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The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Originally posted by Mudman21
I read in an article yesterday that said two options the president can legally do but is holding off as a last resort.
1. Since the president cannot print paper money, there is no law against coinage. He would mint two platinum coins with a face value of 1 trillion each and deposit them into the federal reserve.
2. Sell the federal reserve all government owned property for 2 trillion and then after the fed deposited the monies in the account, sell the land back to the government for a buck!
If I can find the article, I will post the link!
Originally posted by nunya13
I agree on this one. I don't see how the president can enforce the 14th Amendment when the 14th Amendment clearly says that only congress can enforce the article in reference.
However, I am not constitutional expert, and I would THINK that Obama would know that this provision is in there. Is it at all possible we are misinterpreting? I have no idea....
If the president reasonably believes that the public debt will be put in question for either reason, Section 4 comes into play once again. His predicament is caused by the combination of statutes that authorize and limit what he can do: He must pay appropriated monies, but he may not print new currency and he may not float new debt. If this combination of contradictory commands would cause him to violate Section 4, then he has a constitutional duty to treat at least one of the laws as unconstitutional as applied to the current circumstances.
This would be like a statute that ordered the president to hire 50 new employees provided that none of them is a woman. The second requirement violates the Constitution, so the president can hire the 50 employees and ignore the discriminatory provision.
Here the president would argue that existing appropriations plus the debt ceiling create an unconstitutional combination of commands. Therefore he chooses to obey the appropriations bill -- which was passed later in time anyway -- and ignores the debt ceiling. He orders the secretary of the Treasury to issue new debt sufficient to pay the government's bills as they come due.
Originally posted by mossme89
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
Still, i can't say I approve. I feel like the whole idea of Congress is for them to work together, and if they can't agree, then they bring down the entire system. I'd rather have that then the president going rogue because that opens the door for further abuses.
Originally posted by ispyed
Isn't this debt crisis really caused by your constitution anyway? The whole idea of having a debt ceiling was because the government needed more money during the first world war so you didn't have these political spats when the government needed more money. You don't have a problem paying your bills just raise the debt ceiling like good people and fight it out at the next presidential election. Its your form of democracy.
At the moment the USA looks very silly and I know a lot of normal Americans feel the same. So forget about impeachment and 14th Amendment and raise the credit limit if not for just your own sakes but for the rest of the financial world.
Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
Originally posted by nunya13
I agree on this one. I don't see how the president can enforce the 14th Amendment when the 14th Amendment clearly says that only congress can enforce the article in reference.
However, I am not constitutional expert, and I would THINK that Obama would know that this provision is in there. Is it at all possible we are misinterpreting? I have no idea....
The President can do this because Congress is giving the President conflicting orders.
All the debt that needs to be payed has been approved by Congress, and Congress has imposed this debt ceiling. By law, the President is supposed to carry out both...if he can't, he can "ignore" one of the orders to fulfill the other. He isn't going to ignore paying the debt, so he will ignore the debt ceiling.
This article explains it well on page 3.
articles.cnn.com...:OPINION
If the president reasonably believes that the public debt will be put in question for either reason, Section 4 comes into play once again. His predicament is caused by the combination of statutes that authorize and limit what he can do: He must pay appropriated monies, but he may not print new currency and he may not float new debt. If this combination of contradictory commands would cause him to violate Section 4, then he has a constitutional duty to treat at least one of the laws as unconstitutional as applied to the current circumstances.
This would be like a statute that ordered the president to hire 50 new employees provided that none of them is a woman. The second requirement violates the Constitution, so the president can hire the 50 employees and ignore the discriminatory provision.
Here the president would argue that existing appropriations plus the debt ceiling create an unconstitutional combination of commands. Therefore he chooses to obey the appropriations bill -- which was passed later in time anyway -- and ignores the debt ceiling. He orders the secretary of the Treasury to issue new debt sufficient to pay the government's bills as they come due.
Originally posted by mossme89
As many of you already know, some are calling for Obama to use the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling unilaterally. This cannot be allowed, as it would be a step towards a presidential dictatorship in the US.
Originally posted by louieprima
And should Obama go over Congress on the issue, he is basically declaring himself dictator of the United States.
SO, based on the premise that Congress is giving conflicting orders, means the Moron on Chief can turn around act illegally as well?
The 14th Ammendment was NOT ratified and signed into law for any purpose other than to indemnify the Union for the debt of the rebellious confederate states. The sting of that unpaid debt was a message to bankers who were known to be hedging their bets during the war.
Any other interpretations of the ammendment constitutes the same abuse this 'school' of political clowns have been subjecting us to for a century.
Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by Maxmars
The 14th Ammendment was NOT ratified and signed into law for any purpose other than to indemnify the Union for the debt of the rebellious confederate states. The sting of that unpaid debt was a message to bankers who were known to be hedging their bets during the war.
Any other interpretations of the ammendment constitutes the same abuse this 'school' of political clowns have been subjecting us to for a century.
If that isn't EXPLICITLY stated in the 14th Ammendment...then YOU are interpreting that yourself.
What makes your INTERPRETATION any more valid than someone elses???
You can't claim to know the intent...if it truly was the intent, then it should of been EXPLICITLY stated in the law.
Isn't this debt crisis really caused by your constitution anyway? ...
.... If interim or full-year appropriations are not enacted into law, the time interval when agency appropriations are not enacted is referred to as a “funding gap.”5 A funding gap also may occur any time a CR expires and another CR (or regular appropriations bill) is not enacted immediately thereafter.When a funding gap occurs, the federal government begins a “shutdown” of the affected activities, including the furlough of non-emergency personnel and curtailment of agency activities and services. Programs that are funded by laws other than annual appropriations acts (e.g., entitlements like Social Security) also may be affected by a funding gap, if program execution relies on activities that receive annually appropriated funding
..... www.fas.org...