Dear Brother's and Sister's in Christ!

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You wrote:

["Umm, a "false teacher" doesn't necessarily mean they are Christian. In fact, in this passage's context they would not be Christians if they were "denying" Christ."]

'Christian' defined how?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You wrote:

["Umm, a "false teacher" doesn't necessarily mean they are Christian. In fact, in this passage's context they would not be Christians if they were "denying" Christ."]

'Christian' defined how?

Let me put it this way..

I deny both Muhammad and Allah, does that make me Islamic?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


You wrote:

["AND???? In a Religion, Faith, and Theology forum Christians, Muslims, Catholics or whatever may enjoy having a discussion of Faith and or Theology. Sometimes, (I mean this is quite rare), sometimes we enjoy delving a bit deeper into our faith with like-minded individuals. Sometimes, (same qualifier), sometimes we like to move past the "God exists", "Nuu uh, prove it" discussions.

Sometimes."]

I can understand, sympathize and respect that. But then why choose a public forum, known for questioning and critical attitudes?

You could

a/ Start here for making contacts, and later move to a sheltered, undisturbed place, leaving an 'address' after you here, if a broad-spectered (including criticism) debate is interfering.

b/ Start from such a place.

c/ Urge ATS to create a special (e.g.: 'Preacher's corner' or similar), where censorship and/or exclusivity to some extent would be accepted.

Don't you think, that I find pseudo-science/pseudo-logic tiresome and could do well without it. But I don't whine or feel 'persecuted', when I have a ton of it sent my way. Neither do I appeal to moderators, as some theists do on the slightest occasion. I know and accept, what I have involved myself in.

PS Would it be OK with you, if answers are gathered in one post?: Criss-crossing posts are a nuisance.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword

 

You're saying, "he didn't have to die. He could have gone straight to heaven." Prove it! I don't believe you. Nobody gets out of here alive. Not even Jesus.

According to the Bible, is what I meant. I don't think there is a scientific proof. If people wonder about Jesus, they would know about that person, Jesus from the Bible. If someone believed there was an actual man as described, it would be because of a certain confidence that this book was not just a fabricated hoax but a compilation of writings by men throughout history, writing what they believed to be accurate and true. Besides Jesus, there are many other characters in the Bible, an early one was Enoch who lived before the flood. It was said of him that he walked with the Lord, indicating a life of holiness, and then was gone and no one could find him, with the inference that God had taken him up.
Elijah the prophet boldly confronted the reigning monarchs of his country at great personal risk, to bring righteousness to his country. At the end of his ministry, he was taken up to heaven by a fiery chariot in the sky.
Jesus lived a holy life and also confronted the leaders of his nation to bring righteousness to it. So, logically, he was doubly a candidate for being taken up alive and being saved from death.
Jesus chose himself to stay long enough, at the end of his ministry, to purify himself. An example of this concept in action would be Moses, who though he worked mightily for God, ended up sinning against the representation of god at that time, which in this particular case was a rock. Moses was allowed to die, but in some way, his death nullified a certain defilement within his personality that was a result of that failure of faith.
Jesus through his suffering at the end of his life, starting with his emotional suffering and sweating blood shortly before his arrest, and then a few hours later, scourging and the crown of thorns, be was baptized in his own blood, the blood of the lamb, so to speak, which cleansed and purified him from every defilement accumulated though being on this sinful earth. Included was the sins of the world which he destroyed in his body at the moment of death. He had prepared himself to go up to heaven but this time not just to be alive, but to fill the spot or role and position that awaited his arrival in heaven to be lord over all that will come to him to be purified themselves in this blood already shown to be effective for doing away with sins.

edit on 31-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for that respectful and very well thought out post. I have no problem with your logic of belief. I just have other than religious feeling about the truth of the Bible. There are many mysterious stories in the Old Testament. But so much superferlous hatred and bigotry, that I have to reject God as being the author.

Peace out.

reply to post by windword

. . .There are many mysterious stories in the Old Testament. But so much superferlous hatred and bigotry, that I have to reject God as being the author.

Probably the only thing about the OT that Jesus was into was the prophets, and then, just a small percentage of that.

reply to post by bogomil

I can understand, sympathize and respect that. But then why choose a public forum, known for questioning and critical attitudes?

Maybe some of us also come here to get news and information that we never would get on the network news? There is more here at ATS than just the Religion forum.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by windword

 

You're saying, "he didn't have to die. He could have gone straight to heaven." Prove it! I don't believe you. Nobody gets out of here alive. Not even Jesus.

According to the Bible, is what I meant. I don't think there is a scientific proof. If people wonder about Jesus, they would know about that person, Jesus from the Bible. If someone believed there was an actual man as described, it would be because of a certain confidence that this book was not just a fabricated hoax but a compilation of writings by men throughout history, writing what they believed to be accurate and true. Besides Jesus, there are many other characters in the Bible, an early one was Enoch who lived before the flood. It was said of him that he walked with the Lord, indicating a life of holiness, and then was gone and no one could find him, with the inference that God had taken him up.
Elijah the prophet boldly confronted the reigning monarchs of his country at great personal risk, to bring righteousness to his country. At the end of his ministry, he was taken up to heaven by a fiery chariot in the sky.
Jesus lived a holy life and also confronted the leaders of his nation to bring righteousness to it. So, logically, he was doubly a candidate for being taken up alive and being saved from death.
Jesus chose himself to stay long enough, at the end of his ministry, to purify himself. An example of this concept in action would be Moses, who though he worked mightily for God, ended up sinning against the representation of god at that time, which in this particular case was a rock. Moses was allowed to die, but in some way, his death nullified a certain defilement within his personality that was a result of that failure of faith.
Jesus through his suffering at the end of his life, starting with his emotional suffering and sweating blood shortly before his arrest, and then a few hours later, scourging and the crown of thorns, be was baptized in his own blood, the blood of the lamb, so to speak, which cleansed and purified him from every defilement accumulated though being on this sinful earth. Included was the sins of the world which he destroyed in his body at the moment of death. He had prepared himself to go up to heaven but this time not just to be alive, but to fill the spot or role and position that awaited his arrival in heaven to be lord over all that will come to him to be purified themselves in this blood already shown to be effective for doing away with sins.

edit on 31-7-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Thank you for that respectful and very well thought out post. I have no problem with your logic of belief. I just have other than religious feeling about the truth of the Bible. There are many mysterious stories in the Old Testament. But so much superferlous hatred and bigotry, that I have to reject God as being the author.

Peace out.

I always suggest reading the words Jesus spoke. He spoke the words of God, and didn't have a hateful bone in his body--if you'd read the words he spoke. He makes much sense; a very wise man.

Originally posted by Cor Leonis
"Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you. We know that we have passed from death unto life..." I John 3:13

"If the world hate you, you know that it hated me (Yeshua,Jesus) before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I (Yeshua, Jesus) have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." John 15:18,19

Before you get this letter in your hand my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, the world that hates you may intercept and begin spewing hate. Do not concern yourself. Who knows, maybe some who hate now may love later. All we can do as Ministers of Reconciliation, is continue to plant and water seed. It is God who gives the increase.

We know that we are just passing through and for loves sake we hope to win some for Christ.

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: (creation) old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation..." 2 Corinthians 5:17,18

"Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ stead, be you reconciled to God. For he hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." 2 Corinthians 5:20,21

Now, dear brother and sister in Christ, God knows we do blow it many times as we stand as Ambassador's for Christ. Daily we must rely on God's mercy and grace. And, while we are relying on mercy and grace we must continue looking up, for that is where our home is, is with our Lord Jesus Christ, The Son of God.

We know that soon we will be caught up to meet the Lord and the majority of mankind will be left behind. I am guessing there must be more souls to win for Christ before the end of this present age. However, it is fast approaching so let's continue reaching out for the lost by and for loves sake.

But, remember the world hates you. It is only that they do not understand. Remember as well, we too were once lost but are now saved. Remember about Saul who God renamed Paul who was very intent in capturing and consenting unto the death of every Christian they could find. Remember God through Christ saved him.

God's richest blessing's to you and yours! A brother in Christ

Thank you!!!

The hate is getting worse by the way...

hang in there...

reply to post by Hydroman


If the Koran is true all I can say is I follow Jesus....Muhammad adored Jesus and Abraham..... so....I have an "in" Im sure.

I really do not see how anyone cannot put all the pieces to this puzzle together and realize what an awesome puzzle it really is. From our DNA....The Universe....The make up of our "Systematic Body/Cells. Its all related beautifully and if you search hard enough you will find Truth.

It is a choice we all make individually. Its a HUGE one....

lets all study more!


PEACE AND LOVE TO YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oxoxoxox


Jenn

reply to post by Partygirl


Thanks Partgirl!

Keep Looking up!

Jesus said, "I will never leave you or forsake you!"

reply to post by Cor Leonis


Sorry for the mis-spell "Partygirl"