Cataracts, hips, knees and tonsils: NHS begins rationing operations

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Funny how the same people who cry about non-existent so-called, 'death panels' have no apparent problem with people currently unable to receive ANY kind of health insurance, itself an actual, default 'death panel'.

No argument of your own, so now you're resorting to making them up.

I don't know of anyone - including myself - that has said they have no problem with people not being able to obtain health insurance.

What we've said - pay attention now - is that we don't think government intervention is the answer - unless it is to pass legislation that removes the impediments to cheaper healthcare in the free market.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by centurion1211


And aren't you straying from your own OP's subject - people losing routine healthcare procedures due to the government basically deciding the people weren't worth it? Maybe not "death panels" in this case, but I guess you could still call them "quality of life panels" ...

Did you even read the article? The only services being cut are unnecessary and cosmetic surgeries, which is fiscally conservative. You should be APPLAUDING these cuts that save the taxpayer money.

Your desperate attempt to conflate this with non-existent 'death panels' makes your claims comical.

More

's for you ...

Did you not understand the concept that if the government - any government - had not decided to insert itself into the healthcare business, having these kinds of procedures would be solely the choice of the individual and their responsibility to pay for.

Yes, people who can afford health care can pay for it themselves. And what about those who CANT afford it? You pretend to care so much about people's well being, how do you deal with tens of millions unable to afford insurance, and the ACTUAL cost of that on the taxpayer?

Oh, and nice use of the word "conflate". Must have been on this week's vocabulary list.

Always glad to help a high-schooler learn a new word!

reply to post by centurion1211

Actually, what you've done is latch on to an article that illustrates reasonable cuts to a wasteful system (cosmetic surgeries, etc) and try and claim it is evidence of 'death panels'.

Obviously you STILL havent read the article you are commenting on, and are merely trying to rehash the Insurance Industries arguments against moderate health care reform, a threat to their monopoly on care.

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by centurion1211


And aren't you straying from your own OP's subject - people losing routine healthcare procedures due to the government basically deciding the people weren't worth it? Maybe not "death panels" in this case, but I guess you could still call them "quality of life panels" ...

Did you even read the article? The only services being cut are unnecessary and cosmetic surgeries, which is fiscally conservative. You should be APPLAUDING these cuts that save the taxpayer money.

Your desperate attempt to conflate this with non-existent 'death panels' makes your claims comical.

More

's for you ...

Did you not understand the concept that if the government - any government - had not decided to insert itself into the healthcare business, having these kinds of procedures would be solely the choice of the individual and their responsibility to pay for.

Yes, people who can afford health care can pay for it themselves. And what about those who CANT afford it? You pretend to care so much about people's well being, how do you deal with tens of millions unable to afford insurance, and the ACTUAL cost of that on the taxpayer?

Please read the previous posts for content this time.

Oh, and nice use of the word "conflate". Must have been on this week's vocabulary list.

Always glad to help a high-schooler learn a new word!

Please read the previous posts for content this time.

And pssst, generally adults do not resort to insults when they fail to prove their point. Someday you'll understand that, as well ...

And your avatar says you're a "disinformation agent". You obviously must be new at that, too.

reply to post by centurion1211


Nobody is throwing absurdly expensive treatments at a cancer patient with roughly a year to live out of fear of being sued. They are doing it to prove the efficacy of the treatment protocols to make them mainstream and thus mandated protocols.

Back to my earlier post. Who do you think paid for the $600K in treatment my friend received in the last months of his life? He was on a 100% company provided health insurance and he paid nothing. Who paid? The company. Who ultimately pays? Everyone who's company raises the rates to receive company subsidized care or drops those plans all together. Those in the individual market who see their premiums go up 15%/year or have difficulty in obtaining insurance at all.

Everyone pays. For what? So some gent can sit in a hospital bed with a diaper on with a feeding tube down his throat? No. We pay so that the medical industry can chalk up another couple of months of life and tack it onto the statistics of the procedures to bolster their marketing and sales efforts for those same procedures. Thats why we pay.

Originally posted by centurion1211


And pssst, generally adults do not resort to insults when they fail to prove their point. Someday you'll understand that, as well ...

psssst-whining about 'personal attacks' while engaging in them yourself is a petty way to avoid the bulk of a substantive argument. Grow a sack.

I notice you still havent read the article which highlights cuts to wasteful spending.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Nobody is throwing absurdly expensive treatments at a cancer patient with roughly a year to live out of fear of being sued. They are doing it to prove the efficacy of the treatment protocols to make them mainstream and thus mandated protocols.

Back to my earlier post. Who do you think paid for the $600K in treatment my friend received in the last months of his life? He was on a 100% company provided health insurance and he paid nothing. Who paid? The company. Who ultimately pays? Everyone who's company raises the rates to receive company subsidized care or drops those plans all together. Those in the individual market who see their premiums go up 15%/year or have difficulty in obtaining insurance at all.

Everyone pays. For what? So some gent can sit in a hospital bed with a diaper on with a feeding tube down his throat? No. We pay so that the medical industry can chalk up another couple of months of life and tack it onto the statistics of the procedures to bolster their marketing and sales efforts for those same procedures. Thats why we pay.

My (repeated several times now) point is that your friend's treatment should not have cost $600K. And it should have been his choice on whether or not to receive it.

Did they somehow force him to take the treatments against his will?

I posted many of the reasons why it did.

Let's deal with those first, before deciding to just hand it all over to the government to "fix".

reply to post by dolphinfan


OP if you are in America, why does it bother you what happens to the British health care system, I can only suggest your using it as some form of propaganda against the perceived horrors of Obama Care. I dont see too many Brits making threads about the state of US health system. A system that spends twice the percentage of GDP on healthcare than the UK. The problem with private health care is you have to have the insurance companies involved, who have very little concern for your health and care more abut making a buck of your illness.

The NHS is certainly not perfect, very few things in life are, but I would not swap it for the current system you have in the US or the half baked Obamacare you have coming your way.

Originally posted by dolphinfan

And many have already shown that a government healthcare system would drive private healthcare out of business.

And so it wouldn't matter how rich you were, because there would be no other source of healthcare besides the government's.

that is just not true, in the UK there is private healthcare aswell as the NHS which people can choose to pay for if they wish, and if they do not then the NHS is there to give everybody free healthcare as is a human right imo not just a luxury that you can get if you can afford it.

Bupa, AXA PPP and pruhealth are 3 that autmoatically spring to mind where you can purchase private healthcare in the UK..

so yeah i think our system works pretty well tbh it is just not managed properly

Originally posted by gremlin2011
the NHS are a compleat joke they wont spend money on life saving drugs or ops but they will fund a mans sex change??


now thats the reason its going tits up its sick!

No, the government are a complete joke. The vast majority of people involved in the NHS are as unhappy as you are.

Of course the capitalists and yanks will go to school on the NHS, but that's the point. The government want people to hate Socialism and the great British NHS. Because if you hate it and view it as an enemy, they have justification to change it.

Thousands of British nurses(at least) and hundreds of British hospitals(at least) are losing their work and being bought out up and down the country. This is the work of the government, not the NHS. Maybe the very high-up of the NHS, at a stretch - The corrupted.

But yes, lets all complain about the evil NHS and how much money they're taking and how wasteful they are... See if you Socialist haters are happy 10 years down the line when the government has fired tens of thousands of born British nurses and replaces them with fresh off the boat South Africans and Eastern Europeans! When that happens you'll be the same Capitalist swine on the internet complaining that you can't get treatment from a white, blonde haired british person.

Socialist health care is marvelous. And all you Americans and American-worshipers can take a running jump.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Im not sure this is 'conspiracy news' , it just seems to me that the NHS are trying to make the best of an overburdened free health care system. Its not ideal but these are hard times.

edit on 28-7-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Well, it's not and never has been a "Free" system - that's a common misconception in the UK. It's paid for by British tax payers - always has been. The problem is anyone popping over to the UK from anywhere in the world can get it - and for free, as they don't pay UK taxes. Over the years this has nearly bankrupt the NHS. Why they don't simply hand out authorised medical cards to all eligible UK citizens to cut back on all this fraud, I'll never figure. The solutions are there - and many other countries successfully implement these kinds of systems. But for some unknown reason - the Brits never have...

Health Care [NHS] funding as well as Social Security funding should not be tax payer funded as is the case since Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan in the 1980's. We have to pay for these essential services through QE "Quantitative Easing". That means that the Federal Bank in the USA [Bank of England in the UK][Federal Bank of Europe in the EU][National Bank of your country] will print what so ever amount of "confetti" it takes to protect our human rights. That way the Social Security and the Health Care [NHS] will no longer be dependent upon revenues gathered from taxation. QE already pays the full cost of maintaining the huge military budget. Such QE also requires that the value of the currency not be devalued. Such QE also requires that the free market no longer be in control of prices. Such QE requires that prices be set by the government. Thus inflation will be controlled. Thus the economic recession and the austerity measures there of will be a thing of the past. Thus the genocide will be avoided. Money must be serving humanity not humanity serving money.

The law that I live by and which is holding us all bonded is called PRAECEPTAE CAELENIUM (tm). I did not read it in a book. You will not find it in any book. It was revealed to me by audio clairvoyance during the celebrations of the New Millennium in 2000. Summed up it basically means no sex and no drugs and no violence. (1) From eternity to eternity, infinity to infinity, there be the One Absolute. The One God there be no other God. Her names are many but she be the one true God. The one judge there be no other judge. (2) La Deus Nostra, Notre Dame, Our Lady, The Holy Spirit, the cause the maker Cosmica. (3) Angelic [celestial immortal] powers of truth and beauty and righteousness be sure to be loving Her Holiness Above with all your mind and with all your heart and with all your strength. (4) So as to be pleasing to Her Holiness Above therefore do not be serving the masculine. (5) Do not be and do not allow masculinity into positions of government. (6) Honour and respect the virgin pureness of the christae. (7) Honour and respect the Immaculate Conception [parthenogenesis] reproductive process of the christae. (8) Do not fornicate or adulterate or sodomize. (9) Do not bully or torture or murder. (10) Do not lie. (11) Do not steal. (12) Do not be covetous. (13) Do not be jealous. Copyright (c) NGL 2000.

AVE RAEGINA CAELINA LA DEUS NOSTRA CAELI LA VERA DEUS