Infinite universe?? Where will it all end.... so to speak.

reply to post by jonnywhite


See thepost for specific implications.... I tried to put it into laymans terms...

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly

It's inspiring. Ever wondered why some people aren't inspired by these developments?

Why is it thoughts of stars and alien biology is so enrapturing for some, while boring for others.

Infinite universe. That's a fun thought. But many just answer it simply by saying: God.

I'm not happy with that answer, I don't think you would be either. But why?

Is it because the grass needs to be mowed, and already having an answer means you can mow it? Sometimes questions are good to have, but what if the grass is unkempt, uh oh...

Maybe I'm just lazy. But I always think: Gosh, there's got to be something better than mowing grass. But until I have a better answer, all my response can be seen as is a stalling maneuver.

I think I might can offer a reasonable hypothesis on what exactly "God" is.

If you have time.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by PerfectAnomoly
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Ah, yes... the old "every atom is a universe" theory.... interesting.. but the models don't really coincide in my opinion.....

PA

Its more of a holographic universe theory actually, as you'll notice that in my dream you end up in the same place. And this makes about as much sense to me as travelling forever forwards in a straight line and ending up in the same place.

Although I am interested in why the 'every atom in a universe' theory does not in your opinion 'coincide'. To me some sort of morph between this and a holographic universe theory would seem answer your question regarding what our universe is expanding into quite neatly.

If every atom/quark/whatever were a universe, be it the same universe in some kind holographic array, or a different one in a massive 'bubbleverse', then it would be simple. The universe is expanding into a greater universe which itself is expanding into an even greater universe, and so on and so on. To put a new twist on an old phrase, "Its turtles all the way down". If some how you were to reach the 'edge' of the universe what would there be? You would see the void where electrons fly around the atom/universes nucleus, and across this void there would be another universe. Either the same universe as in my holographic theory, or maybe the alternate universe in which you had eggs for breakfast instead of marmalade on toast, depending on which theory you're more inclined towards.

Could you ever cross this boundary? No I wouldn't think so. I think somewhere you mentioned that essentially we are made up of energy/light, and therefore are bound to never travel faster than the speed of light. I would also assume that the universe is also expanding at the speed of light, therefore this 'edge' will always be expanding just beyond your grasp.

God...the Source the "Consciousness" is reflected within the universe and all things down to the particles that make up the atom!

There are reasons that the scientists can explain everything up to a point and beyond that point, the formulas, the science and the mathematics don't work..because, maybe...there are things beyond our comprehension. Something that we don't even have words or concepts for.

Originally posted by blazenresearcher
God...the Source the "Consciousness" is reflected within the universe and all things down to the particles that make up the atom!

There are reasons that the scientists can explain everything up to a point and beyond that point, the formulas, the science and the mathematics don't work..because, maybe...there are things beyond our comprehension. Something that we don't even have words or concepts for.

Ah.. I see.... you are clearly a "god of the gaps" type man...... not something I can support I'm afraid... it's just plain lazy...

We did not get where we are today by ignoring the complexities of the world around us and assuming we "are not worthy" of knowing these details.... imagine if Galeileo or Copernicus or Newton just said "Oh, what the hell, I can't explain it/understand it, so I'll just attribute it to god"..... we would know nothing we know today.... and would remain as ignorant as the day we were born..... EVERYTHING was once unknown..... remember that... with your philosophy we would never have evolved at all....

Just because we see something we cannot (yet) explain, does not prove the existance of god my friend.....

I think we will find that the science and mathematics do work the smaller you get.... we just haven't worked out how they work yet! We certainly haven't proved they don't work yet!

There was no technical "before" - as you can divide 1 by 2 and then divide 1/2 by 2 and so on and so fourth, zero will be approach, however, will never be reached - thus, there was no "beginning" of the big bang, although a zero point can be extrapolated from what we can observe.

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly

Very interesting, well done! S&F

Regarding the assumed arrow of time, we must also consider, however, that it is just that, an assumption.

The alternative view is that of type of holographic projection of the fully informed Record or what Irvin Laslo, another great mind in physics and systems theory (considered by many to be the greatest mind since Einstein) calls the Akashic Field or Zero Point Field. This universal collective "memory" if you will, resides as information (in formation), in eternity, or in the view of Bernard Haisch (another great mind) the "Godhead" or what might be considered the very apex of an eternal cosmic evolutionary process, not "just" in terms of where it's coming FROM but what it's both evolving into, and continually eminating out of, through the ever unfolding present, even now, and not merely as some sort of capricious addition to (nothing?), but instead, as an intelligent subtaction from, the Absolute.

In other words, the eternally unfolding present, sandwiched as it were between two eternities (hypothetical past and future) - simultanteously envelopes, and is eveloped by, the same first/last cause IN eternity already always, now AND forevermore, and so you then, and me, "we", as the "latest and greatest" expression of cosmic evolution, are that which fills the doughnut so to speak as evolved sentients who share the same emination as a first/last cause, that is, if consciousness, and not matter is taken to be primary and fundamental within the infinite realm of the unconditioned ground of all being and becoming. What really moves us then, from the domain of our own experience thus becomes tantamount and, however frightening and scary that may be, it is also both entirely satisfying, and exhilerating!

In my view this is the proper use of Occam's Razor, since any other use cuts ourselves apart from the real reality while slicing us and it into pieces at best and/or to a pointless and meaningless absurdity at worst. It's an Occam's Razor to shave by without cutting off our own nosse to spite our face, imho.

The arrow of time illusion needs to be broken long enough to recognize our true nature in the mirror of eternity, not as mere things, but as intrinsic to the entire non-local, cosmic evolutionary process. And after all, who can deny their own 'qualia' of their own experience of existence?!

So Smile! You're a chip off the old block.

As to your question where from?

Any discreet localized nothing, being nothing in particular, is and remains nothing at all. And since there is everything, and not nothing, then everything is everything already always now and forever. And so the real predicament we find ourselves in is that we already emersed in all that ever was, is, and will be, even now. How then could we ever look for an end if we cannot find the beginning? Surely it is best then, if there is no escape, that we place ourselves at the new beginning and again, as if for the first time, recognize that there is no beginning, and no end.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last."
~ The Reveletion of John

Edit: If anything, all indication is that it will "end" if there is to be any, in infinite complexification which by it's very nature is a never ending process, and again a process that we find ourselves already deeply immersed in.

Maybe this is IT. Then again, there is always something new in store since novelty is the very fount of all creation.

Perhaps...at some point "we" will need a fresh start, while pretending to forget everything we'be already learned all along the way, except that that's no longer generative of novelty and NEW creation.

Perhaps the purpose if there is one resides in the challenge of learning, without forgetting, and self remembrance without the narcissistic delusion of mistaking outer, first impressions or images, with the deeper reality already bottled up within us. Perhaps, when in search of universal or heavenly things, we need only consult our innermost being and discover the great truth which sets us free (from our subjective isolation chambers or self imposed prison cells).
I think what we're lacking these days is simply put, an open mind and heart, because if learning and learning love is the 'name of the game' and if "education" is discovering something already knowable, in potentia, then we are already in possession of the faculty for gnosis as felt experience, as opposed to idle speculation or mere intellectual curiosity.
And if what I've come to discover is true IS true, which it is, then it's pointless to talk of the universe as some sort of entity separate from one's self, even at the deepest level, because contained or imbedded at the deepest levels of our own mind/body spectrum, and spiritual experience resides a representation of the whole kit and caboodle.

One more comment.

For us, the human being, the new end and the new beginning will begin and end in our INvolution as our evolution aka self or God-realization, or the re-cognition of that part of us which is already eternal, timeless, spaceless, ageless.

The next boundary horizon beckoning us is in the realm or domain of INNERspace not outerspace because it is therein that we will re-discover our first/last cause, our origin, and our destiny.


"Have you not heard, have you not seen, have you not known since before the very foundation of the Earth?!"
~ John the Baptist
Yes, you're right John we have, and now at last we can understand better and better just what the heck you and your cousin were saying!

I don't know about the rest of you, but this whole materialist, arrow of of time conceptualization is really starting to wear thin and I think it's just not helpful anymore except as a convention for practical purposes in applied science, or, as a God-avoidance technique where "God" may be considered synonymous with Spirit and Truth.

Cant talk about the shape of the universe cause diffrent theories got diffrent answers ballshaped, donutshaped, flat, parabolic...I dont have alot to say about that.
You talk about infinity like its just that infinite. What if we just cant grasp/see reality yet...with technological and maybe spirtual advances we're continous learning more about space. New physics also sheed some light on the field.

People allready sugested the parrallel universes. I suggest a parrallel multiverse in a sea of "infinite" thin hyperspace (who is to say there hasent been "singularityexplosions in other places). So you would have "infinite" universes with "infinite" parrallelworlds in a "infinite sea of cosmos".

Back to infinity. Theres true infiniy and graduated/scaled infinity. Simplest way to explain is with Integers. ∞ + 1 = ∞ (but a infinity larger than before). The Indian mathematical text Surya Prajnapti (c. 400 BC) classifies all numbers into three sets: enumerable, innumerable, and infinite. I would classifie it in the innumerable and the infinite.

Few weird deductions on why the universe aint infinite.....feel free to correct me i made these for fun only:
If our universe was "infinite" close to "infinite" large the stars most distant away would be close to "infinite" small in our view and it would take close to a "infinite" timespan for its light to reach us. Now if you add the singularityaspect to this, it would have taken the stars most distant a "infinite" time to reach its current destination, makeing it and our universe "infinite" old. Now your getting to another paradox...because if a star should be "infinite" old it would have to contain a "infinite" amount of gas in that case the star will be "infinite" large (takeing up all space of our universe)?