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51% of americans don't pay taxes - debunked?

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posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by kellynap43
reply to post by no time
 


Good article showing that people in poverty today, have it much better than the rich people of 100 years ago.
When you have cable tv , dvd, xbox, ac, all apliances, etc within in your home, aptc, condo, etc, I dont think your doing too bad. )


Ever hear of a pawn shops and thrift stores? How about the concept of gifts?

You think people don't have anything to complain about as long as they have material things? What do you think happens to a poor person living pay check to paycheck when their car brakes down? How about when their kid breaks their arm? What about when they get sick and miss a couple days of work and therefore have even less money to bring home?




posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 01:38 PM
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Reading all the responses to the OP one can discern that a few ATS members are completely awake and are no longer fooled by the Governmental Dog and Pony Show, however some of our brothers eyes are still closed to the true nature of the attack we are under.

Fair tax. The name alone should ring the alarm bell. We all should be aware by now that what ever name is placed on an agenda the results are completely the opposite.

The lie that “We can’t tax the Cooperation’s because they will just pass the tax to the consumer and by doing so it is just more tax on the little guy“.
What a load of brainwashing this is. I have heard this statement repeated over and over by the talking heads on the MSM to the point that everyday Americans now think that this is true.

Nothing can be further from the truth.

You also hear the lie that if we tax the cooperation’s they won’t have the money to hire workers creating jobs for Americans.

Just more brainwashing.

Cooperation’s must sell their product to a willing buyer. If the price is too high no one will be willing to buy, so prices must remain within a certain window for sales to be made. Taxes have no effect on this window in which sales are made, taxes only effect the profit of the cooperation, same as taxes remove the profit from your families budget. So instead of the profits of the cooperation going to pay bonus and perks they can go to pay the Federal Reserve, just like the money you pay out in taxes.

Cooperation’s only hire enough workers to get their product to market, no more and no less. Tax reduction does not effect how many workers are employed, productivity of the workers effect how many workers are employed.

Last, we should return to the days that cooperation’s were next to impossible to charter. At one time in this country a Cooperation had to be a Value to Society as a whole in order to get a Charter. Also the Charter would expire after the goal of the Society’s benefit was accomplished. Cooperation’s were temporary. Never was it intended that a Cooperation would be a permanent fixture in the American economy. There is no good reason to allow a for profit business to be immune to liability laws. In a sole proprietorship or a partnership the principles are accountable to society for their actions, however we allow the principles in a cooperation to be immune personally from liability, You see what this dumb action has given us.

So in closing, taxation designed effect on the citizen is to keep the citizen in a state of servitude.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by brokedown
 


Yes, in my business textbook I do remember reading a blip about how corporations were only allowed to exist for up to 30 years.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by Jezus
 




So we can allow them to play the "get rich" game as long we tax corporate profits enough to prevent the destruction of the environment and the enslavement of the masses....


Taxing BIG corporations is IMPOSSIBLE.

I really really wish people would get that fact though their heads. If the Feds were to place an addition tax on a business, the big corporations would just raise their prices. Therefore it is a tax on ALL consumers especially those on fixed incomes.


This is why you have to tax individual people directly after they get the profits.

But regardless, corporations already take action to make as much money as possible.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by DZAG Wright
 




...If you want things to change, begin organizing meetings and gatherings where people are taught and awakened to what's really happening. Start grabbing people by their shirts and shaking them awake. Explain it to them in laymans terms so it doesn't go over their heads. Let them know that 99% of the populace are in the permanent bent over position....


THAT is exactly what I have been doing for the last six years. I go to Flea Markets and Farmers Markets and hand out HAND PRINTED index cords with the info. Often I print it in front of the person. That way I am not see as someone hired to shove pamphlets at people, but as a concerned individual.

edit to add:

STAY away from RELIGION and stay away from politics. Stick to the Federal Reserve and their fraud.
edit on 28-7-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 




The TOP 400 EARNERS in our country have seen their wealth almost quadruple...


One has to be careful with Stats like that.

This NOT the 400 MOST wealthy families, because THE do not earn wages!

Second those are only the guys still in the USA.

By shipping raw materials/ partially finished goods over national borders with out the penalty of excise tax, Corporations can use "Creative Accounting" to shift the profit to the country with the least taxes. I worked for an International Corporation who did so. The plant never made a "Profit" during its entire existence! It never paid a dime in Federal or State tax.

Statistics (courtesy of Bridgewater) showed in 1990, before the World Trade Organization was ratified, Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. www.fame.org...

Whether you blame the leveraged buyout feeding frenzies of the 80's or the World Trade Organization “Free Trade” agreement of the 90's the result is the same America has been quietly sold off piece by piece. This is a sampling of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, according to Source Watch www.sourcewatch.org...


* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
* Coal mining – 48%




edit on 28-7-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by brokedown
 




The lie that “We can’t tax the Cooperation’s because they will just pass the tax to the consumer and by doing so it is just more tax on the little guy“.
What a load of brainwashing this is. I have heard this statement repeated over and over by the talking heads on the MSM to the point that everyday Americans now think that this is true.


This is correct for corporations who ONLY operate within the USA. - mainly small business.

It does not apply to the international cartels. ONLY excise tax (import duties) coupled with taxes will work for them.


This is how the international corporation I worked for avoided taxes by taking advantage of "open borders" and "Free Trade Agreements"

The raw material was mined and refined in another country. It was shipped to the USA where my factory paid double the going price for the material. On top of that all the administration offices and research labs were attached to the factory and added as factory "expenses"

With double the price for raw material AND all the overhead for the entire corporation there was no way we would ever "turn a profit" for that factory. But the CORPORATION made money hand over fist and paid no USA taxes.

This chart shows how excise (import tax) has become non-existent and Corporate tax has been reduced at the same time.

Lets get rid of the blasted "Free Trade Agreements"!!!




posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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reply to post by brokedown
 




Just more brainwashing.

Cooperation’s must sell their product to a willing buyer. If the price is too high no one will be willing to buy, so prices must remain within a certain window for sales to be made. Taxes have no effect on this window in which sales are made, taxes only effect the profit of the cooperation, same as taxes remove the profit from your families budget. So instead of the profits of the cooperation going to pay bonus and perks they can go to pay the Federal Reserve, just like the money you pay out in taxes.


Yes Brain washing but unfortunately it is YOU who is being brainwashed.

First let me say I have been a small business owner for close to twenty years and the first law of business is you are in business to make a profit.


If you are not in it to make a profit then it is a hobby or charity or idiocy not a business.

Second you are assuming a static picture. I have tripled my prices and as we speak we are putting together a business plan of how to raise the prices again without losing profit.

You assume that because there is a "price window" a business will "eat the tax increase." WRONG!

There are a number of strategies available. These are the ones I have seen used:

* A favorite of the food industry is to keep the package size and price the same and DECREASE the actually amount sold.

* Reformulate the product with cheaper ingredients and market it at a higher price as "New Improved"

* Re brand the product. Take "Evening at Walmart" and market it as "Chanel #5".

* The last recourse is to drop the "unprofitable product"


After looking at what can be done with the product you look at the business itself. In my case we decided to get rid of the business segment that called for additional employees. Therefore we "down sized" but increase our "profit" by targeting the type of business we can handle singlehanded.

If you do not believe that "profitability" governs business decisions read the first two articles. The last article (aMUST read) shows what is happening and will happen if we do not get it "RIGHT"

Research on Small Businesses
...80% of new businesses fail within their first year....

...Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts....





...Of mergers and acquisitions each costing $1 million or more, there were just 10 in 1970; in 1980, there were 94; in 1986, there were 346. A third of such deals in the 1980's were hostile. The 1980's also saw a wave of giant leveraged buyouts. Mergers, acquisitions and L.B.O.'s, which had accounted for less than 5 percent of the profits of Wall Street brokerage houses in 1978, ballooned into an estimated 50 percent of profits by 1988...

THROUGH ALL THIS, THE HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP between product and paper has been turned upside down. Investment bankers no longer think of themselves as working for the corporations with which they do business. These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers....

In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America....
THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's.

Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages.

January 29, 1989 New York Times


The LAST Alternative is to close the doors.


Every single factory I have worked in is now gone. It has been closed up and shipped south.


‘Whitewashed Windows and Vacant Stores’

As I drive around my town, I can’t get the lyrics or somber melody out of my head. It is like witnessing old friends drop dead one by one.

Last week I went into town to buy some guitar strings. Band Central Station, a friend of 30 years, was gone. In its place? Nothing. A halfhearted “for lease” sign hangs in the front window.

It was more than just a place to buy sheet music or a Bach LT36 Stradivarius Trombone, it was a musical hub where professional musicians, teachers, and students all came together, found each other, and furthered our local musical heritage. The Internet can’t replace that.

Peto’s Feed and Grain was way more than the name implied, also offering a large number of hard-to-find things for the home gardener. Put out of business by a misguided redevelopment plan that saw more potential revenue from a soulless, big box tilt-up. For a while, there was a Linens ‘n Things inside, now its empty hulk sits dark and foreboding with no future in sight.

And, it isn’t just small enterprises. We lost a Circuit City, a Chevrolet dealership, tried-and-true franchises like Dairy Queen and Arby’s. Last week Sam’s Club announced it will close its local big box bulk store. Then came news that Wal-Mart, the parent company, intends to lay off 10,000 Sam’s Club Employees. Even the ubiquitous 99 cent stores have been cut in half.

The story is the same in surrounding towns. Nor has the regional mall been spared. Until this past Christmas Eve, I hadn’t been to the mall in about two years. Wow! It looked more like a Gypsy Bazaar than a suburban mall....

So, the businesses that provided jobs are gone, the office and retail space sits vacant, likely in default. The windows get broken, the walls get tagged, the weeds grow, trash blows, and, with no one to stop it, nature begins the process of permanent destruction. The value of those businesses and real estate is now gone.

Each of these failed enterprises is a sad testament to the times we live in, but taken in their entirety, they foretell an even grimmer future. It will be a longtime before the jobs return....


I suggest you read the last article in it's entirety because the guy has a good grasp of what is actually happening.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 09:01 PM
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Well, those 51% aren't paying taxes for a reason.

A rising hunger among children
www.abovetopsecret.com...&flagit=733764

This is exactly why we need to be worrying about real physical variables.

Land, water, food, air, and natural resources.

Let "the rich" play with abstract concepts and nominal variables all they want.

If we take control of these issues it won't matter (as much) what they risk and leverage.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 10:30 PM
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One thing that doesn't seem clear on the whole tax large corporations deal. The taxes start out hurting investors in the pocketbook with dividends, then slowly turn into raising their prices to please investors. So this window theory holds true for a while, but eventually the corporation always finds a way to distribute inflation to the customer. If this didn't happen you would still be paying $.25 for a gallon of milk.

I saw a few people mention that taxing corporations will not hurt prices for staple items for the poor and elderly, and I find that is very untrue. Almost wholly inaccurate. Considering a very big staple, milk, gas has more than doubled in price in the last 6 years.

ROOT CAUSE - the federal government is not supposed to be this big, states need to be able to do their jobs. And until the federal reserve and their wall street counterparts are deemed TOO BIG TO EXIST by the american people, we will continue to try and "resolve" problems created out of stupidity.
edit on 28-7-2011 by no time because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


I usually do not respond to replies, however your rudeness has sparked me to do so.

Let me give you a piece of unsolicited advise. Never make anything you write on this site personal. It only makes you look foolish, rude, and close-minded.

I did take the time to read every word of your response and I am unable to glean out how you can draw a correlation between Small business failure, Cooperate Raiding, or Urban blight to the discussion that is taking place about Cooperate Taxation. None of the articles you referenced made any statement that would support a discussion of Cooperate Taxation. In the future please try to use supporting documents that actually support the point of the discussion.

I, like yourself have been a self employed small businessman since 1984. I understand the in’s and out’s of running a small business very well. I am very sorry to hear that your business is failing, I sincerely wish you Good Luck and large profits as you make the changes to meet tomorrows challenges.

But,

This still has nothing to do with Cooperate Taxation., and this is the focus of the discussion.

When I said that our citizens are brainwashed by the MSM. I stand by that remark.



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by crimvelvet
 


But our current economic model is not sustainable.

We are not only near current debt peak, our private sector debt is even worse. Our economy is literally running on fumes.

The bigger problem is that we can produce more than we can consume. It is strange indeed that when we have an economic downturn, we are not short on goods or services, but in fact over stocked on both. This is completely upside down from how markets are supposed to work. Excess supply should see a drop in price, but that did not happen. Essentially the law of supply and demand has been overwritten.



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by DZAG Wright
 


Hector is NOT just making $4,000!!!
even if he was, THAT IS WHERE THE business owners are getting their profits FROM.. without Hectors, the rich would have NO VEHICLE in which to exploit the americans WHO BUILT THIS COUNTRY!!!!

Some of what Hector REALLY GETS:
1. free healthcare for his kids
2. since Hector has 17 last names, his wife claims she is single, gets food stamps, sect 8 housing, college money
3. Hector causes construction wages to go from $35 hr - down to $20 hr-iiwhich ruins pay for Americans, WHOSE granpa's died bleeding and sweating, to give Americans a better life. NEWSFLASH!!! 'the Hectors' are making it so that all the grandpa's worked, fought, and died for NOTHING

4. Hectors kids, now go to american schools, overcrowding them and sabotaging the american childrens' education throught the financial DRAIN for things such as ESL expenses AND the teachers having to SPEAK REEEEEAAAALLY SLOW due to language Barrier!!!
5 Hector, then brings his mom/grandma here, since they are too old to work, they file 'unemployability' at SSI office and use fake documents to Suck off a monthly SSI check from US citizens, she gets a sect 8 subsidy, medicare, etc
6. Hector remittances money to mejico, which takes US money out of circulation...I.E. DEFICIT!!!
----get it yet?-----

in warfare strategy, and concepts even used by Americans to defeat enemies IN EVERY WAR.... When at times, you can not confront an enemy FACE TO FACE (example--elites, CEO's, business owners, 'the rich')-- you cut off their supply lines, TAKING AWAY THEIR AMMUNITION (the 'Hectors' are the ammo, guns, tools weapons, etc) with which to prevent them from RUINING the cities, towns, Industries,schools, Wages, etc of the avg guy..





posted on Jul, 30 2011 @ 10:25 AM
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reply to post by brokedown
 




....I did take the time to read every word of your response and I am unable to glean out how you can draw a correlation between Small business failure, Cooperate Raiding, or Urban blight to the discussion that is taking place about Cooperate Taxation. None of the articles you referenced made any statement that would support a discussion of Cooperate Taxation. In the future please try to use supporting documents that actually support the point of the discussion....


Sorry if I did not make it clear, and I apologize, but if we do not understand how corporations are AVOIDING tax and do something this country is a DEAD!

And yes I was most certainly talking about corporations taxes AND the reactions of corporations to the two different type of corporate taxation. You can not separate corporate taxation and the economy. I was trying to show the effect of removing tariffs, a type of corporate tax on the US economy. Cause and Effect.

I was also trying to explain how G.E. manages to pay no taxes AND what those methods mean to the US worker. To avoid high US corporate tax GE slashed their American workforce to fewer than 150,000, AND expanded its global presence, to 300,000 workers worldwide. They could do this because we no longer have the corporate tax called Tariffs that make off-shoring too expensive.


...The company [G.E. cv] reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States.

Its American tax bill? None.

In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion....

Its extraordinary success is based on an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore....

www.nytimes.com...


Back to trying to explain the slight of hand used by corporations to avoid tax and increase profit.

The first type of Corporate tax is the normal tax on a Corporate entity that ALWAYS gets passed off in some manner to the customer or employees. If a corporation can not pass on the tax by some method they lose profit. If they lose profit cuts are then made in product line, personnel, R&D... somewhere because at minimum they fire the CEO or if no profit is made they are taken over or they go out of business.


Is that clear??? If a Corporation does not make profit, a profit that can attract capital by paying decent dividends, then the corporation will react by some how finding a way to do so. Yes there is a "price window" but that is a very simple view of a complet matter.

Tariffs
A tariff is a tax on imported products. It is used to keep the prices of imported goods the same as or higher than domestic goods. (Protects jobs/small business from UNFAIR competition)


This is the KEY!

By convincing Congress/the President to ratify Free Trade agreements removing tariffs, the big corporations now pays absolutely no penalty for moving all or part of their operations off-shore to avoid corporate and other taxes while selling the product at the same price in the USA.


The sequence of events that Tanked the US economy.
1. Reagan Admin. allowed corporate raiding/leveraged buyouts. This stripped U.S. Corporations of their assets which were sold off to pay of the loans (leverage) used to buy controlling interest. This consolidated US business into a few mega corporations for each business sector.

2. Clinton signed five banking laws that set up the Housing bubble and crash. They also allowed the banking industry to be consolidated.

3. Clinton and Bush ratified "Free Trade Agreements" This killed most tariffs permanently and opened borders.

4. Under Clinton, Sperling as head of the National Economic Council, worked on China’s entry into the World Trade Organization.

5. America lost 20 percent of its manufacturing jobs in 14 years.

Think of the following chart this way. For every product imported into the USA, American factories did not produce that good. Therefore this chart not only shows the net amount of imported goods vs exported it shows exported jobs.

Also notice the acceleration starts in 1995 with the passage of the World Trade Organization and the removal of tariffs.


Zero is a balanced trade. Negative shows more trade good imported then exported.




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