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New ATS Poll: The U.S. Debt Crisis

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posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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The highest possible condition that could be assigned in this situation (not this particular issue, but government behavior in general) is Danger.

The first two actions to be done in a Danger are Bypass and Handle. The people who survive Dangers somehow get these steps done.

The next step is to assign the condition. This is seldom done. Usually one is unwilling to admit that they actually got into a dangerous situation and try to treat it as only an emergency.

The next step is to find the out-ethics and correct it. If this isn't done, things can only get worse. If this is done, things have a chance of improving. This site is about a hundred light years ahead of the U.S. government or any other government in doing something positive in this direction.

The next step is to reorganize. Most groups try to do this step without doing the previous one. Do you see how this could cause disaster? You can't evaluate a situation correctly until you can get true data about it. The danger occurred because false data was entered into the picture. If you don't track down the source of those lies and find out what truth they are concealing, your analysis of the situation would be based on false data, and your reorganization plan would, at best, leave important parts out.

The last step is to recommend firm policy that will thereafter detect and/or prevent the dangerous situation from recurring. That is what the Republicans are trying to do with the Balanced Budget Amendment. But is that really the correct fix?

What if someone got into a bad financial situation because he got robbed. That would be dangerous. He got robbed because he habitually left his front door unlocked. That was out-ethics. But a "friend" of his at work assured him that the neighborhood was very safe. That was the false data. Who was his "friend" really? A member of a crime ring who specialized in walking into houses where the front door was unlocked and taking whatever they wanted. In this case, would the correct reorganization involve his spending habits? NO. It would involve how he evaluated data he got from "friends." And what would be his new firm policy? Maybe: "Don't believe everything people tell you, even if they seem sincere." His unbalanced budget had nothing to do with his financial condition!

And our unbalanced budget might not have anything to do with our financial condition. Ethics needs to go in before the truth will become apparent.




posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Just wanted to toss in a quick thanks to the ATS leadership for a seemingly quick response to member beezzer's suggestion for this poll just yesterday. I enjoyed taking it and am looking forward to future ATS polls, as I'm sure they will continue to grant valuable insight into the collective mind of the ATS member base.

Insert All Your Base joke here,

-Sek



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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can you guarantee increased gdp? no. can you guarantee reducing your spending. yes. how is this even something that needs to be debated. the president has touted his position on spending more to make more. you are just prolonging the inevitable collapse. thanks but no thanks.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:28 AM
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A quote from a good source .... The man himself.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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The main issue is and has always been misappropriation of funds. Reaching the hands in the "cookie jar" to borrow the cash and thinking that they can always pay it back, eventually they hit all of the "cookie jars" and there is no more to hit. Instead of just spending less to the point where they can afford to replace the monies taken, they just keep spending more and taking more.

I would hate to see these peoples household bank books and the mess they are probably in.

You can only get so much water out of the glass, and empty glass will yield nothing. People have had their pockets picked clean there is nothing left, many people are barely holding onto their homes because of escrow used when houses were worth more and now the amounts people owe on there homes outweighs the current value. Cutting spending is the only answer, taxes would be fine and good if there was any money left to collect from, at least in the middle and lower classes it is this way, if the upper classes believe there is money for taxes, let them pay the taxes.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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I don't think we should just "raise" the debt ceiling...I mean, so basically, their idea is...hey we've reached our limit of what we can spend, so lets just raise it. Its like a college kid with a credit card, he gets a 2000 limit, maxes it out, so the the credit companies brilliant idea is.."hey, lets raise it to 10,000!" riiiiigggghttt..that'll work!.

I say the ceiling needs to of course now be raised, simply because they took to long to do anything else..I mean, why were they not already working on this? if 4 years ago, they had upped the taxes a bit, and cut spending, would they need to be in such a rush now? again, college kid syndrome..,my bill is due tomorrow!!! hey mom/dad can I borrow some money? I'll pay ya back! I swear! give me a break! my 10 year old can handle money better than that. I say let Obama's daughter's take over, maybe we'll actually turn the country around!

As for Boehner, its not his fault, you can not give a man a name that goes along with the only brain he has and expect him to think straight.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 02:40 AM
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I wish the poll was a little more specific. I am in favor of spending cuts if it targets the military, homeland security, war on drugs, and foreign aid. I am against cuts that target the less fortunate in this country. I do favor raising taxes on corporations that have been skating but am against raising taxes on the middle class.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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Maybe it's just me, but Texas is the most dangerous state to mess with, i would looooove to see them

stand up and show their true colours, and i know they have it in them to do it!!!



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by Rightback
 





We are not that far north. U2 was in Montreal 2 weeks ago, Paul McCartney perform in quebec city last week and Rod Stewart tonight and tomorrow


Cool, good to see you have all those new bands and artists setting the scene out there. If your into music and want new talent you really cant beat the UK. That new talent here, will probably be be big in Canada in about 30 years



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 04:40 AM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Im not American so im not bothered either way.

Our national news tells us that raisng the debt celing will only delay the inevitable so good luck with that

edit on 29-7-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


I wish our news was that honest in the US! They seem to be in denial about the whole thing. Every time I think about the current situation it's as if I can see it all written in a history book. After (if) society recovers, I could see my future kid or grandkids coming up to me after school to interview me for a project about the economic crisis of 2011/2012 and why we were so stupid to not see it coming. And I'll say "I did see it coming! But the politicians were so corrupt we couldn't do anything, they were taking away more freedoms by the day, and most people didn't care and were hooked on these stupid shows called American Idol and Jersey Shore!" and they'll be like "What is Jersey Shore? Sounds darrzed!" (or whatever hip thing kids will say in place of lame in the future).



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 04:50 AM
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Personally, I think this is all scare tactics, the government has no intention of defaulting on anything !! Its all just B.S. to justify a tax increase. Obama has screwed this country just by being elected...he is an idiot. The day Obama was sworn-in, the company I used to work for placed a hiring and wage freeze for all employees. A few months later 40 people got laid-off. Obama is the whole problem, he is an idiot and everyone knows it !!! The government is not broke, I just heard a senator last night (7-29-2011) stating the government takes in 200 billion a month, we are not broke !!! Also, he stated that it takes 20 billion a month to pay our "interest" on USA debt. Geeesh that leaves 180 billion a month for everything else. (one month folks).



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 04:56 AM
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For all the drama and fear mongering, the debt ceiling was just raised in 2006 under Bush, and guess what, the same people who are in favor of it now, all voted against it then.

Thats right, Obama as Senator voted against raising the debt ceiling and every Republican, with the exception of 3, voted in favor of it. Politics as usual for the 2-headed, 1-party system.

www.govtrack.us...

The debt ceiling does not have to be raised, nor does there need to be a "default". The debt addicts in Washington, DC simply need to cut spending, but they refuse to do it.

No one is willing to cut the titanic domestic programs nor are they willing to downsize the enormous global military empire. Instead, the American citizens/victims will suffer in the form of inflation and higher taxes resulting in a near worthless currency which has already lost 95% of its buying power since the creation of the "Federal Reserve".



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by Advantage
 


Unfortunately you observations are right and go right to the people. I like you have involved my self in our system and am disgusted with what I have found. What compounds it in an even more disturbing way is the total lack concern or interest from the citizens and the media. I discovered something on my Congressman and had to practically do cartwheels while eating soup to get anyone to listen. It came down to my now off the air Public Access TV channel getting the information out there for me. Then about two weeks later my local paper started to run articles on it and eventually to some of the MSM. But is didn't make a difference they still voted him back in even after assaulting a reporter. So what we need to do is blame the people who vote them in. The people think it's acceptable for the hired help to do because "they all do it". The excuse just doesn't cut it any longer it has destroyed our country. But back to the OP. I worked with a housing agency in 2007 and was unpleasantly surprised by the stupidity of the people. I do not mean the people I was there to help. The agency administration, the banks and the supposed professionals. From experience I can tell you they don't like to hear the truth. Yep, I was the guy who had the sack to ask two of the national banks reps. the tough ones. Like, why they were there talking to me and not in the schools teaching what some know as financial fitness. But knowing to never ask such question without knowing the answer I answered for them. They don't want to, they can't. If they did they would have financially educated customers and citizens. If that happened they would have so many revenue streams dry up they couldn't survive. You would also then have a group of people who would have asked like I did why their company was hedging their real estate holdings. This was before the collapse. So to sum it up I wasn't the popular guy. I don't see anything changing for a while. We are surrounded by idiots. We must have an educated people NOTHING will change until then. I tried but was black balled by those who say they are there to help.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 08:35 AM
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Why are we not allowed to make polls?
edit on 30-7-2011 by wavemaker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by morder1
 


There needs to be a link to real time results.

Where are the results anyway?



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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great thread s+f we need more!

tho these polls have flaws.

question 1. should be, do you want to see default happen yes or no? done, adding in a reason thats an assumption (political change may finally happen?) how loaded is that? will allowing default cause political change yes or no, sperate question. we need one question questions is my point. maybe people want to see default occur for other reasons.

question 4. revenue/taxes should be seperated. personaly id like to see increased revenue and lower taxes so how do i answer how much i like raising revenue/taxes when im for one and not the other?

anyway just my 2 cents. we need more polls like this!



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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The American debt crisis will not be over WHEN THEY SIGN for the debt ceiling increase - give it about 6 months, and they will need more cash.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Although many on ATS may not be from the United States Of America but I can assure you what goes on in this country financially will some how effect the rest of the world's economies. What is going on in the U.S. with the debt is absolutely insanity do you realize that the threat of Social Security checks not going out is theft of our retirement funds that were not suppose to be touched other than for Social Security recipients. The President has the option to still send out the Social Security checks if the Debt Ceiling is not raised and this is purely scare tactics on his part. Who has run up the highest deficite in History in the shortest amount of time this administration period. You can blame Bush only so long and yes he ran up a significant debt which is now shown to be disasterous with both the debts of both administrations combined.

We are at a point in this country's history that it is called sink or swim. Senator Marco Rubio explained it better than anyone in Congress on the Senate floor. Rubio challenges President obama and Senate Democrats on "Cut, Cap and Balance". Take time to view and listen to this incredible speech for if we do not take time now when? Congress and the President may have already ran out of time to help fix our country's debt for our future and the future of our children and many generations to come. One question that everyone I know has been asking Mr. President where is your debt relief plan? Mr. President you have had over two years to put together a plan again where is your plan please help our country out in this time of need. ^Y^
www.youtube.com...

edit on 30-7-2011 by amari because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 



Im disgusted by the bias of the OP, with that picture. "Deny Ignorance"? Oh please, this site has become a hypocritical, ignorant site. The motto should be changed for "Accept our ignorance or else."



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by jeffsmathers
A quote from a good source .... The man himself.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

-- Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006


OH So this problem wasn't caused by him, but by Bush, A REPUBLICAN!
Oh the world we live in.




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