that which is commonly, but incorrectly, understood to be "faith") and they fall over themselves trying to convince others whose eyes are also apart from truth that truth is "real." To say differently; truth is real apart from beliefs, and apart from perceptions.

Truth/Life is my God.

Dear religious friends, truth is real and does not need a savior.
Dear anti-religious friends, be wise in truth instead of ignoring it while staring right at it.
I would prefer all to give themselves to truth/life, but most prefer to neglect and abuse it.
Long for eternal truth and your hope is communion with it/them/him/etc.

I suppose that am only pointing out that Kryties' premise is flawed in, at least, one case. I have no intention to play "quotations tag."
Oh, and I have no particular view on evolution at this time except all current theories are only theories based upon incomplete and contradictory evidence on both sides.

What I do know for sure is that Men are animals. I also know that Men deal with spiritual things (like truth, charity, order, etc), while the animals are bound by their more confined instincts.

Peer reviewed, scripture based... Truth is not formed by perceptions or beliefs, although perceptions are an avenue for which truth travels and beliefs are certainly, often, noble.
I desire understanding, not false hope.
I desire wisdom, not limited perceptions.
I give myself to truth.
I give myself to my fellow animals.

I desire for us all to move forward instead of arguing from belief based and perception based doctrines.
So, basically; Get over it and start conducting yourselves with self-control and compassion.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Star and flag for you my friend. This has been a very interesting topic for me, for awhile now. As you can see, some of the other posters like the argument from the other side. It is interesting to see Aristotle making the same blunder scientists make today, assuming which they cannot see.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: But there is one kind of flesh of man, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Originally posted by addygrace
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Star and flag for you my friend. This has been a very interesting topic for me, for awhile now. As you can see, some of the other posters like the argument from the other side. It is interesting to see Aristotle making the same blunder scientists make today, assuming which they cannot see.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: But there is one kind of flesh of man, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain. ~J.K. Rowling, "Dobby's Reward," Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, 1999, spoken by the character Arthur Weasley

Seriously?

Man has always recognized the two Atlantic oceans as two distinct bodies of water because of the currents that are divided into two large gyres. This circular current system (Gyre) is driven by the rotation of the earth and wind. Not only the current, but the geography is divided by the oldest maps available. Man is responsible for noticing what God clearly intended. It's only biblically referenced by me because man has always seen them as seven bodies by their unique natures and locations. If you want to get technical, all oceans are connected.

Originally posted by Denali

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

There are 5 oceans, not 7

Modern LINK

After the European discovery of America, some people used the term "Seven Seas" to refer to seven of the largest bodies of water in the world: The Pacific Ocean, the Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Arctic Ocean, the Mediterranean Sea, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico.

Some modern geographical classification schemes count seven oceans in the world: The North Pacific Ocean, the South Pacific Ocean, the North Atlantic Ocean, the South Atlantic Ocean, the Indian Ocean, the Southern Ocean, and the Arctic Ocean.[13]

edit on 1-8-2011 by SuperiorEd because: (no reason given)

I'm sure it was God's very intention that one day we would divide the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in half so that there could be seven instead of five. It's not as if they're all connected anyway...

Do not pity the dead, Harry. Pity the living. And above all, all those who live without love. -Dumbeldore

Originally posted by WhatAliens

Originally posted by addygrace
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

Star and flag for you my friend. This has been a very interesting topic for me, for awhile now. As you can see, some of the other posters like the argument from the other side. It is interesting to see Aristotle making the same blunder scientists make today, assuming which they cannot see.

1 Corinthians 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: But there is one kind of flesh of man, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain. ~J.K. Rowling, "Dobby's Reward," Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, 1999, spoken by the character Arthur Weasley

Seriously?