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The left needs it's own Tea Party

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posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 

The current Tea Party is made up of democrats, republicans, conservatives, libertarians. Who's left to join "your" party? Progressives, liberals.


Oh, beezer. So many assumptions. Let's address them;

First, if you read PAST THE HEADLINE, which you obviously didnt do, you would see this isn't about 'my party'. I have made no statement in support of the Democrats, despite your obvious assumptions.

Furthermore, this notion that 'the tea party' are not just Republicans is hilarious. You keep clinging to that myth, eh?

Let's continue:


Liberal progressives already have most of the media and they follow a specific agenda. Which is more government. Bigger government. An intrusive government.


Again, what a great example of how far to the Right this country has come. The 'media' are all controlled by 'liberals', even though they spew pro-war, pro-rich propaganda that in no ways serves anything resembling traditional leftists ideals.

If anything, this merely highlights the point made in my OP (you know, the one you didn't bother reading before commenting). The 'tea party' is an excuse for both the Republicans and Democrats to continue to shift the debate further and further to the Right.




posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:16 AM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


incrediblelous, you are truly a conflict of "sides". You espouse both left and right ideals (at least you appear to) in almost every thread you post on. It's a crap shoot as to which side you're going to support. Which, to me, means you are actually a human being. Or a very cleverly programmed bot
.

I see what you are saying. You want a balance to the Tea Party. The problem is that the TP as it is resembles nothing like it was in the beginning. I know this is a conspiracy site, but it's complete BS that the TP was started by the Koch brothers and other shadowy "PTB" interests.

It really did start out as a grass roots movement that included moderates, slightly left-of-center, and conservatives of every party that were tired of D.C. in general. TP groups would hold rallies, a right-leaning politician would show up, thinking he would welcomed with open arms, and get booed off the stage. It was pretty glorious back then.

Now the TP doesn't really seem to know what it wants. It's completely full now of right-of-center all the way to far right politicians. There's no room (seemingly) for social issues. I'm pretty right-leaning myself for the most part, but I have room for issues that affect the poor, the infirm, children, etc. I'd probably be more apt myself to join a more socially teensy bit left-of-center group than the TP in its current manifestation. But it, too, would be hijacked by people like Pelosi and Reid, who are way too far left in their agenda to ever allow this country to prosper.

And then there is Obama, who is so far to the left he has traveled the entirety of the space-time continuum, followed the curve of space, and wound up on the other side of the circle to fascism, which is generally viewed as a far-right leaning -ism. Not that other certain presidents have been any different (coughBUSHcough), but "we the people" need to all see that he has not one concern about this country. His only concern is being in the history books. And he won't listen to word one from any grass roots movement because his head is too full of his own ideas of what a president should be, not what a president should do.

/TOA



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by The Old American
reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


incrediblelous, you are truly a conflict of "sides". You espouse both left and right ideals (at least you appear to) in almost every thread you post on. It's a crap shoot as to which side you're going to support. Which, to me, means you are actually a human being. Or a very cleverly programmed bot
.


I am actually being critical of 'both' Parties. If anything relating to 'party', this is a condemnation of the Democrats. Nonetheless, I bristle at the notion of being a filthy human.;-)


I see what you are saying. You want a balance to the Tea Party. The problem is that the TP as it is resembles nothing like it was in the beginning. I know this is a conspiracy site, but it's complete BS that the TP was started by the Koch brothers and other shadowy "PTB" interests.


Well, i was waiting for someone to bring up this point. Yes, I get that the 'tea party' has roots in bi-partisan distaste for the bailouts at the very end of the Bush regime. Nonetheless, to try and pretend that the current 'tea party caucus' is representative of those sentiments and purity is, imo, naive.

My point is not to condemn 'the tea party', or even to analyze the varying factions vying for control of that name.

No, this is an analysis of the way political theater is used to pull the national dialogue further to the right. Although perhaps the term 'right' is misleading and inaccurate, since what I am actually referring to is corporate oligarchy, which is hardly a solely 'right' leaning ideology. Regardless, the Democrats get to use the far right as an excuse for never actually representing anything 'left' leaning. They talk about the need to 'compromise' an find the 'center', which always seems to drift further and further away from anything resembling traditional leftist ideals.

And, despite the obvious confusion of several GOP shill sin this thread, tat isn't even a promotion of leftist ideology, and certainly isnt a promotion of the DNC. It's just an observation that, despite all this clamoring about how the Democrats are 'far left', they actually arent. And the actual far-right gives them a great excuse to avoid that.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 11:59 AM
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Personally, I've been toying with the idea of Labor taking over the 'right' - family values, community-oriented small 'c' conservatives.

Labor per se doesn't depend on socialism at all - it's just that people who work and earn a living need to expand their rights. Not to the degree of bloated UAW employees in their hey-day or government workers, but the real problem right now is economic inequality and wage disparity and that is behind a lot of other social problems.

Americans having to compete with third world wage slaves is destroying the community and families way faster than out of wedlock children or gay marriage or drugs or any other media and lobby-group fabricated bugaboos ever could.

When people have to move to find a job, families are broken up. When both parents have to work in order to provide even halfway decent opportunities for their kids then that creates burdens on the family unit and can trigger breakdowns and divorce.

Old - fashioned values of thrift, family and community are what's needed, not what suits the big corporations and their shareholders or hedgefunds in the Hamptons or in China.

A family should be able to survive beyond basic subsistence on a single full-time wage. Employees should not be having to compete with some overpopulated Third World crap hole for the chance to earn a living while there are billionaires just looking to hoard even more.

- Dramatically increase Top Marginal Tax rates and taxes on capital and wealth so that it's not worth it for people to game the system to get lottery-jackpot sized payouts or sit on hoards of cash like they are now.
- Tariffs on imports of finished goods from countries that do not have the same labor or environmental standards
- Ignore obvious 'divide and conquer' side issues that take the focus away from labor and economic opportunity.
- Demand meritocracy from corporate america, governments and schools again.
- Exhume Eisenhower.
- Restore downtown mainstreets.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by Patriot4Revolt
 


sounds like a good idea. Why are you yelling?



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 


Not yelling - trying to awaken the sheep of our country. We need leadership. We need to follow through on our duties as citizens and act for our country, when our government is not.

it is ridiculous that people in our country are asleep at the wheel. We must get passionate about our once great country and rebuild ourselves, no one else will. This is not just our right, but our duty.

let's act as one people, for a change, and act in the people's overall best interest. A government that wants to cut our previous generation's benefits, and not take pay cuts, is not how americans show appreciation for the freedoms we have, due to our previous generations. These people need to go. Now. Not next year, now!!!

we need leadership, in the least, organization. Let's act as one unit and take the reigns of our own country. Not sit back and take whatever the selfish leadership gives us.

we are not a cowardice people and we never were. Stand up people!!
edit on Sun Jul 31 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: remove ALL CAPS "yelling"



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Patriot4Revolt
 


I see. And why have you chosen this particular thread to deliver this ALL CAPS diatribe of yours?



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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As would be expected the new comers to the political arena are under fire for what they believe in, however, the question should be, can the Democrats do any better or is their base so badly fractured as to not have the ability to pull together to do anything that would affect the country?
Ironically, so many people thought this group, these Tea Bag party people as being a joke and could have no sway, no chance of getting into government what so ever. All of these same people would cry if the federal government did something they did not like, and the very funny thing of it all is that the lack of voter turn out, made something like this very much possible. Now there are 85 freshmen congressmen who represent the new Tea Party, and the screams of foul and unfairness has started. Yet is one must ask is that the smell and sight of hypocrisy coming from those in the Democratic party? The very same people who had the majority in DC and did nothing, save shove an unpopular law down the throats of the people, giving no one a choice to decide if it was correct or not. The very same people who complained the current armed conflicts are not in the interest of the US and did NOTHING to stop it, so much as closing the purse strings and saying No? The same people who would criticize the other side, yet does the exact same thing and who up until recently had the votes to pass anything they wanted and only really passed a bill that pretty much has done nothing for the country, cause it will be 2 more years till it goes into effect?
The lesson here is that perhaps these new 85 freshmen have the right idea, and the correct motivation, work for the people, don’t compound the problems with more bad laws that everyone is going to regret for years to come. Just maybe trying to do something, like pick up a bucket and start bailing out the water in a sinking ship is the right course of action.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Sadly for the dems, their hard core wing, if fully exposed, will send the masses fleeing in all directions away from this beast as the mask falls off. The vast majoirty of foks in this country will be repulsed at the face of the hard left if not masked.....and it looks like its a little late for that. Most hard left teachers in this country have been saying for years and pinning their hopes on this idea that americans are "antihistorical" i.e. they will not trun right but will go left if they find themselves in a hard situation. But this is not the case and the left will have to scrap its precious theory of relativity.....and go back to the drawing board.

Comparing the Tea Party as hard right with the hard left wont cut it as just a comparison of two hard centers of two main parties. Why? Becosue the Tea Party looks like ultra patriots and the hard left looks like a bunch of slobering red communists. So there is no comparison. In fact if the public were given the chance to see both in true profile it would have the effect of further polarization which will have bad effect for the dems. And they know this thats why they keep their pit bull dressed like a clown. The Tea Party has the advantage of historical justification in this country. The hard left looks like its driven by outsdie forces, an import, so is more suspect right out the gate. Not taking sides here just pointing out some real political facts. Notice even now as the dems react to the Tea Party by vearing hard left and/or holding its line.....Obama falls in the polls.

The Tea Party was a stroke my friends. Let the student of politics pay close attention.
edit on 31-7-2011 by Logarock because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock
the Tea Party looks like ultra patriots and the hard left looks like a bunch of slobering red communists.


Examples?

Notice even now as the dems react to the Tea Party by vearing hard left, holding its line.....Obama falls in the polls.


Ah, yes, that claim again. Can you give me some examples of Obama and the DNC's 'hard left' policies? Is it Obama's policy of sending more troops to Afghanistan that you are referring to?Or his continuation of tax cuts for the richest among us?h, I know! It's his support for Monsanto, right?

LOL

No, see, my point is actually the exact opposite. The so-called 'left' (Dems) use the tea party as an excuse to constantly drift to the right. Your claims that they are 'far left' is completely baseless, and defies logic.

edit on 31-7-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
Now there are 85 freshmen congressmen who represent the new Tea Party, and the screams of foul and unfairness has started. Yet is one must ask is that the smell and sight of hypocrisy coming from those in the Democratic party?


You didnt read past the headline before posting.



The lesson here is that perhaps these new 85 freshmen have the right idea, and the correct motivation, work for the people, don’t compound the problems with more bad laws that everyone is going to regret for years to come. Just maybe trying to do something, like pick up a bucket and start bailing out the water in a sinking ship is the right course of action.


Threatening to not pass the debt ceiling is not akin to bailing out water. It's akin to sinking the ship. Cutting defense spending would be bailing out water. When will this 'tea party' get around to that? They've been in office long enough to at least TRY.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

LOL

No, see, my point is actually the exact opposite. The so-called 'left' (Dems) use the tea party as an excuse to constantly drift to the right. Your claims that they are 'far left' is completely baseless, and defies logic.

edit on 31-7-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)



Yes you said it. Such is the power of the Tea Party that they are pulling some dems into thier vortex. Its the Dems that forgot that we cant make a meal of socialism that are holding their line in a way that looks like contempt. They forget that they are talking to a whole generation that has learned the lessions of the dangers of credit and spending maddness.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Threatening to not pass the debt ceiling is not akin to bailing out water. It's akin to sinking the ship. Cutting defense spending would be bailing out water. When will this 'tea party' get around to that? They've been in office long enough to at least TRY.


This is another old tired and worn out lefty area of maxim. Anyone can see that whatever can be said about military spending the areas of social entitlement is a very real large 800lb something on the backs of americans. The lefty shell game of lifting the military shell to show the real pea has gone down joke street.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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They already have the dem version of the party, it's called the communist party.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by incrediblelousminds
 

There is more to the story than not raising the debt ceiling than what people tend to look at. What gets more headlines, Grandma is not going to get her check, or the freshmen in congress want a guarantee that the federal government has to now budget and live within its means while lowering the debt? What sounds more like something that would catch the attention of the public? The first one, as that is what has come out and then the political arguments and bickering back and forth. The reason why the freshmen are not wanting to pass and threaten not to pass the debt ceiling is cause they see what every one else does, that it is a temporary fix to the financial mess that the federal government has gotten itself in. They are wanting a fix that is going to prevent Congress and the federal government from getting into this mess again for a very long time. They want the federal government to do what the majority of the US public is having to do right now, budget and live within their means. So that means that congress has to be willing to give on this issue or they will vote it down and it is about time. The republicans and the democrats have played politics long enough with the people of this country, promises were made and not kept, now there is a bunch of people who got into congress, beating out long term incumbents, on the promise of doing something and they are upholding on that promise. Neither side has done that in a long time and it is a shock, to see people willing to put it all on the line and make the rest tow the line as it were. Is that so bad, to say you can have it, but you need to do this as well, and to ensure that you follow through, pass the law that will make you do it.
They are not saying no, that they will not raise the debt ceiling, they are saying that without the changes that has to be made in the way business is done in DC, that if the off the wall spending is not controlled and reined in, then raising the debt ceiling is a pretty much useless act. So they are putting their foot down and it is about time. No more run away spending like we have all of the money in the world.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Logarock
 


LOL. The democrat's policies in no way resemble anything even beginning to approach 'Socialism".

I'd suggest a political science course.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Logarock

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Threatening to not pass the debt ceiling is not akin to bailing out water. It's akin to sinking the ship. Cutting defense spending would be bailing out water. When will this 'tea party' get around to that? They've been in office long enough to at least TRY.


This is another old tired and worn out lefty area of maxim. Anyone can see that whatever can be said about military spending the areas of social entitlement is a very real large 800lb something on the backs of americans. The lefty shell game of lifting the military shell to show the real pea has gone down joke street.


While you are drifting WAY off topic, I feel this needs addressing. Can you point out what 'entitlement programs' trump ACTUAL defense spending?

Sure, cut welfare, fine. It's still a drop in the bucket when it comes to defense spending. And putting SS into 'entitlement programs' is retarded, as people pay INTO it.



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
reply to post by MasterGemini
 


I'm sorry. When you said 'kicked off his campaign in the belly of the beast' i thought you meant something conclusive and substantial.

Have you read beyond the headline of my OP yet? This isn't actually about partisan politics. It's about outlining how the public dialogue is manipulated by false premises, and how one could theoretically shift tat discourse with similar tactics

"discourse of similar tactics"...
By that you mean: "manipulated by false premises,"?????
Great more "one sided manipulation": So it s okay as long as the "left" does it; but evil when the "right" does?

So you decry the so-called "evil manipulation tactics" of the right then say: "hey...why don't we do it too?"
How marvelously "frank" of you to admit such blatant partisan hypocrisy


Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

as is currently used by corporatist hiding behind populist slogans.
edit on 30-7-2011 by incrediblelousminds because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-7-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-7-2011 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 31 2011 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by 46ACE

"discourse of similar tactics"...
By that you mean: "manipulated by false premises,"?????
Great more "one sided manipulation": So it s okay as long as the "left" does it; but evil when the "right" does?

Soyoudecry theso-called evil manipulation tactics of the right then say: "hey...why don't we do it too?"
How marvelously "frank" of you to admit such blatant partisan hypocrisy


GAAHH!! This entire thread, I have been critical of the entire facade of two party politics, and especially critical of the hypocrisy of the DNC.. Is that what you mean by 'blatant partisan hypocrisy'?



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