The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Instead of blaming one over the over, lets just be totally honest here.

They are all full of crap.

Left, right, liberal, conservative, it doesn't matter.

All crap.

Too easy
Thats just dismissing it all and not bothering to care (after all, it never gets better).

Apathy is voter disenfranchisement and something "they" work hard at creating...an apathetic person will not bother paying attention to whats going on, and allow for more corruption.

reply to post by SaturnFX


obama and the democratic party are more fascist in my opinion lots of examples.

but when i hear people say the governemnt is a corporation and the democrats actively seek to expand its power and influence.

the democrats win fascist hands down

Originally posted by civilchallenger
reply to post by inforeal

 

The OP is just plain wrong. The idea that the Tea Party is threatening the US government with default is plain wrong. The idea that 10% of congress is actually able to tell the other 90% what they have to do is plain wrong. So inforeal, let me know how 10% of congress can tell the other 90% what to do. Please tell me where the Tea Party is getting their magical powers.

Excellant point! If the Dems ( /repubs) are So affable ;amenable and easy to get along with Boehner ,and Reid could come together on a plan and get their followers to vote together and trump any holdouts. Not happening...

reply to post by SaturnFX


There are more choices than just conservative and liberal, contrary to what American politicians would have you believe.

The problem with both sides in Congress is that they are so wrapped up in ideals and principles like religious cults, they won't deal practically and realistically with anything.

Don't get me wrong I do care and I am not apathetic. I am watching current events like a hawk.

reply to post by 46ACE


If you came to me with an idea that involves using my vehicle to commit mass property damage, including the destruction of my vehicle, would it be in my best interest to let you go through with your plan?

I suspect that's how a lot of democrats feel about this issue, including Obama.

Why is it even an issue, i might ask? Up until the current presidency the debt ceiling limit was raised every 2.6 years. It's an issue now because the Tea Party knows that if they're able to make America collapse economically, then the next election cycle will cause even more civil unrest, and with their platform of pointing the finger of blame at the current government will be in their best interest to seize more power in the government.

Quite simply you cannot enact the type of massive government cuts that the Tea Party is calling for without a gigantic blow to the American economy. All of those cuts that are being called for, currently provide liquidity to the economy through SS checks, and by providing employment to citizens. If you cut that funding right now, that's all money that will be taken out of the economic pool, and cause the economy to come to a stand still.

I agree that government spending NEEDS to be curbed, but the current solution that is being presented by the Tea Party is absolutely the wrong way to go about it.

Originally posted by neo96
governemnt is a corporation and the democrats actively seek to expand its power and influence.

Wanted to address that point because it is a fair point overall.

Yes, there is a issue, I don't want corporations tied into government, it is the ruin of it, nor do I want government to expand...I want it to shrink dramatically on social issues. I want no laws telling me how I must choose my path to happiness, I want science and medicine unhinged so there is no restrictions due to day to day ethical concerns (why the hell can't we clone people anyhow?!). I do however want government to play a more active role in progressing our sciences...
Large corporations won't build infrustructure, but they will grab it once built...what we need is for government to focus on what they are there for...building stuff that is not profitable for any given corporation, then letting the people use it for enhancing life (like roads..).

I look at the government and I want to see more NASA projects, huge robotics movements to help out progressing our civilization into the future, to build massive cave networks so people can start living underground should they want, etc...big profitless projects that help out our civilization. This will require big things, else we are all doomed to be chicken ranchers as the chinese take over and rule the very near future.


(sonofa...I hit edit when I thought I hit quote...now the initial post is toast...bah!...anyhow, it was the definition of facism (showing it is basically far right wing intolerant system)) then posted a Bachman video (and quoted some in this thread here showing total intolerance...was pretty clever...grrr...time for some caffine)

reply to post by Evil_Santa


alot of americans have woken up to the sheer stupidfty of government

the very defintion of insanity doing the same thing over and over agian expecting different results

raising the debt is raise the limit of what you already cant pay for because your spending too much.

it has to stop

14 trillion in debt and over 150 trillion of programs that can never be paid for.

its time to change the station

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

There are more choices than just conservative and liberal, contrary to what American politicians would have you believe.

The problem with both sides in Congress is that they are so wrapped up in ideals and principles like religious cults, they won't deal practically and realistically with anything.

Don't get me wrong I do care and I am not apathetic. I am watching current events like a hawk.

edit on 30/7/11 by MikeboydUS because: add

Well, my ultimate view of a perfect government cannot be implemented yet, but ultimately it is a technocracy where scientists and the wisest and educated lead, specialists run their own fields, and committees are formed..and thats it. You want a voice on a issue, you must become highly proficient in your field and you will be discussing that and that alone..

But, it requires advancements both in technology and philosophy..also a complete end to corporatism and replace it with regulated capitalism with a socialist overtone...its many things in one.

Venus Project has a starting concept.

reply to post by SaturnFX


unless a bunch of left wing writers get to write their own history.

a party that gives themselves complete control over everyone else is fascist

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "

private power is the democratic party that has more power that the people of this country

are you really going to argue with one of the greatest heros of the democratic party?

reply to post by neo96


You must have missed my final paragraph where I said that things need to change, but the current course of action isn't the right way of changing it.

Also -- since you're attempting to educate me on the definition of insanity, please allow for me to educate you on the difference between rational and irrational behaviors.

Rational - Have an emotion, think about it, then act.

Irrational - Have an emotion, then act.

When it comes to our overall political divide, the split in society was there for a very-very long time. Blaming the 'Tea Party' for the problems of our nation is just foolish. Sure, they are not really helping anything, but they were not the cause of the political split.

Do you know when all this crap started to pick up?

Link: US Presidential Election 2000

Regardless about who would have won the election, the American public was already heading down this road. Bush, Gore, and Santa could not have stopped the consequences of that election.

We are living in an age of clashing ideologies. Since there are no more undiscovered islands to establish, we are all stuck in this situation until the space age goes into full affect. Or, we will enter into a massive ideological war.

reply to post by Evil_Santa


so lets get this straight small less powerful government where the people take care of themselves and not the government is on the wrong path?

yeah ok guess im on the wrong path too.

reply to post by neo96


You're putting words into my mouth that I never stated.

I said that a smaller government is a good thing, but it needs to come about in a more gradual process. The large government didn't happen overnight, and a small government can't happen overnight either. The tea party doesn't get that, and making the large scale changes to the governement, which they're pushing for, will only cause further disarray of the american economy.

Originally posted by neo96
governemnt is a corporation and the democrats actively seek to expand its power and influence.

Wanted to address that point because it is a fair point overall.

Yes, there is a issue, I don't want corporations tied into government, it is the ruin of it, nor do I want government to expand...I want it to shrink dramatically on social issues. I want no laws telling me how I must choose my path to happiness, I want science and medicine unhinged so there is no restrictions due to day to day ethical concerns (why the hell can't we clone people anyhow?!). I do however want government to play a more active role in progressing our sciences...
Large corporations won't build infrustructure, but they will grab it once built...what we need is for government to focus on what they are there for...building stuff that is not profitable for any given corporation, then letting the people use it for enhancing life (like roads..).

I look at the government and I want to see more NASA projects, huge robotics movements to help out progressing our civilization into the future, to build massive cave networks so people can start living underground should they want, etc...big profitless projects that help out our civilization. This will require big things, else we are all doomed to be chicken ranchers as the chinese take over and rule the very near future.


(sonofa...I hit edit when I thought I hit quote...now the initial post is toast...bah!...anyhow, it was the definition of facism (showing it is basically far right wing intolerant system)) then posted a Bachman video (and quoted some in this thread here showing total intolerance...was pretty clever...grrr...time for some caffine)



-requoted-

All people who once achieve power get deluded by power.
It is either power for good or for evil.

The Tea Party should be a real, real Party separate from the Republican Party, they then would have what they truly deserve.

By holding that they are Republicans they can push their agenda even so more strongly.

I am for Freedoms and for "We the People" as written. But not for Corporations to be on an equal footing.
When you have these who are considered as flesh and blood and allowed to pour money (influence) into a real human running for Power do you all actually think that this is good for "We the People" or for "We the Corporations"
We must consider them equal and if we do why Oh why do they as people have special tax loop holes and "We the People" do not?

An Example of telling lies and being above the Law:

Take for instance Rep. Joe Walsh who stands with the Tea Party on Family values. He is immune to prosecution for being a Dead Beat Dad. Owing $114,000 in back child support and not providing any Medical Care for those children. I do believe there was a Law enacted by Prsident Clinton about being a dead beat dad. And one action of such law, made it a Federal Crime being so with imprisonment as a result. Am I wrong in this action taken by the President?
Giving $35,000 to his own Campaign and receiving back $14,000.
As a proud member of the Tea Party he spouts fiscal responsibility and wishes for the whole of America to do as He, that being a Fiscal responsible individual of a high Family Value mindset.
If he is an example of what the Tea Party is in reality, then no one should adhere to those policies.

I have eyes to see and ears to hear.

I will use him as just one example of what money can buy.
I find most Politicians have no skill other then to twist "We the People's" minds.
We are so lost to our own dumbing down.
May God Save the Pure in Heart and destroy all the rest.

Tea Party should be a separate third Party and the fourth should be Libertarians and the fifth Socialist's and the sixth should be the communist and the seventh should be Christian and the 8th Atheists and so forth such as in a Social Democracy.

Originally posted by dakota1s2
reply to post by inforeal

 

The "tea party" is exactly democratic. They are just a bunch of average people, mostly middle america group who see...

If you do some research you will find the "grass roots" claims are completely fabricated.

The "tea party" is the most pure form of corporate special interest.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

unless a bunch of left wing writers get to write their own history.

a party that gives themselves complete control over everyone else is fascist

"The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. "

private power is the democratic party that has more power that the people of this country

are you really going to argue with one of the greatest heros of the democratic party?

The democrat or republican party is -not- a private power.
The quote is talking about corporatists...too big to fail crap, the ability for stockholders to purchase government.
The partys are a representation of the people..
I agree fully with that statement, such rampant corporatism in all its forms should not be allowed...however, whenever you discuss regulation, one side specifically tends to scream socialism, class warfare, etc.

Sorry, but the biggest and loudest movements have been coming from the right...deregulate, make corporations people, and allow them to spend infinate amounts of money anonymously to steer campaigns how they want..meanwhile disabling unions and any other way the average person can form up to be heard.

Its total hogwash and I think even you know it deep inside you (but you would probably rather catch on fire verses admit that its wrong)

Originally posted by inforeal
The Tea Party is anti-democratic and guilty of abuse of power


Amazing people here don’t see that the blackmail that the Tea party is doing to the US government is dictatorial, anti-democratic, anathema to the US constitution, dangerous, and is setting a precedent for worst things to come.


Here is the scenario:

These 85 or so congress people voted in office in 2010 by Tea party support are not remotely the majority of the American people, yet they are using their newly acquired power to threaten the American system of government with default if they don’t get there way. In this scenario it is the debt ceiling that they are using to do their blackmail. Previously, raising the debt ceiling was, is, and has been a bi-partisan simple process, that even the conservative Republican Ronald Regan has denounced people for playing politics with. They, the Tea party are using this vulnerable part of the Governmental system to blackmail it . . . it’s that simple. This is an abuse of power, undemocratic, and fascistic. And those who do not see it this way. . . don’t because they are partial to the cause of the Tea party Republicans. When this very undemocratic method one day is turned against them—then they will see the danger that this is to a democracy. Turn the tables: what if 85 extreme left-wing congress people did the same thing to the country? How would you then feel about that?

As of now because of these people the US economy will likely default and enormous economic disasterous repercussions will be resultant.

So bottom line, 85 freshman congress people who don’t represent even 1 percent of the American people have taken over the Republican Party and have blackmailed the system to do their bidding and if not have threatened to destabilize the American economic system.

That is anti-democratic, and an abuse of power, and opposite everything the spirit and letter of the US constitution stands for.

Oh cry me a river.

reply to post by SaturnFX

Yes, there is a issue, I don't want corporations tied into government

but the government is a corporation and then theres the "union" issue same thing as a corporation just a slightly hipper rap.

I want science and medicine unhinged so there is no restrictions due to day to day ethical concerns (why the hell can't we clone people anyhow?!).

necessity is the mother of invention getting governemt out of that equation and let "private interests" do their thing.

I do however want government to play a more active role in progressing our sciences...

get rid of the department of education and stop throwing bilions that produce nothing but well intellecutally challenged people.

Large corporations won't build infrustructure, but they will grab it once built...what we need is for government to focus on what they are there for...building stuff that is not profitable for any given corporation, then letting the people use it for enhancing life (like roads..).

disagree where did the phone come from ? where did the intercontinental railroad come from? private business.
and its not government to rob someone from new york to build something a person in california will never use in their lifetimes.

infrastructure are state and local issues and a progressive of a need that gets filled by someone trying to make a buck from where all private wealth comes from in this country.

I look at the government and I want to see more NASA projects,

government control since the 60s when hardly any civilians get to go where no man has gone before.

i am with private enterprise on this one nothing government does ever works out. agian someone trying to make a buck and get rich that has the benefit of improving their own lives leads to improving the rest of ours.

thats the stroy of any "Rich" person.

man i look to private enterprise and someone trying to get rich the only thing government has to do is g et out of the way and stop impeding that.

fascism is pushing all that off on to government because aww shucks those people just can fend for themselves

reply to post by SaturnFX


That may or may not work, ultimately its an issue of what is practical and realistic, not idealistic.

Fanatical idealism, from the Crusades to Communism, is hands down the most destructive force in the history of our species.

Personally I favor stratocracy, preferably a Stratocratic Republic, based on world history and human nature in general.

Oddly, in Heinlein's Starship Troopers, a work I should note is required and recommended reading by officers of the US Marines and US Army, a stratocratic federation emerges after a failed global technocracy.

Regardless of which or a hybrid of the two would work the best in the end, we still have a mob of fanatical idealists in Washington running towards a cliff and arguing about how they are going to stop running instead of simply stopping, which would be the practical thing to do.

Meanwhile, even more extreme fanatics are waiting in the wings for the whole system to crash so they can peddle their extremist garbage to a very desperate public.

People need to be vigilant, especially if things get Weimar bad. I tend to think though that we will do what is needed though, unlike the Wehrmacht who failed to protect their homeland from extremists, if things get that bad.