So You Think "The Rich" Aren't Paying There Fair Share"

Originally posted by Undertough

Is it odd that Neo had no real backup in this thread until he suddenly decided to take a break and suddenly the cavalry seems to be showing up? Just something that seemed to stand out to me.

edit on 31-7-2011 by Undertough because: (no reason given)

No, it's not really odd at all, and a few pages back I was supporting his stance, so yes he did have real backup.

fallowthelight- You are 100% correct about government regulations. It's funny that this was supposed to be a free country, and yet our economy is anything but free. We should never be forced to pay for a specific product or service just because a couple people in government (who can be bought by the big companies) feel it is necessary for our safety. We should also not be limited to what we can buy, just because a couple people in government feel that certain products are "better" or "safer" for us. That needs to be OUR decision as free citizens.

Originally posted by DarkSarcasm

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by mustard seed

 

hardly we are talking federal and state income taxes here and people are paying 50% of their incomes towards those two.

plus every other stupid tax

Tax on lottery winnings is not an income tax, it is a type of gift tax. Income taxation is much lower than gift taxing.

Also, of you know anything about finances you'll know that taking a lump sum is your best bet. Over time, having more money in the bank that earns interest that is compounded continuously will grow exponentially, if you accept regular payouts your money will not make as much because your not in possession of it. If you allow the payout company to hold onto it for you they pretty much keep the interest and with as much as they'll get in interest they can pay you without ever losing a dime, even at current awful interest rates.

I also believe that the extremely wealthy should pay more to make up for the fact that they make money with money rather than making money through hard work. Laborers should be paid more appropriately but what we see these days is the executive management taking home more money than all of their lower level employees combined do.

I wonder if corporations understand well enough that if they do not pay their employees well enough then eventually there will not be any consumers with enough money to purchase the products created. Eventually their greed will run them into the ground. Quite realistically, if executives and government want to improve the economy, they would decrease executive pay, appropriately distribute )bonuses, and increase their laborers income all across the board.

If they understood this concept they would realize that when low level employees are paid appropriately by all businesses and corporation there would be more money moving, meaning higher sales of all goods, meaning higher revenue, meaning higher profits, meaning more jobs, meaning more money moving around, meaning a cycle that begins to legitimately heal the economy. These jobs and incomes would also bring in more taxes meaning the debt of the government could begin to heal. Technically, all that is necessary for improvements all around for everyone in a win win outcome is executive sacrifice and less emphasis on paying its company's shareholders.

I couldn't have said it better !!!! you know pretty good how the system rules !!
it's simple but so much people do not understand - why ?
making money out of money compared to making money out of REAL work !!
The ones that can make big money out of money, those who have so much money they don't even have to touch the money itself but live very very easily on the intrests self, well they should pay much more taxes for their lazy life !!!!
Some have 1.000 $$$$$ A DAY out of their capital in the bank, cann't we have let's say 40 % for our and their society benefit ????

reply to post by Undertough


You seemed to have missed my point...... For one, your scare tactic is not working. Ok now that that is out of the way. I was joking about the chemists but you seem to forget the businesses that would not want to lose their name brand status, over newly graduate chemists who instead of working hard to work for Bayer work hard to make their own name.

Also the Medical Marijuana industry would be able to advance in medicinal technology. Technology that may help people farther, than anything our big chemical companies has.

I never said utopia so please stop putting words in my mouth. I would like to start fresh and give people the ability to get out of the position they are in and progress further.

regulated socialistic nation would only halt growth of the people and cause dependency.

Originally posted by fallow the light


regulated socialistic nation would only halt growth of the people and cause dependency.

Can you provide some examples of 'regulated socialistic' nations that have halted growth?

Originally posted by nwdogg1982
No, it's not really odd at all, and a few pages back I was supporting his stance, so yes he did have real backup.

I read your posts.
I stand by my use of the word "real."

fallowthelight- You are 100% correct about government regulations. It's funny that this was supposed to be a free country, and yet our economy is anything but free. We should never be forced to pay for a specific product or service just because a couple people in government (who can be bought by the big companies) feel it is necessary for our safety. We should also not be limited to what we can buy, just because a couple people in government feel that certain products are "better" or "safer" for us. That needs to be OUR decision as free citizens.

You are both free to live in countries without those regulations and feed your kids all the iffy medication you want. I am sure you will find someone you trust over in Somalia. I do not understand why people sit in America and cry about how horrible it is. You are just as free to leave as you are to bitch. I see which you choose though and it makes me sad.

reply to post by fallow the light


I got your point just fine. You are shifting your goal posts. You said people should be free to sell medication with no regulations. You have failed on many levels to make that statement seem like anything but insanity. If you truly believed it, you would be taking your children to a country that already works that way. You would be buying unregulated medication from that black market to support it. You would be boycotting American big Pharma. You are not. You are sitting in America saying medication should not be regulated.

I do not agree. That simple.

Originally posted by mustard seed
Nobody is talking about small businesses but about billionaires like yourself who admit to no job creation with your money only that you leverage monetary positions. And this creates jobs and promotes the general welfare How? Is it wrong for you to pay handsomely for making money using only the change of hands to profit? Is it not a great idea to tax your selfish arse to death unless you put that money to work in the system?
A logging analogy is appropriate. You cant clear cut and not replant.In fact timber companies are taxed if they dont If you are not ¨replanting¨ you deserve taxing. That is how money stays active in an economy not selfish hording.
seed

Sir you are SPOT ON!
Should you choose to run for office,you have my vote.
But they would probably shoot you in Dallas.

Super Rich The Greed Game


The City of London - Money and Power 1 of 2 - BBC Documentary




The Truth Behind The Debt
wideshut.co.uk...

The problem with the economy isn’t as the government would have you believe, the welfare bill or winter fuel money. The problem is the way in which our economy has been constructed, as it is designed to cripple the country with debt. When the government needs more money, one of the options at its disposal is for it to ask the Bank of England (BOE) to print more. This sounds reasonable enough, but what most people don’t know is that the BOE then lends this money to the government at interest. So for every note printed we have to pay that back to the BOE with interest. From the start our money is printed out of debt. William Cobbet an M.P in 1810 said “There is something so consummately ridiculous in the idea of a nation’s getting money by paying interest to itself upon its own stock, that the mind of every rational man naturally rejects it. It is, really, something little short of madness to suppose, that a nation can increase its wealth; increase its means of paying others; that it can do this by paying interest to itself. When time is taken to reflect, no rational man will attempt to maintain a proposition so shockingly absurd”

And we all know who really benefits.

reply to post by Undertough


Since when did arguing for the freedom of American citizens to make their own choices as free individuals become such a stigma? And why must all "free" societies be just like Somalia? I think I understand what you insinuated with the "I stand by the word 'real'" comment, so I'll just let that go.

You are correct, I am free to leave. I am also free to argue against what my government is doing, in fact that is the reason why the United States of America was founded...unless our history is wrong.

When I break down the issue logically, the only solution I see for the long-term survival of a free society in this country is to limit government intervention into economy, rather than forcing people to pay more taxes, which is effectively forcing people to pay for services they may not want or need. Yes, I will argue against that...because that is against the principles of free society.

The issue in my book is not about the wealthy paying taxes, it is about the IRS, the tax code in general; the intrusive government. I want the government out of my life and I damn will don't want to give them more money to stay in and get even more into my life, my business. I wish it was not a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water but there is little redeeming about this US Government. They have made so many laws that a human being can barely breath without breaking one of them. Frankly, I am one who is trapped in the middle, scum on the left, scum on the right and there are few true Americans left.

reply to post by neo96


Guess you dont know anything about money and those with it --- Get educated ---

There are SO MANY WAYS TO PAY NOTHING in taxes --and it get easier the more you make -----Yes- working for money (an employee for example pays - and in many ways - with no way not to ----

Either in investments, profits or otherwise - so many "write-offs" and/or exemptions that "taxes - what taxes?" See how corporations pay nothing as example GE --billions in profits - 0 in taxes -----

Any good accountant can come up with ways for most anyone
NOT to pay much of nothing!!!!!


Get educated before you make statements that are only for "the uneducated, working class"
Vote for obama, vote for palin, vote for trump ---- yep they all take and take and gIVE NOTHING but promises to fools who follow --

Originally posted by nwdogg1982
reply to post by Undertough

 

Since when did arguing for the freedom of American citizens to make their own choices as free individuals become such a stigma? And why must all "free" societies be just like Somalia? I think I understand what you insinuated with the "I stand by the word 'real'" comment, so I'll just let that go.

I hope you understood it. I meant you to. If not, I am glad to clear it up. Your argument is a straw man. You are confusing freedom with anarchy. There are regulations that preclude me from taking the lives of people I so choose. Personally I find that rather restrictive to my freedoms but there is an important caveat. I understand how those regulations benefit the society that I live in by choice. So I can either remove myself from society or agree that there need to be some rules that allow us all to live together a little better. Those are the only two choices actually available and no argument for my neighbors making and selling medication based on a handshake is going to convince me anything else. It is using the worst argument for anything ever to get me to see things another way. America is all about regulating society and if you do not like it, you should leave instead of sit around and complain about it. Read the constitution sometimes. It is a set of regulations.

The OP is silly. Talking about an average guy winning the lottery is totally different then someone born into wealth and power.
Take a basic logic course!
money.msn.com...
articles.cnn.com...:OPINION
www.statesman.com...
wweek.com...

reply to post by Undertough


The constitution is a set of regulations, yes. It is a set of regulations that protect the freedom of individuals and regulate the actions of government. At no point did I ever argue that the USA should not have a government, and that we should live under anarchy. At no point did I argue the ability of anyone to be able to commit violent crimes against others. I am arguing against the economic policies of this country, nothing more...no straw man argument on my side.

I do agree with a few points that you make. Some regulation on the actions of citizens is necessary for the benefit of society. This is why we have local law enforcement agencies, and state governments. This does not need to include restrictions and regulations on general trade. Your argument for regulation of medication is sound, but is not enough to convince me that we need to regulate it, let alone every single aspect of trade in the country.

What would you say to anyone that is against the TSA, or the DHS, or any of the multitude of other government programs we are forced to pay for yet do not need? You say suck it up or leave the country? That's a fine way of dismissing the issue...but would you like to pay for me to leave? I'll gladly accept a few thousand from you to move to Canada, or Russia, but that's not exactly fair to you now is it? You say drop out of society. Ok, sure. Just stop making me pay taxes that way I actually can. As it stands, though, I pay taxes just like you, so my viewpoint is no less valid and I am no less an American than you are.

Here are the facts!
www.youtube.com...
The super rich contribute nothing! They bet on our productivity and creativity. That is how they make "their" money by living a parasitic existence on our productivity and creativity.

reply to post by neo96


Why do so many on the right always use the "mob rule" argument against democracy? SO what you are saying is that the people should not be able to get justice, thats "mob rule". But a small elite class can get what THEY want. I think that's called fascism.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by fallow the light


regulated socialistic nation would only halt growth of the people and cause dependency.

Can you provide some examples of 'regulated socialistic' nations that have halted growth?

Still waiting, fallo.

Come on, you dont mean to tell me you made such a bold pronouncement as the foundation for your claims but you cant point to some facts to substantiate it?

reply to post by neo96


Millionaires are not the issue. The ultra rich billionaires are the ones that dont pay a dime through special loop holes and offshore accounts. Millionaires are paying their share if not more than their share but the problem is theres such a disconnect from the poor in the country to the rich that millionares are seen as 'rich' when in reality they are the upper middle class. See I dont want taxes to go up on millionares because it does nothing but destory the middle class and kill jobs. I want to see the loop holes closed on the super rich billionaire ceos.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Perhaps there is one solution, how ever it will take some back bone and determination from the people. Just stand up for what one believes in and and voice that opinion.

Tax the rich, feed the poor. Till there are no rich no more. . I'd love to change the world. But I don't know what to do. So I'll leave it up to you.
I'd love to change to world

Oh and to those who stared my initial post on page one, wow ....just wow. Unexpected.


If you liked that link, here is another with a different video edit.
I'd love to change the world- Ten Years After...cut this using old film stock

Actually watch the videos, there is one set to poverty that has some powerful visual as well.
Video about poverty