The No-Kids-Allowed Movement is Spreading

To be completely honest it kind of irritates me, but I'm also incredibly understanding that other adults are not immune to child chatter and fits like I am. Though my kids are really well behaved, man sometimes they just have a horrible moment and it just so happens that you are in a public place where everyone can witness your child having an off moment. People also assume that a fussy child means the parent is not disciplining properly. This is not entirely true. A perfect example of this is one time when my first born was around two years old, my husband and I took him to a shop that sells a variety of entertainment items. My son wanted a toy that he already had at home, he did not realize the toy in the package was not his toy. When I explained to him that he had it at home and that was not his toy, he cried. When we realized we could not console him, my husband gave me the items to pay for and he picked up our son to take him outside to the car so he could calm him down away from other customers. As I got in line, a woman didn't realize that he was my son. She immediately started commenting on horrible parenting and unruly children, and that he needed his butt whipped. Truth is she just didn't know the circumstances. I'm not going to beat my child because he doesn't understand something. I will however refrain from taking my children to places that require quiet, because in my experience it is difficult for small children to remain completely quiet. It irritates me, I guess because I don't get babysitters for every single time I go out in public, I want my kids to learn how to behave in public. At the same time, its no big deal for me, I'd much rather take my kids to a kid friendly restaurant, where they'll have a pleasurable experience with other screaming raving mad undisciplined kids.

I just LOVE LOVE LOVE reading parenting advice given by self absorbed childless individuals who have no idea how to live in the fast moving, sometimes chaotic, world of parenthood.

My kids fly business class, stay in 5 star hotels and dine at high end restaurants. Kids will be kids, but they can be managed to behave in a way that does not diminish the experience of other patrons. That being said, any business that does not desire kids is OK with me, I spend a lot of money on the little devils, we'll spend it elsewhere.

I would just say, for all the childless that are just sooo offended by crying babies....get over yourself and have a little compassion. Parenting is not easy, and not all situations can be controlled.

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by fooks

 

what part of "no kids" do you want to argue with?

the "no kids" part.

It's awkward. Sure, there are certain places that are not designed for children. But planes? Aren't these business class travelers rich enough to afford a pair of headphones to block out the crying from their perfect worlds?

Seems extremely awkward to me.

Kids now, people who speak later, people who look a certain way, etc.

It's like we're going back in time.

Depends how you look at it. Way I see it most people aren't sentient. Humans as a species just have brief moments of sentiency, with some having longer moments of sentiency then others. It is 2011 but yet it is looking more and more like 1911. Same dance different song.

Seriously, look up what psychologist's and what America's Universities said in the 1910's about women and minorities and it is nearly identical to what is being said now about boy's/men in general.

1910's had white only buses/train cars and places of business; and in 2010's you have women only buses/train car's and places of business.

I think it has something to do with gravitational orbit or something. It seems like the same patterns over and over again. Just different actors and rationales.

reply to post by korathin


Imagine one hundred years ago; a child running amok in public or boo hoo-ing all over the store because they didn't get what they wanted. Would this behaviour be as tolerated then as it is today? A crowd of on lookers witnessing a spoiled child today would be annoyed, but much less in shock than in the past. I would actually be inclined to say that children have MORE rights now than ever before. In television programming, we used to have the idea that "father knows best," and in half a century (especially in the 90's) we became entertained, rather than revolted, by the notion that "child knows best." Anyone recall the Apple Jacks commercials of yesterday? "F-you, stupid adult! We eat what we like!"
We've all heard the phrase "children are to be seen and not heard," and "spare the rod, spoil the child." The modern American response to those ideas seems to be that if a child is not heard, his spirit is being broken or suppressed, and if the rod (spanking) is being excercised, then the child is a victim of abuse.
Working with the public for the last 10 years, this is simply what I have observed. I can't say how many times I have witnessed deliberate apathy being used by parents with unruly children as if it were a legitimate parenting tool; parents who appease their children with bribes to make them behave; parents who count to three and then fail to deliver a consequence; parents who choose talking on their blue tooth over supervising their children. I also resent having to get out of the way of, or walk around children who are either milling about, unaware of their surroundings, or treating a place of business as a playground, running between and around people's feet with wanton disregard. I walk away from these situations feeling that children, in their own small way, rule the roost.

As the graph posted earlier clearly pointed out, failure to discipline our offspring has facilitated a less than ideal society. Some businesses may be taking a step back in time by disallowing children, but its only a matter of cause and effect. I expect that when I see a disruptive child, it will be met with subdued parental opposition, and so do these business owners. It may be perceived as prejudice because all of the good children are lumped in to the same category as the bad ones. None the less, it is a reasonable expectation based on prior experience. Unfortunately, this action will not stem the tide of bad parenting, only dictate where people spend their money.

LibertyCrazy:

So you want everyone to feel bad for you because parenting is hard?

No.

You chose to breed.

reply to post by LibertyCrazy


I think it's great your kids behave - we aren't talking about your kids, then, when we complain about screaming kids. And honestly, most of us complaining ARE parents who have learned to adequately parent. The 1/2 of the parents who are clueless ruin things for everyone else. I can't believe you think it's only the childless people complaining. LOL!

This movement is a different idea and makes me think of something a parallel Earth would do. As long as their is a limit on what and where they are banning children. On the upside I can enjoy myself out in the world until I get a screaming monster of my own.

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by fooks

 

1910's had white only buses/train cars and places of business; and in 2010's you have women only buses/train car's and places of business.

Women only buses? where o_O

Originally posted by Violetshy
Though my kids are really well behaved, man sometimes they just have a horrible moment and it just so happens that you are in a public place where everyone can witness your child having an off moment.

Kids are going to have their moments - they are kids. I think the issue isn't so much that a kid misbehaves as it is that some parents are clueless in such situations. Most of us don't take issue with the occasional fit or rambunctious behavior in a toy/candy store or McDonalds - you have to expect that as they are kids' turf. What drives us nuts are the parents who take their kids out to eat at 7-8 at a nice restaurant and the kids all but tear the joint apart because they are bored, tired, or overly hungry (or just plain brats), and the parents just go right on eating their bread sticks and ignoring them.

Or...when they take young kids to late movies which are adult-themed - almost always using the excuse they can't afford a sitter. Ah, HELLO...Netflix! Or, when they take the kid shopping and he throws a fit and the parent either ignores the kid or desperately tries to reason with him - who reasons with a screaming baby? Rather than taking the kid out and forgetting about shopping that day, they just go right on ahead shopping and creating havoc throughout the entire store.

For example, my husband and I went hiking up Klingman's Dome (TN) the other day. When we got back down the mountain and were entering the parking lot, some bimbo looked up from her cell and spied her kids almost 1/10 mile away on top on this high, rocky ledge. She yelled to them, "Bobby I told you kids not to go up there" and then looked away, ignoring them, and texting again. "Don't" doesn't mean don't if you aren't going to enforce it.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
You mean I can't bring my screaming out of control kid who I refuse to discipline out to dinner in public?

How inconsiderate.

Nothing worse than having screaming child. Esp. going to the movies and having a child run and jump on the seats.

Ban them all I say.

Do you have any further information on how this is the start of movement of sorts? ANY additional evidence at all to back up your claims?

The way I see it is just a business decision, not a moral position. People fly first class to relax, be pampered, or just check out. How can you do that with a crying baby in the next seat? I don't see anyone complaining that new borns aren't allowed in spas, saunas, massage parlors, etc. You know, places people PAY to get away from that type of thing?

So again, how does this constitute a movement, and how is it spreading?

reply to post by mjfromga


While I do agree with some of your post, other parts I feel are quite ignorant. Anywhere you would have a reasonable expectation of solace I think you should expect parents to not bring their children, or leave if they get out of hand. Movies, up-scale restaurants, first class seats, etc. But a grocery store? That is just stretching it.

You really think they should just abandon their cart and leave if their kid acts up? If every parent left when that happened, they would all starve from never being able to make it to the checkout, and you wouldn't be able to navigate through the mass of abandoned carts. I would hope you couldn't really be that entitled.

I have read this entire thread and I feel like my head is going to melt. The reason I read the whole thing is because I wanted to know how everyone felt about the topic before I responded. I thought this was a thread about what people thought of businesses banning children not a thread about parenting skills and ideas and that seems to be what most people are talking about. I was going to post an opinion but not going to now in fear that I will either be called a child hater or a child coddler depending on which side I was going take. I thought this was suppose to be a forum where a person can express an idea or an opinion without being villified. It seems I was wrong.

Why shuld those of us who want to enjoy our meals or flights or what ever the case may be have to listin to your kids screaming and crying for no reason or throwing a fit because they dont get their way?? tell ya what people if you want to bring your kids to places like this how about u teach them some disciplin? spank that ass at home so you dont have to do it in public and that way you can bring them in public and they know how to act. Its all on the parents and how they act. In reply to the question i believe the no children rule shuld be modified heck why not go with the old approach they did with the smoking or non smoking, make a kids and no kids section that way everyone wins haha

What I find ironic are so many people who would complain that kids don't know how to socialize, yet are so eager to force kids indoors which will result in them socializing less.

I love children,But there is nothing worse then going out to dinner and there is a screaming kid in the restrant and im trying to eat and the parents do nothing to stop this kind of behavior after all we pay good money to come in and have a quiet dinner ..We don't go out to dinner much anymore its to expensive but when we do i enjoy a quiet dinner thats kid free..Take the kids to family friendly places to eat ..Maybe im just getting older and my tolerance level is about 0 ..
Peace ,sugarcookie1

this while thing makes me sick. hey we dont have to buy diapers so we got money to spend listen to me blah blah blah. i have no children i do treat my neighbors kids as my own. why do spoiled grown ups feel like they got rights to tell patrnts where they can take their kids. next they will ban kids from department stores and video arcades because it interferes with patrons. these people are the same whiny temper tantrum throwing turds i had the pleasure of dealing with the last forty years grow up you did the exact same crap we all put up with you its your turn to do the same welcome to human race deal with it,

I wouldn't dream of taking my children anywhere that wasn't family friendly, it's no biggie. My only problem are childless people who GO to those places, expect perfect uninterrupted peace & get all aggravated when they don't.
Please, we as parents don't want people looking down their noses at us because our toddler decided to have a quick fit of teething troubles or is suddenly a little tired and fed up.
They are not welcome where WE are if they have no understanding or tolerance of perfectly normal behavior.
What's worse - a small child having a moment or the intolerant ignorant adults across the room who think its their god given right to eat a burger like a monk?.

reply to post by Jessica6


I agree with you in many ways, including that parents really are the harshest critics of other peoples kids behaviour, but they don't often make it known. Those without kids often do and that's just from my personal experience.

But I have to stand by my statement that people without there own kids do not get what other parents do, simply because they cannot, they have not experienced it.

However it truly is up tot the parents to keep their children in order, I do mine and make sure I limit any inconvenience to those around me because I care about others personal time and space (a thought almost never recipricated by most people), and yes there are some absolutely horrible, don't give a dam parents out there; trust me I judge them as badly as you do, they produce the problem kids in society who know no limit to their behaviour and end up having problems later in life.

The only point I was trying to get across is "If you don't like it that is your right and due freedom, and I will do my best to make sure your life is not impeded by my children. But if you are just an @$$hole (most people are, deny ignorance) and just make passive aggresive coments on my kids, or act in any way hostile towards them, I'll rip your face off and stitch it on your @$$. No joke.
But I feel just about any CARING parent would do this.

PS: If someone tries to help me while my son is being unruly I graciously accept the help and let those who have given there time to help me know how much I appreciate their kindness. I also apologize publicly for any inconvenience I have caused people due to my sons "meltdowns." I believe in the "you respect my space, I respect yours" way of being.

But again, on planes even I have to say no, its just bad news all around.