It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ignorance being rewarded, (bear attack in Alaska)...

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 07:04 PM
link   
There’s been a great deal of news as of late concerning teenagers being attacked in Alaska by a bear. Now, I lived in Alaska for five years, yes, it may have been a military base, however survival education in Alaska is a requirement on that base. Because Alaska is a dangerous place to live. It has bears, Moose, wildcats, Dall sheep that climb on the mountains, whales and other fish they can bite you, mud flats, which a lot of people do not know about. There are a lot of dangerous things in Alaska point blank, including palin. Alaska in all of its glory is one of the most beautiful states. If you have an opportunity to visit.

If you plan on being out in the tundra you are required, last I knew, to take a survival class. Yes, theses kids had instructors, however, their education of Alaska is far from the education I received on how to stay alive in Alaska from the United States military, an Alaskan survival guide, not to mention the Alaskan natives that live there. There are a few rules of conduct through the seasons in Alaska. I suppose you had-have to live there to understand, that is not a diss, The one specific thing that I really remember my guides telling me to do if the bear came after me. Stop, Drop, and Play Dead.

My ex-husband, who grew up in Maine, where bears are quite popular. They are important as well, the bears that is. I grew up in Colorado, guess what, we have bears as well. I have never been taught anything different with bears, if you are unarmed, to stop, drop and play dead. I was also taught to pay attention to my surroundings, especially in Alaska. Because a mother moose can do as much damage to you as a Kodiak bear. Let’s not mention rutting season when animals are more aggressive and you have to deal with the male species of the animals. I grew up in a family of hunters my ex-husband has a family of hunters, my son hunt my daughter hunts. ( there is nothing wrong with hunting. As long as you eat the meat and are not wasting the animal. Trophy hunters get a grip. Your diminishing our food supply.)

There is a reason why I just put that paragraph up, when I arrived in Alaska in the middle of January 2002, I was required, might have been because it was military, to take survival classes. It didn’t matter where I came from, it didn’t matter my husband at the time was from Maine. What mattered was where to go, what to do in an emergency, and how to survive if attacked by any animal in Alaska. You are not talking about docile animals. Okay, maybe the sheep were docile I still wouldn’t test it. The people there are very hard-core as far as being for better words, a true mountain person. Homesteading living off the land eating the food to catch and the list goes on. For the most part in Alaska, they are going tell you what you should and should not do to survive.

I was told that the reason for this is because Alaska doesn’t want to clean up the foreigners who think that they could survive there. I’m sure that’s a bit extreme, that is what I was told though. After all the accidents in Alaska because of people not thinking not paying attention and ignoring what they’ve been told to do to survive. Why would they want to clean up from people who come from the outside? Because their state money will have to used. Why should they, the state of Alaska, have to pay for somebody being ignorant, when I know for a fact if these kids did have a ‘survival guide‘ they did not pay attention? That being said, please understand I have no issue with the state of Alaska at what they have done what I have an issue with is that for some reason these kids are heroes when they did not follow instructions. How do I know this, I lived there, I had I am sure, the same classes and same instruction as these ignorant people. In no way shape or form did they ever tell me to run away from a bear. As a matter of fact they told me the bear would attack more if I ran. You stop, drop and play dead.

First thing said about bear country and survival of such. Do not try to outrun the bear; he will catch up to you. Do not climb a tree; they will climb up the tree. Lay down and play dead., Yes, you might get a few scratches and yeah, he’s probably going to bite you, however, eventually he will get bored and move away. It Alaska you have a variety of bears. You have polar bears, Kodiak bears, brown bears, let’s not forget black bears as well. Then you have the people bears. They are completely different subject.

During the survival courses that you do take in Alaska, is usually who they bring in our people live in the tundra or Bush. If you want to call it that. They are the pioneers and survivors of that land. They are homesteaders, more than likely were raised and born there, and the conditions of living in Alaska, they’re crazy. You really have to pay attention to survive, sometimes you only get one time to survive. Therefore, you must pay attention to the instructions of survival that are given to you.

This `kids, as much as they said they listen to their instructors did not do so. In no way shape or form. They were walking as the sun was setting down and it was dusk. You don’t do that, not there. They did not pay attention to their surroundings because they would have seen the cub and the mother. There is no way that if they spotted the cub that they did not know that mother was around. There are special rules for mother and child of animals. The special rule is do not ever get between a mother and a baby in the wild. No matter what animal it is because you will be attacked due to your own ignorance. The animal is defending its young. Guess what, the animal will win. Go ask a hunter about stepping between a baby and momma, it is not a pretty site when it happens. Anyone who lives in the woods will more than likely agree with me. They also were trying to cross a river at dusk. Believe me right now. It’s not dark and light. it’s dusk.

They panicked, all of them and now are lying and being rewarded for the lies. They did not stay together as a group. And of course the last thing, the ignoramus ran. Of coarse the bear is going to chase after him and the others. It is now a game and protecting her young. Are you going to try to reason with the bear? Are you going to say okay were not playing a game? *to the bear that is* if this is a case you better bring a salmon because the bears are not going to be happy if you don’t.

Yes, these kids, according to them ”did and everything they were told to do“. Anyone who has lived in Alaska, or currently lives there knows this is not true. They were smart aleck kids from other states who had no clue how to live and survive in such terrain as Alaska and they were/are too arrogant, high and mighty, and stuck on themselves to accept that fact.

This is why you don’t give ignorant people gun licenses because you have people like this who state, “They listened to every thing they were told” I understand this is going to be a very long rant of frustration. The reality is that someone has to question the validity that we are going to reward ignorance by giving them things to encourage their stupidity. The kid from New York, got home today, tomorrow he’s getting some sort of key to the city or something. Are you for real, you’re going to reward stupidity? Give me a break.

]Bear survival[/url]
artofmanliness.com...


How to Survive A Grizzly Attack
1. Carry bear pepper spray. Experts recommend that hikers in bear country carry with them bear pepper spray. UDAP bear pepper spray is a highly concentrated capsaicin spray that creates a large cloud. This stuff will usually stop a bear in it’s tracks.
2. Don’t run. When you run, the bear thinks you’re prey and will continue chasing you, so stand your ground. And don’t think you can out run a bear. Bears are fast. They can reach speeds of 30 mph. Unless you’re an Olympic sprinter, don’t bother running.
3. Drop to the ground in the fetal position and cover the back of your neck with your hands. If you don’t have pepper spray or the bear continues to charge even after the spray, this is your next best defense. Hit the ground immediately and curl into the fetal position.
4. Play dead. Grizzlies will stop attacking when they feel there’s no longer a threat. If they think you’re dead, they won’t think you’re threatening. Once the bear is done tossing you around and leaves, continue to play dead. Grizzlies are known for waiting around to see if their victim will get back up

As far as I’m concerned, they could’ve stayed in Alaska, we have far too many here that are already ignorant. Now they’re going to be heroes, for not listening, for not following instructions, for thinking they knew better than the guides because it is obvious that they did not listen. Not to mention how much it cost Alaska as well. However much it cost to send someone, by air to get them back them out where they were, not to mention the hospital fees, and possibly what it costs for the reputations of their guides. Who I am absolutely positive, gave them the same instructions that I was given back at 2002

Who wins the Darwin award. This month…
www.reuters.com...

This group of kids, I generally don’t use the word kids for children, because a kid is a goat. In this case, they are kids. What’s funny, well not so much, as those of us who’ve lived in the Alaskan world know the truth, and that these kids are lying, in listening they didn’t pay attention to instructions, costing a great deal and creating a huge spectacle for the world to watch. Instant fame, how sad.

So in closing, I say bravo, ignorant beings, you have just proven that stupidity is rewarded, when in reality, they should be reprimanded and corrected for their actions of basic ignorance on the highest level. they should have to repay everything they cost the state of Alaska. Retake the course, then dropped in the middle of the tundra and left to their own survival skills to find Fairbanks or Anchorage.

I know that sounds really harsh, but in all reality, do we really want this to be our future of America? Do we really want to reward some Long Island spoiled brat who is absorbing the media attention at this moment in time, who lied along with his friends the truth of this attack. And whose fault it really was.

Bear one, ignoramus infamous.

I have already written the local msm news about their misreporting, however I am sure they will not respond and make the story work for them.

Thanks for hanging on to the post and reading...
Ainge
edit on 03/21/2011 by Ainge because: links did not work.




posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 03:33 AM
link   
reply to post by Ainge
 


Funny post OP .. people are generally pretty stupid around bears.. I recall 2 years ago in the Smokies hiking and coming across a gathering of people. A baby black bear was up a tree eating, tourist (mostly non-Americans) were holding their kids up to the tree and taking pictures..

Naturally I told them what idiots they were, but they didn't appear to understand me.. so I continued on my way and luckily ran into two rangers about 10 mins down the path who were watching the momma bear and another cub. They were less than pleased to hear what was going on.


What amazes me about your story is a bunch of 16-17 year olds were hiking in the middle of nowhere by themselves as part of a school outing lol.. Darwinism indeed.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 04:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ainge
There’s been a great deal of news as of late concerning teenagers being attacked in Alaska by a bear. Now, I lived in Alaska for five years, yes, it may have been a military base, however survival education in Alaska is a requirement on that base. Because Alaska is a dangerous place to live. It has bears, Moose, wildcats, Dall sheep that climb on the mountains, whales and other fish they can bite you, mud flats, which a lot of people do not know about. There are a lot of dangerous things in Alaska point blank, including palin


Error line 5: General partisan fault - code 0xCF532400. Access violation (brain not accessed.) Thread aborting.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 05:09 PM
link   
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Rockpuck,

Living in many mountian states with a lot of different wild animals I know exactly what you are talking about. People really think they are friendly. Sure they are friendly if they are foming at the mouth, the animals not the humans. At that point and time when you see foam anywhere near their mouths, we are supposed to back away and call animal control. Well unless of course you want all those shots in your stomach, then please approach the animal and take it home to your family to share.

I was in Alaska when "binky" (I am fairly sure her name) the polar bear had to be destroyed by the state because a tourist went past all the signs, 3 fences to keep idiots out so she could have a photo and then cried when "binky" went after her. That woman also ended up in the hospital, however this time the bear was destroyed. She was a rescue bear that they had in their zoo near Anchorage. I think it should have been the other way around personally or she should have had a trip home for free and never to step foot in Alaska again.

The only real reason I know about the attack is one of the Darwin award winners lives in Long Island. The news people were there to talk to him once he stepped foot in NY. I am completely disgusted that their bad behaivior will be rewarded.

Glad you got a chuckle out of the post. I knew someone would understand.

Thanks for the reply,
Ainge

(Sorry about typos or misspellings, did not pull up the wordpad.)



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 05:18 PM
link   
reply to post by Observer99
 


Observer99,

I feel I have read your things before on my post and you really never have anything nice to say or you make absolutly no sense. So how is that paycheck from BB treating you? Taken your MK Ultra lately to make sure you are still part of the disinfo gang? Lord knows it would be a sin for you to actually think on your own. Don't worry hunny, it's not a mistake, you are just a glitch in the Governments plan.



TextError line 5: General partisan fault - code 0xCF532400. Access violation (brain not accessed.) Thread aborting.


FreedomError: Observer99-code 1777130MK8U. Idiot violation(reasoning skills failed) AIO99 deleted from memory.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 05:25 PM
link   
reply to post by Ainge
 
Some people have no choice but to run. Survival instinct kicks in and your body takes control. But I get your point.



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 09:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Balkan
 


I know very well of those survival skills you are talking about. These kids had guides for 3 weeks, I am sure they were from Alaska(the guides) I promise you if that is the case, after 3 weeks of if you incounter a bear you stop, drop, and play dead, not to mention every thing else they did not to, or did that I know was not taught to them.
1. Traveling at dusk or dawn is always a bad idea because that is when they are out.
2. Making a great deal of noise in the bushy areas. (I always beat the bushes when I lived there and we went fishing,)
3. Have bear things ready when traveling in bear country.
4. If a bush moves and makes noise. Stop and pay attention to see if it is a rabbit or a moose.
5. Crossing a rushing river at dusk. Easy to die; stupid mistake on those rapids.
6. Running
7. Getting between a cub and momma. They should have had a scout looking for such since it is fishing and baby season in Alaska right now not just for bears, people and other animals there too.
8. Stop, drop and play dead.

There were 8 steps, they were stupid even after instruction.

Even doing 4 out of the 8 would have prevented this.

I do understand what you are saying and would agree if they had just been dropped and not instructed. You are instructed so you don't panic. There were practice drills, etc, etc. These guides did not just stop, drop the teens, and run. They were with them for 3 weeks to help.

Ainge



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 09:04 PM
link   
reply to post by Ainge
 
I respect your opinion, but I don't believe anyone really knows what they are going to do when the survival instinct kicks in, no matter how many weeks of training you've had. These were kids also. Bear starts mauling your friend, and the adrenaline kicks in, you may find yourself running no matter what's going thru your head. Just my opinion.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 05:39 AM
link   
reply to post by Balkan
 


Balkan,

I do understand completely what you are saying. The reality is they should have done the preventative measurements required before this even would be an issue. The noise making, (talking loudly basically), watching for the bears, not traveling at dusk. I was fortunate with how I was raised and the things I have survived through that my mindset is usually that of someone who scans and figures out how to fix it during and emergency. Most people are not that fortunate to have that walk to learn what to do in those situations. Case in point the blizzard here in NYC that shut Brooklyn down because people got out of their cars in whiteout conditions because their brownstone was only 2 blocks away. Leaving the car in the middle of the road for plows and emergency vehicles to move around all the cars left behind. They panicked and because of such, a few people died. I will say it was great entertainment for me those two days of news.

Alaska is fairly rugged land to be honest. Beautiful and deadly. It is used as Winter Survival for much of our Military men and women at Ft. Wainwright. I do honestly see your point. In all reality the chances of something like that are such as being hit by lightening or surviving a fire. So your point is very valid as well.

Thanks for your response and it is nice to see others can be nice and still stand their ground.

Ainge



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 05:45 AM
link   
Hey great thread. Star and a flag for you.
Teenage bear attack victims so seldom get the blame and scorn they truly deserve. You sir, are a special kind of hero.

Just curious but how did you survive your bear attack?



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 05:50 AM
link   
reply to post by Crapspackle
 

Crapspackle,

Thanks for the reply and I do agree with you about what said. Also, I did not have a bear attack ever thankfully, survived a few other things, the bears made me a bit nervous so I paid very good attention on how to survive, especially concering them.

I believe it sunk in when my ex and I went fishing in Willow Vally and I ran into an "old timer" there who had a loaded gun like nothing was wrong. I asked him if that was for the bears or the people.(It was king salmon season at the time._ He took one look at me and stated very clearly, "Both". We moved away from this guy simply because I did not wish to be near where he might shoot is someone tried to take his fish.

Thanks again.

Ainge



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 05:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Ainge
reply to post by Crapspackle
 

Crapspackle,

Thanks for the reply and I do agree with you about what said. Also, I did not have a bear attack ever thankfully, survived a few other things, the bears made me a bit nervous so I paid very good attention on how to survive, especially concering them.


Sorry, I was actually being sarcastic and that is exactly why. Seems that sitting safely behind your computer as the never have been victim of a bear attack seems like a great place to judge how a bunch of kids should have reacted to a real bear attack. Catch my drift?


I believe it sunk in when my ex and I went fishing in Willow Vally and I ran into an "old timer" there who had a loaded gun like nothing was wrong. I asked him if that was for the bears or the people.(It was king salmon season at the time._ He took one look at me and stated very clearly, "Both". We moved away from this guy simply because I did not wish to be near where he might shoot is someone tried to take his fish.

Thanks again.

Ainge


Well you sure as hell aint selling me on moving to Alaska, especially if you ran into my uncle like that. I just know what it is like to practice and prepare and rehearse for something truly aweful and then have reality completely flip the f***in' switch when that actual horrible event occured. It just seems a little ... I dunno ... just not that right to sit at your desk and criticize how these kids acted in the face of a bear attack.

I get it that they were in a dangerous place and should have been better prepared and all that but is your life really going so well for you right now that you had to really sit and think about why you blame these teens for getting attacked by a bear?

I really do not mean to offend or anything but perhaps had you been at least missing an arm from your attack, it might have a little more weight.



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 06:35 AM
link   
reply to post by Crapspackle
 

Crapspackle,

Well, if you had survived some of the things I have you would not be so quick to be so sarcastic and judgmental in your own way. I don't just sit behind a computer like most do. Pity you don't know that. I actually have a real life job that puts me in danger everyday thank you very much.

Since you won't even bother to visit Alaska, then you have no idea of the words you say and they carry no validity, since obviously you did not catch the full post.

Oh and the things that I have survived, my ability to remain calm, saved other lives as well. However, in my life I was prepared for such because of where and how I grew up, therefore, I had an advantage. Yes I was a teen, much younger and with less instruction when crap started happening. So perhaps you should do your research on the person you are trying to reprimand.

No wonder they are called the y generation, look at the people who are supposed to be their examples.

Ainge



posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 06:37 AM
link   
reply to post by Crapspackle
 


Also perhaps, your statement would carry more weight if you knew more about the preparation and precautions that are taken in Alaska to avoid this very thing.

I suppose children in the bush get a second chance as well when bitten by a nice snake as well right?

Ainge



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join