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So You Think "The Rich" Aren't Paying There Fair Share"

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posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by Undertough
 


Hi,

I think that the poor are actually paying taxes in the U.S.

So am I misunderstanding you here? - Also a lot of the "criminel" rich (LMAO), is actually being put to justice and getting looked into there overseas accounts. Or atleast that is how it is going in Denmark.

Therefore many of them simply just move to another country. It is real simple actually. If you can
afford not to pay taxes why do you want to do it?




posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 


oh, goodness gracious. rich faggots earn 60 million but they get only 30 million.
oh, sie injustice. sie horror. this calls for a revolution. lol.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:36 AM
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What they are attempting to do is suck all the wealth out of the Rich so the "rich" can't fund a revolution. As it currently stands the major US based companies have more money on hand than the US government will have if this debt "deal" doesn't pass.

It has become clear to the major companies and the "rich" that they have been sucked into a war with China. China and that whole are is ripping off their designs that work just as well and they are being sold for pennies on the dollar.

This is all just a scheme in class warfare to keep the poor - poor and make the rich poor. That is why the "rich" are not spending any money. It's because they know Obama and friends, yes even the R's, want to take everything that they have worked for.

What we are all witnessing is America being sold out to China. It's going poorly for us(the citizen) and Great for them(the politicians).



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by nuttin4U
 


What an absolutely ridiculous sentiment you have there. So even though we have substantiated the FACT that the rich usually pay about 18 per cent through a loop hole and everyone else pays about 35 per cent, you STILL THINK that it is the poorest people, the people with disabilities and mental illness, the people crippled in poverty that are the ones not paying their way???? HA!

In a system in which certain demographics are quite literally held down by the upper classes it is more than fair that the people who sit at the top of the pyramid contribute more than the people who have nothing to contribute. To say that they should be 'forced to work' clearly indicates your limited understanding of the situation they find themselves in most of the time.

What an absolutely ludicrous sentiment you have, you need to get educated.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 05:49 AM
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Originally posted by Hilltaker
reply to post by Undertough
 


Hi,

I think that the poor are actually paying taxes in the U.S.

So am I misunderstanding you here? - Also a lot of the "criminel" rich (LMAO), is actually being put to justice and getting looked into there overseas accounts. Or atleast that is how it is going in Denmark.

Therefore many of them simply just move to another country. It is real simple actually. If you can
afford not to pay taxes why do you want to do it?



Everyone, absolutely everyone pays about 80% toward some form of govt. support. Those without shelters and loopholes also pay for those that have them through the increases in pricing they impose on their companies products and services.

Take the $1 price of a piece of fruit and dissect everyone and every company that has anything to do with getting it from the tree to your mouth and count each instances taxes built into the pricing. Road taxes, communication taxes, property taxes, fuel taxes, income taxes, wage and salary taxes, etc. Do this for the retailer, then the shipper to get it to the retailer, then the storage warehouse facility, then the shipper to that warehouse, then the broker distribution agency, then the actual farm. 80% of that dollar is taxes and thats a very conservative estimate. More like 95%.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 


Yeah I agree on that statement. It seems like people are having a very hard time understanding that everything you buy is soo mega taxed.

Also, just look at U.S. spending 10 Billion dollars everyday. That itself should be enough for people then to understand, that somehow the government is getting in TOOONS of money. That is problery mostly by taxes.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:01 AM
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I just find it funny that those who scream and shout the most about "so and so is *insert problem here*" are usually the first person to the EXACT same thing that they rail against.

The simple fact is this - if any one of us where in the same situation as the CEO/COO/CFO's of a major corporation, we would be doing the exact same thing that they are doing - whatever necessary to keep the profits coming in. If that means paying the best accountants in the area to find tax loopholes so the company pays less tax, then so be it.

And yes, I can tell you for certain, I would be doing as much as I could to pay as little tax as I could if I were in a multi-million dollar a year job. And I will tell you for certain, that 99.9% of other people would do the EXACT same thing. Anyone that tells you otherwise is a flat out liar.

Hell, I'm sure the owners of this here ATS are trying their best to keep costs down in running and maintaining the site. And if that means finding a way to pay less tax, then why not???

Ain't no conspiracy here people............



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by tkwasny
 


How do you add income taxes to the price of a product? No, seriously, how?
Let me give you a little example.
you sell a product, and make 1000$ revenue on it. Now you pay a 50% tax.
So you just sell it for 500$ more?
ok, now you have 1500$ revenue, and pay 750$ tax.
Damn... all right then. lets sell it for a price so we make 1750$ revenue
Oh.... now we pay 875$ tax, and still don't get our 1000$ we want to make.

Ok, if you do this long enough you will get to a point where the increase is in cents but:
The real problem: you propably won't sell as many, and might price yourself out of the market.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by debunky
 


Hi,

Yes but in that case it is a decission you make. You could also sell for cheaper than everyone else, earning less money but maybe selling larger quantities. Also, you do not pay taxes the way you described even though I understand what you are saying.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by neo96
 



Lottery winners might be Rich but they aren't Wealthy and that is the major difference.

The Wealthy have had generation upon generation of wealth building and wealth preserving knowledge and education handed down to them.

Their primary source of income, their Family trust, was established before they were even born.

The Wealthy use tax shelters and accrue their income primarily from investments, which are taxed differently and at a lower rate percentage wise than income generated from a paycheck or lottery winnings.

They also own Corporations so they don't need to buy things out of pocket as we do. Their Corporations buy these big items do for them. And are depreciated as a business expense, saving them even more in taxes.

Corporations pay taxes AFTER expenses....how do you think General Electric and Exxon legally get away with paying very little if any taxes even though they earned millions or even Billions annually ?

There is a major difference between the newly Rich and the WEALTHY.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 07:29 AM
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That's gift taxes.... free money is completely different than earned money.
Geez...
Here's the real deal...

The richest ten percent of the nation pays 43% of the nation's taxes....
But the richest ten percent of the nation owns 80 percent of the nation's wealth.
So in effect us regular folks are paying the taxes on over 30 percent of the richest Americans wealth.
If it was really an egalitarian system, the richest 10 percent of the nation would pay taxes based on the amount of wealth they control. And that would leave the rest of us to pick up the remaining 20 percent or so...
But we all know it don't work that way... The little guy gets it in the face... always...



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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Uh....

How in the world does somebody winning the lottery and giving half of their winnings to the government equal the Rich paying their fair share of taxes? All you're doing here is proving that the Government takes as much money as they can possibly get their hands on.. I'm failing to see your logic. If anything, you're "proving" that there's a VERY GOOD chance the lottery is already predetermined before they even start selling any of the tickets.


Try working at a hotel that's next to a World Poker Tournament sometime, you might see what kinda stuff is really going on in the background. Think "Casino Royale".

Casino Royale


edit on 1-8-2011 by Time2Think because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 07:42 AM
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reply to post by nh_ee
 


Thank you. Exactly. The Wealthy are the ones who create things such as the lottery. What better way to move around huge chunks of change? It's not exactly easy to put a few hundred million bucks in a suitcase...



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Time2Think
reply to post by nh_ee
 


Thank you. Exactly. The Wealthy are the ones who create things such as the lottery. What better way to move around huge chunks of change? It's not exactly easy to put a few hundred million bucks in a suitcase...


Wow ok you think that? - I hereby hand you MY OWN tinfoil hat to were


I dont think that the lottery, not in DK atleast is fixed in any ways. It seems very random to me who wins.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
so i hear that all the time on this board and i offer the something to ponder and i am going to use the lottery to either prove or disprove the urban myth.

everyone has heard of the powerball its projected jackpot tonite is $133,000 dollars

so if you take the cash option which is $69,800,000 that what you get right?

well not so fast after federal and state taxes you lose half that which leaves you with around $34,450,000 million dollars after taxes.

over $30 million in taxes before you ever see a dime.

so tell me agian who isnt paying their fair share?
edit on 30-7-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


Lets assume I make 30k and 1/3rd goes to taxes, that puts me at 20k to live off of for a year. Lets assume Joe Richguy makes 30m a year and he pays a flat 1/3rd like I do. This would give him 20m a year to live off of. The cost of living is the same for both of us. Who has paid more than their fair share? Why should I pay 1/3rd of my check to taxes when I can barley live off of the entire check?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Time2Think
It's not exactly easy to put a few hundred million bucks in a suitcase...



Yes actually it is, just takes a few of them is all.




edit on 1-8-2011 by ADVISOR because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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I noticed how most of you haven't mentioned Payroll Taxes.

Here is how it is going to go down.
Retirement Pensions under Social Security are going to be scrapped.
Medicare as a part of that program is going to be scrapped.
You'll have to pay for your own dental and medical insurance and premiums will go up all the time for no reason.
No paid breaks. (see Walmart violations)
No paid lunches.
No paid vacations.
No maternity leave. You get pregnant, you're fired.
Hourly wages will be replaced by salary. You'll work for an average of $17.00 an hour which seems higher than $14.00 an hour but on salary, you'll be working weekends for free with no overtime compensation.
No job benefits.
For those of you not on salary, you'll be a temporary worker.
Minimum wage will go down to $5.00 per hour.
Unsafe working conditions.
edit on 1-8-2011 by ren1999 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by Hilltaker
reply to post by Undertough
 


Hi,

I think that the poor are actually paying taxes in the U.S.


Because we are.


So am I misunderstanding you here? - Also a lot of the "criminel" rich (LMAO), is actually being put to justice and getting looked into there overseas accounts. Or atleast that is how it is going in Denmark.

Therefore many of them simply just move to another country. It is real simple actually. If you can
afford not to pay taxes why do you want to do it?



I am not sure I am understanding you or your quoting the word "criminel." Sorry.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
 


True. And I agree this is another part of the problem...loopholes and tax havens.

It's all a numbers game with the assumption that numbers and figures are dispassionate and don't lie. While it may be the case the a figure (percentage, ratio, amount, what-have-you) per se is straightforward and objective. However, the context in which it is presented still allows for subjective skew.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by Undertough
 


Actually, when it all comes down to where their wealth comes from (corporate holdings) it's important to remember that they actually use more "infrastructure" and "resources" than you or I will ever hope to.

If I have a honda (which I do) I will create X amount of wear and tear in a year on the roads that I traverse. On the contrary, a person with ownership of a corporation will have fleets of 18-wheelers, service trucks, company cars, private jets, usage of train cars and construction equipment (depending on the corporation in question).

While my little car may - along with thousands of my fellow commuters - eventually contribute to a pothole somewhere on the highway, the fleet of 18-wheelers will, at a faster rate, tear up that asphalt, which will then need to be replaced.

Likewise, I will only ever use the amount of water I need to consume to stay healthy, plus the typical usage that involves hygiene, cleaning and maintenance of landscaping. A corporation, on the other hand, will use many more gallons than my daily usage in the mere creation of a computer chip or GMO corn or the processing of paints, chemicals, hydro-fracking and more. They will use more oil, more light, more wood, more coal, more minerals, more oxygen...in short, they will use more of everything.

And in the process - for better or for worse - they will have become very rich due to their focusing in on a consumer product or service niche. Of course, I'm not talking about grunt laborers and mid-level management here, they don't understand this process well, or if they do, they are ambivalent to it, and often go to bat in support of it (probably because they assume it provides them with their job - collectively, however, we could scrutinize these corporations and see how much of job-creators they really are when you factor in off-shoring, down-sizing, mechanization, and so forth...).

I'm talking about the wealthy and affluent who run, own or control these corporations and who dodge the "tax burden" bullet in every way possible, with reckless abandon, leaving the infrastructure and resource security of the whole nation in jeopardy.

I suppose it really is up to us to stop buying their goods and using their services, but in the end, how entrenched are we? ...are they?



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