A newfound 'right' for American workers

Something dawned on me tonight while reading a thread about food stamps on ATS. A reply to a member who was griping about the misuse of food stamps essentially said "You likely do not make enough money to have much in annual tax debt, so why do you care?" (heavily paraphrased) In the past, this sentiment has always ruffled me and, truth be told, that was because it has always been a pretty accurate argument. On the surface, people who don't pay much in annual income tax really don't have a whole lot aside from sour grapes syndrome to point towards in justification of complaints about folks who work the system.

Until recently. It struck me tonight like a ton of bricks. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are taken from EVERYONE'S paychecks and are never refunded, regardless of how little you make annually. In the past, these taxes were stated to be (and believed by the tax payers to be) directly and solely funding the specific social programs they were being taken out of paychecks in the name of. Rewind to two weeks ago. Obama dropped the bombshell that, as it stands right now, today, that money is a debt to the US (in other words, it's unfunded) and those checks are going to be part of any prioritization of payments that would be required should the debt ceiling not be raised. To me, this is a smoking gun that absolutely grants EVERY man and EVERY woman who has ever had a taxed paycheck in the USA the irrevocable right to complain about every misappropriation of federal monies. It means that for the past x-number of years, that set in stone amount deducted from every paycheck under the SSI & Medicare tag line has been filtered out to pay for such things as wars, food stamps, unemployment, bailouts, and God only knows what else.

What a debacle this stupid government has turned the nation's economic situation into.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Well, not to be argumentative, BUT

heheh always a but, huh?

Do you get a tax refund?

I know someone that lives alone, has 3 kids, and pays a fair amount of taxes, but when she files her tax return every year, not only does she get every penney back, she gets around a thousand more in her tax return than she pays the entire year. She also gets disability for one of her children, almost $500 a month, which she doesn't include in her income.

Just something to consider.

A lot of people pay taxes, but they neglect to deduct that return check from what they paid. This is where the claim comes from that about 50% of people don't pay taxes. Literally, they take it out, but they usually get it back, and then some, Especially families with kids and a house.

If you break even, and maybe pay a little bit, then yes, you have a point.

Then, you either have zero deuctions, or have had a mortgage for over 7 or 10 years, and no kids or other deductions.

That's called middle class.

"The trouble with socialism is that you soon run out of other people's money". -- Margaret Thatcher

Food stamps, free school lunches, subsidized housing, welfare, unemployment, tax returns, child tax credits, WIC....

It's official households are receiving more money out than they pay into the federal government. First time since the great depression. Despite what CNN tells you, the actual numbers don't lie.

US Households Getting More from Uncle Sam Than They Pay In

reply to post by eldard


How ironic of you to use phrases from one psycho woman and have an image of another psycho woman as your avatar. Irony is never lost around here...is it..

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Most people on food stamps will earn more in food credits in the first 6 months than they will pay in taxes, combined, entirely, for the year. It's one of the programs I am most against because it's such a blatant slap in the face to the hard working Middle class. While we literally struggle to feed our family, to put a nice dinner on the table, to provide .. our taxes go to feeding some fat slob and her brood of brats for free? The other issue with social programs like that is that they prop the system up on a crutch .. more people than ever are on food stamps, and that's only because the program is there to begin with. If you took the tens of billions out of the market instantly by cutting food stamps the sudden drop in consumers would force prices lower, thus the poor would be more likely to afford food? I can hardly stand paying at the grocery, it's damn expensive .. but I don't get support .. I'm in the middle class where I'm expected to be stretched to the breaking point so my poorer peers can live a life without responsibility?

Is that really the kind of country you want? Personally, I have no patriotic attachments to a nation of such ideologies .. it's a pathetic gimmick to buy the largest voting base and nothing more.

Originally posted by eldard
"The trouble with socialism is that you soon run out of other people's money". -- Margaret Thatcher

Well both that crazy B, and you, are misrepresenting what socialism is.

Socialism is not government handouts, socialism is an economic system and has nothing to do with government.

Socialism is the workers ownership of the means of production, which came about in direct opposition to the private ownership of the means of production, capitalism.

The left was split between supporters of the state, Marxists, Leninists, and those who apposed the state, Anarchists (Libertarians, Libertarian Socialists). But they were ALL socialists, they all supported an economic system that is worker cooperatively owned.

Bakunin is known as the farther of Anarchism...

We are convinced that freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality. Mikhail Bakunin

Socialism can not be government handouts, if there is no government.

In other countries it is correctly termed National Health Care (e.g. UK, NHS). Nationalism is government owned, not socialism. It is owned by the government on behalf of the nation.

The term socialism has been twisted in popular meaning in order to keep you from learning that it would be in your best interest, as apposed to capitalism that robs you of your true worth.

The part about Social Security that boils my blood is that it isn't available to be willed to an heir.

For example, I'm not married and I don't have any kids. If I died tomorrow, all the money I paid in to Social Security just sits there. I can't will it to my living parents or sister.

Think of all the single, childless people who die in the US every day. All that money they paid in and it can't even be put towards their funeral costs.

reply to post by ANOK

People are scared of socialism.

The Green Bay Packers are a socialist football enterprise!
Thinking of tea baggers heads exploding at that thought.

Yea the Packers who have sold out every home game since 1960 and have won more championships than any other pro football team! In fact they were so sucessful that the other NFL owners got together and banned anyone from ever forming another "community owned" team.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Is that really the kind of country you want? Personally, I have no patriotic attachments to a nation of such ideologies .. it's a pathetic gimmick to buy the largest voting base and nothing more.

Not in the least, and if you took away anything that remotely indicated I am pro-welfare, then please reread my post.

Throwing this one out there...

Yeah it sucks to be poor and have to take a hand if you try to work hard and it sucks to work hard and have to give something back to those who aren't willing work.

My question is, if we did not have these safety nets (welfare, food stamps, etc) what would we have? Some claim it would be the spark needed to motivate folks to "not be poor". Other claim it is not right to let others starve while you have the ability to help. I am somewhere in the middle I guess.

If we stopped all entitlements cold turkey today, what would the next few weeks look like? Pitchfork wielding mobs? Corpses in the streets? Throngs of beggars heading to look for work? Seriously, what would it look like?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
reply to post by ANOK

 

People are scared of socialism.

The Green Bay Packers are a socialist football enterprise!

Thinking of tea baggers heads exploding at that thought.

Yea the Packers who have sold out every home game since 1960 and have won more championships than any other pro football team! In fact they were so sucessful that the other NFL owners got together and banned anyone from ever forming another "community owned" team.

Interesting, I didn't know about that. Just proves the 'private owner' is an unnecessary middle man who simply exploits the labour of others.

Cooperatives, collectives, don't have to be non-profit though. The 'profit' simply goes to the workers, so they directly benefit from their labour.

People are scared of socialism because it's been so demonized for obvious reasons, it would take the power and control away that comes from private ownership and the hierarchy it creates. The people have been lied to about what socialism and capitalism is, but the truth is not hidden, the people are just kept too busy with the mundane everyday grind to find out the truth for themselves.

I made under 8000 in 2008, and that meant i had no tax liability. What did the IRS do? They came to me in 2010, and told me I had to pay them exactly the refund they gave me in 2008.

F*ck That!!!!!!!!!!

Whores!!!!!!!

Tax the people, and give free reign to business shipping my job overseas, and letting them have an hq in america tax free.

Time to take to the streets.

Come get me.

Hey btw don't forget this...



Yes she is still hated that much for what she did to the working class in Britain.

The real problem, is that we've been robbed. All the bail-out money went to the banksters. They make money when the economy goes up in interest, and when it goes down in cheap foreclosures. FIRE THE FED. They LOAN us money (and earn interest) that we use to pay our bills. That's why we have a national debt. The Fed is a PRIVATE bank, a for profit bank. No one knows who owns the Fed. Look into fractional reserves. Banks can loan 10 times their deposits. Is it any wonder we're in this mess????

I believe in having social safety nets. I don't want to see sick people in the streets, hungry children eyeing my kids lunch at school, families living under bridges. I believe we should take care of one another. It's hard now that we have no more money, I know, but now is when it matters.

I have schizophrenia without social programs you wouldn't want me in your nieghborhood. Not only am I dangerous without my medications (thanks to medicade/medicare). I wouldn't think twice about not snatching a cookie out of your kids hand if I were hungry enough (thanks to foodstamps). I can't function in society but at least social programs give me a better quality of life. You take that from me and I wouldn't think twice at taking from you. I might be crazy but thanks to the republicans I can still own a gun.

reply to post by ABNARTY


The ultimate objective of course is to have not gotten to this point to begin with? Since the Great Depression it's been a cascading disaster of entitlement.

There will be poor people. There always will be poor people. Unless you wish to see a political structure put into place where everyone is poor (Communism) there would still be an Oligarchy.

Just because someone's poor DOESN'T mean they neither need nor deserve a handout .. let the Churches, the community centers, the private individuals care for them. Not Government. If we took entitlement away from the masses today the only thing that'd happen is they would vote for the next guy that offered them coupons for a big mac. These are people that can't get off their asses to care for their own children, I hardly expect them to raise a din in the streets.

It's the Middle Class that should be rioting, we should be storming governmetn buildings, demanding resignations and calling for a total restructuring of our government. But no .. we are far to affraid of keeping the status quo for our families to risk turbulance.

reply to post by wantsome


....yeah .. we can make a special place for you...

reply to post by Zamini


They are not psychos, silly! They are simply brilliant, albeit apathetic, Zionist Reptilian women.

reply to post by ANOK


You are talking about Detroit's Big 3!!! These overcharging, union fatasses, err, employee controlled companies almost died because money that was better spent on R&D, and hedging against downturns, takeovers, debt repayments, and for future acquisitions and luring of brilliant engineering talent, went instead to workers being paid $55 an hour for simple repetitive movements (ie, wages that are not commensurate with their skill level.). Long live the workers of the world!!!