Let The People Vote? Yes...On Every Bill!!

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


Dear DeReK DaRkLy,

I hate to say it but I think people get the government they deserve. That means my starting point is that people should earn the right to better leaders. The politicians in office were voted for by us and we choose poorly. Directly voting on bills wont increase the participation level, few now vote for now anyways.

People vote their pocketbook and single issues that effect them rather than for people of character. Did anyone really believe that Clinton never inhaled or that Bush Jr was skilled enough to lead this country, I doubt it. They voted for people that they thought would benefit them more than the other guy. The population has chosen not to be interested in government and only demand things. Therefore we get people who promise things (supply and demand).

I truly believe that most people would vote (in a direct democracy situation) for less taxes and more services. Sounds good, free stuff. Except there is no free lunch, everything has a cost. How many people bother to really stay informed, how many even know the countries in Africa or South America or even Europe? It is popular to say that we have been "dumbed down"; but, it is not true, that assumes that people bothered becoming informed in the first place. They blame the educational system, that is silly, anyone can teach themselves and books are available for free on the internet and at the libraries.

The system of representative democracy worked well for a very long time. No system is perfect; but, it was the best we had seen in history and then we began changing it. We voted for term limits (which only causes politicians to kick the can down the road).

Someone recently asked people if they would vote for increased taxes on cigarettes or sweet drinks and one lady summed it up very nicely, she said she would be happy to vote for an increased tax on cigarettes because she didn't smoke. Everyone wants increased taxes so long as they don't have to pay them.

A lot of people like to quote Kennedy and his words about Secret Societies, they rarely quote another thing he said, don't ask what can be done for you, ask what you can do for your country.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


I love how you mention 1776. The founding fathers would laugh at you. They wanted a republic ruled by law not a democracy. What you want is a pure democracy.


Imagine a bank robber 150 years ago robs a bank and heads out of town. The town forms a posse and rounds him up they take a vote to hang him it passes by a slime margin. But wait the sheriff rides up and says he deserves his day in court. That is a republic vs a democracy.



Democracy is a very bad thing and our founders knew it. Wake up.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


I like it ...

Except...

People are stupid. I don't trust my countrymen to elect an official let alone read something they can't understand and vote on it...

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by justwokeup

 

The US populace are largely ignorant of the workings of the world or their own government. In the current state of ignorance and dogma you would get as much of a useful result by letting chimps vote on the bills.

Yet we let chimps vote for our officials? How is this better?

Its not and has not been for some time. When the populace is so baffled by bull# and so ill-informed they can be sold any old baloney by whatever self interested hack or corporate shill strolls into town. Once gathering enough votes its easy enough for that representative to then act for a few years in the interests of his financial patrons, whomever they may be. People vote on tribal/dogmatic lines and few pay close attention to what their elected representatives really do (unless its adultery, people cant get enough of that).

If your proposed solution was implemented most people wouldn't bother to read the bills and would vote according to the wishes of their favourite talking head (who's following the script of his paymasters).

The point I was making is that without an informed/engaged electorate any system will fail to the same extent as the current system. The people wielding power through the patronage of politicians will strive very hard to stop the electorate becoming informed or engaged. Unless you can fix this you will not achieve the change you are aiming for.

sorry but if you ever watch american idol you know how bad this idea is.

second thinks its bad

I actually like the idea of being able to vote online. A government website. All the issues at large. Forums for people (yes, citizens) to ask questions and have them answered by the politicians that are SUPPOSED to represent us. Sure, not everyone is going to go to a website to vote on bills, but given the chance, there are a lot of Americans that would visit and demand accountability. It's true, because if in 1776 they would've had the internet, they would've set the forum up to be for the American citizen. Whatever happened to the "transparency of government" Obama promised us?

It's like ATS. Not everyone on the internet comes here, but those who do have the wherewithal to actually engage in interesting topics. Not everyone would go to the government voting site, but a vast percentage of the population would be interested in participating more than they do now. We are so far out of touch with our representatives, and that is the way they like it. Except at election time, of course.

I'm a little offended by the posters that suggest the average citizen is as dumb as a box of bricks. That implies the inability and the lack of desire to learn anything new. That's troubling to me. That's like saying we like our government, and don't change anything.

It's possible for the government to educate it's citizens. It's totally possible to post that information online. Is it because the American Citizen doesn't want it? We've never had the option. It's never been tried, and TPTB don't want it that way. Why?

Because they would be out of a free ride.

Soon enough, my friends, soon enough.

reply to post by Druid42

Soon enough, my friends, soon enough.

Thank you so much for this post!!!

You have restored some measure of faith in me today.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

I think it's time that our legislators hand the vote over to US. That's right... I said LET THE PEOPLE VOTE on every Bill that they introduce. How does that sound? And folks, if you think the people of America are too STUPID to run their own country, just remember that this also includes yourself, your family and all of your friends!

Star and flag for a great post, DeReK DaRkLy! I have been saying this for years, that the People should be who makes the votes on things, and not the politicians who we all know are bought and paid for, with few exceptions. There could be a secure website, like a bank would have. Everyone gets an account using their personal information, and then logs on when a vote is to me made. The issues are there to read, we vote, and that is that. This could work.

reply to post by autowrench

Star and flag for a great post, DeReK DaRkLy! I have been saying this for years, that the People should be who makes the votes on things, and not the politicians who we all know are bought and paid for, with few exceptions. There could be a secure website, like a bank would have. Everyone gets an account using their personal information, and then logs on when a vote is to me made. The issues are there to read, we vote, and that is that. This could work.

Thank you very much!
Common sense is our only hope.

I don't think this idea would work too well. Just like congress, most people would vote without reading the bills at all. People would tune into their favorite news opinion channel and be told how they should vote.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy


To even consider this kind of move you would have to be fully supportive of three things

- A literacy test.
- A civics test
- A reasonable high poll tax

Absent that you would have absolute mob rule

Originally posted by BadBoYeed
Sounds good, but we would have to go vote almost everyday. so unless we could do it like voting for american idol (text etc) i don't think it would work.

they could make it that unless they get 3/4 of the populace turn out or something the bill gets thrown out, or the vote remains open until that many people vote on it, or voted on again until there is enough public interest to pass it.

that would cut down on the largely useless legislation that is pushed through the pipe, legislation for the sake of legislation, pork barrel legislation etc.

take a look at this, and ask yourself is all this really necessary?

hr 2835 for instance, is legislation to establish a committee to create legislation!


and another great scene from brazil

Considering that less than half of the voters bother to show up for general elections, how many people do you think would actually show up to vote on a bill like this one: HR 658? No-one. The only people who would vote would be people with a vested interest in the bill's passage. Want free money? Float a complicated bill that no-one but you understands and help yourself to some pork.

Originally posted by Bramble Iceshimmer
The Emperor will clear out the remnants of the old republic and the people and other governments will fall in line. I think that was something close to the line in Star Wars and we are seeing the evil Emperor Obama being challenged by the Tea Party Jedi's.

You are delusional.

Those "tea party Jedis" consist of Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann.

You Tea Party folks are just as gullible as the fools that voted for Barack Obama in 2008, on hopes that a grassroots candidate will come in and buck the status quo.

Anyone who attempts to do anything will be murdered or disgraced.

Put down the Ron Paul kool aid.

amazing idea on paper but horrific in reality. most people are ignorant small minded and vindictive. those who went against the grain of acceptability would be in serious danger.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

 

I like it ...

Except...

People are stupid. I don't trust my countrymen to elect an official let alone read something they can't understand and vote on it...

Agreed. You have fools that actually believe the horsespit that pours out of the mouths of scum like Barack Obama and Sarah Palin.

But at the same time, who do you trust more, your dumb countrymen, or the corrupt politicos that will vote against what's good for YOU every single time in favor of who is filling their campaign coffers?

We need a reset button, and a few public hangings.

Why not direct internet sofocracy (rule of the wise)? Solves both issues with corrupt representatives (since there are none, its direct) and voter stupidity (since its rule of the wise, not equal votes).

All voters would propose laws and vote through the internet directly about the proposed laws submitted by other citizens (kinda like national internet forum with poll option), BUT the individual votes would not have the same weight - weight would depend on the individuals education, maybe test results (both general knowledge, IQ and EQ), criminal record, expertise and degree in the issue the law relates to, longterm unemployment may lower the weight, special achievements like Nobel prize may increase it etc..

Democracy 2.0

reply to post by illuminatislave

But at the same time, who do you trust more, your dumb countrymen, or the corrupt politicos that will vote against what's good for YOU every single time in favor of who is filling their campaign coffers?

Exactly!
This is also the argument that I use.

And over time, the citizens will become more savvy and responsible as they exercise their civic duty to vote on every bill that pertains to them.

reply to post by Subjective Truth

Imagine a bank robber 150 years ago robs a bank and heads out of town. The town forms a posse and rounds him up they take a vote to hang him it passes by a slime margin. But wait the sheriff rides up and says he deserves his day in court.

We live in a more educated world now.
I'd take modern street justice over a trip through our court systems any day.