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About The U.S. debt-ceiling

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posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by iNkGeEk
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


never...a default would be an unprecedented event.

Er, um. . . wrong.
Please look at the link I provided.




posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by iNkGeEk
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


never...a default would be an unprecedented event.

Er, um. . . wrong.
Please look at the link I provided.


Er um... wrong. Your link is wrong. You are wrong.

check out my link


The U.S. has never defaulted? Reinhart and Rogoff observe that the U.S., Canada, New Zealand and Australia have never defaulted in the traditional sense, but they admit that at least the U.S. has defaulted in the form of currency devaluation. Specifically, they mention the abrogation of the gold clause in 1933, which meant that debt paid to American creditors (from 1928 to 1946 the US had no external debt) was repaid in paper currency rather than gold.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Crapspackle
 

1933.
Link



Gonna have to find an accurate soruce for me. Got one?



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


what is just so god aweful about a balanced budget?


Nothing. You did not read all the words I used apparently.


that means they have to spend within their limits?

thats common sense stuff.


Sure it would. Keep telling yourself that.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


Oh my god.

A requirement that Washington be responsible for their actions and balance what they spend vs what they take from us.

The horror, the horror. . . . . .


Actually I no problem with that. Unfortunately that is not what the BBA is. It really looks like some of you have failed to look into any of this even a little since you did not even see this coming. This is old news. Hell, it was news when Boehner came back from the TEA party with the one addition he was told would not pass the senate.

You guys look into that BBA thingy and get back to me. I have no problem with Washington having to have a balanced budget. Unfortunately that does not actually accomplish that.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by iNkGeEk
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


never...a default would be an unprecedented event.


I know that.
You know that.

Let's see how hard Bezzer tries to deny that.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by Crapspackle
 


well beezers right a 2 second google search is all it takes.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


that was a "default" on bonds, not on interest due on foreign debt or payments to SS/Military salaries/etc.

During FDR's first term, the US refused to pay the debt owed on Treasury Bonds people purchased to fund WWI, via gold equivalency thus paying the bond in a significantly devalued dollar or not at all, to try and get out of the depression, which was backed by the US Supreme Court.

This default would be different in nature as the US would essentially not be paying its minimum monthly credit card payment, nor would it pay part of it's payroll. and since the US$ is the worlds reserve currency, it would harm or destroy financial systems across the globe.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


well beezers right a 2 second google search is all it takes.


Actually if you take a little longer than 2 seconds and read some of those links you will quickly find that Bezzer is wrong and that is why you failed to provide those proving links you found. I have plenty.


The United States government has never defaulted on its obligations to pay its debt. It has never, ever missed a payment. This is one of the reasons that “flights to quality” typically involve buying US Treasury debt. Uniquely in the history of sovereign borrowers, the United States has paid when it said it would pay.


I keep finding plenty of proof that not only have we never defaulted but the 1933 default Bezzer speaks of was not a default at all. What did you find?


The 1933 Default. In the summer of 1933, Congress passed the “Joint Resolution to Assure Uniform Value to the Coins and Currencies of the United States” which declared invalid and provisions of obligations of the federal government which were “purported” to give the creditor the right to require repayment in gold. The Roosevelt administration wanted to depreciate the paper currency, and thought the “gold clauses” contained in various bonds were an obstacle.

This is arguably the closest the US government came to defaulting. But this is more like monetizing debt than defaulting. It is closer to having the Federal Reserve inflate our way out of debt than what Rep. Ryan is proposing.




You can say Bezzer is right all night long. Until either one of you proves it it does not really matter.
source



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by iNkGeEk

This default would be different in nature as the US would essentially not be paying its minimum monthly credit card payment, nor would it pay part of it's payroll. and since the US$ is the worlds reserve currency, it would harm or destroy financial systems across the globe.

So now we're redefining "default"?
Okay.

Th U.S. would/could make payments with the money coming in. That the government has decided to prioritize what they want to pay is another issue.

We can nitpick (see cropcircle's ? posts) about what defines a default. But the ramifications would not be as dire as many are saying.

It's actually been more common than folks would think.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 02:19 AM
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its not a default if you offer to pay the bond with a devalued dollar instead of the gold equivalency. the Supreme Court even backed FDR's decision to do this. So they could still pay the bonds back, but at a much lower price.

this is plain, flat out, not paying some of our bills because there is quite literally no money. And this default IS a bigger deal than you are trying to play it off as. Its not just the US economy at stake here, it's the WORLD economy. why do you think the rest of the world is waited with baited breath on if the US defaults or not??

World views on US default

Stocks are starting to suffer
Stocks tumble

if this was a much ado about nothing, then the rest of the world wouldn't be so worried. but when your countries currency is tied the value of the US$ and you see the US$ is on the verge of collapse you tend to get a little nervous. so the US default it kind of a big deal.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 02:31 AM
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reply to post by iNkGeEk
 

A default is coming regardless of size.
By definition, it is an inability to pay a debt, regardless of how it is restructured.

A mass denial, a "kick the can down the road" mentality might get us through the next election cycle, but that would be it.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


i totally agree that a default is coming...not arguing that at all. its the ramifications that i'm worried about. a default is going to be more than an annoying gnat flying around your face...its going to be more like a swarm of killer bees relentlessly pursuing you.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
We've defaulted in the past and survived. Other countries have also defaulted and survived.
This whole issue is nothing more than a fight to continue expanding our debt.

Defaulting wouldactually be better for our country than expanding the debt ceiling. But the scare tactics being used are very effective.


Now now Beezer....can you tell me when the United States of America has ever defaulted? Stop buying into this notion that we are at risk of default (which by definition would be we don't pay our debtors.)



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by iNkGeEk
reply to post by beezzer
 


that was a "default" on bonds, not on interest due on foreign debt or payments to SS/Military salaries/etc.


Even not paying (though would be disastrous to the United States of America's credit trustworthiness, would not be a default)

The only way we would default is if the Treasury Secretary, under the guidance of his boss, the President would allow prioritization of funds to not pay securities and interest. According to tax receipts, the Treasury has enough funds to cover those liabilities.

As far as the rest, major prioritization would have to ensue. But those obligations are internal and have nothing to do with the definition of "default". They will though have ramifications in the confidence in the dollar and U.S. debt.




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