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What does 3 to 4 trillion of spending cuts actually mean?

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posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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When Republican leaders talk about $3 trillion or $4 trillion in spending cuts over the next 10 years, with no new taxes on the wealthy and large corporations, please understand what they mean. While no specific proposals have been adopted, here are some of the ideas which have been discussed.





SOCIAL SECURITY: Revising the formula which determines cost-of-living adjustments. The average Social Security recipient who retires at age 65 would get $560 less a year at age 75. The same retiree would get $1,000 less a year at age 85 than under current law. Further, another provision which would require that Social Security always be solvent for 75 years would likely mean even larger cuts in benefits. All of this would take place despite the fact that Social Security has not contributed one penny to the deficit and has a $2.6 trillion surplus today. This new formula would also cut back on the pensions of veterans.

MEDICARE: Raising the eligibility age from 65 to 67 and/or cutting benefits by as much as $500 billion over 10 years. How are 66-year-old Americans with modest means going to afford health insurance with a private company - especially if they have medical problems? It's not going to happen. They are going to suffer. Some will unnecessarily die.

MEDICAID: At a time when 50 million Americans already have no health insurance, Republicans and some Democrats are proposing to cut hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicaid. That means that many men, women and children will lose the health insurance they have. According to a Harvard University study, some 45,000 Americans die each year because they don't get to a doctor when they should. How many more will die if Medicaid is slashed? How many children will be thrown off of the Children's Health Insurance Program?

EDUCATION: Slashing Pell grants. Childcare and college education already are unaffordable for millions of working families. Head Start has long waiting-lists. If Republicans and some Democrats get their way, Pell grants and other educational programs will be deeply slashed. Affordable childcare and a college education will no longer be possible for many families in our country.

ENVIRONMENT AND ENERGY: Forget about the government having the ability to protect the people from corporations who want to evade Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act regulations With massive cuts in the EPA, the resources will not be there. Forget about this country having the investment capability to transform out energy system to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. Forget about creating millions of jobs rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and improving our public transportation system. On and on it goes.

At a time of growing hunger in America there will be massive cuts to nutrition programs. We have a crisis in homelessness, and there will be cuts to affordable housing. While we need more funds for research and development in disease prevention and other areas, fewer funds will be available.

The American people understand that the wealthiest people in this country are becoming wealthier while their effective tax rates in recent years have declined to the lowest level in modern history.

They know that large multi-national corporations and Wall Street firms are earning billions in profits and, in some cases, paying nothing in federal income taxes. They know that military spending has nearly tripled since 1997 and that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan drag on and on and on - at great expense to our taxpayers.

They also know that the middle class is disappearing, poverty is increasing and that this terrible recession is causing extraordinary suffering for working families, the elderly, the sick and the children.

But, unless we fight back vigorously, Congress and President Obama will give the American people exactly what they don't want. Despite the fact that Democrats control the White House and the Senate, it is right-wing Republicans who are calling the shots and setting the agenda. Unless we turn the tide now, they will get pretty much what they want.


sanders.senate.gov...

I really hope people understand what is at stake here on the spending cuts. Tax loopholes for corporations are not going to be closed, but cuts to all programs, whether Social Security, or something as simple as child care will be slashed and cut....already hurting a struggling country...many of whom are barely scraping by as it is.

And even with this entire debate happening, the true REAL PROBLEM is simply not being addressed. FREE TRADE. Without tariffs we cannot protect American jobs or wages as we simply cannot compete with slave labor.

Without new jobs, the government not only loses revenue, but ends up paying out more to keep the unemployed from going hungry and homeless.

You can cut taxes to zero, end all social programs, and we will still be in the same position.

Despite the rhetoric, it is the wealthy that create the laws of this nation as they are the ones who buy off our politicians. And now, as they have trashed our economy and our workforce, they expect the rest of us to take all the pain.

Even though, if they paid more in taxes, they really aren't feeling any more "pain." Someone with 10 billion and losing 1 billion out of that isn't feeling any "pain."...certainly nothing like most working people or the unemployed.




posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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The cuts will only speed up the time, until a revolution.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
Even though, if they paid more in taxes, they really aren't feeling any more "pain." Someone with 10 billion and losing 1 billion out of that isn't feeling any "pain."...certainly nothing like most working people or the unemployed.


David9176,

I wish I could find the exact quote but I cannot, so I will paraphrase what Steve Miller, the rock star once said years ago...

"What's the big deal. I make 6 Million dollars a year and pay 3 Million dollars in taxes. That leaves me with 3 Million. I have no problem with that."



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
You can cut taxes to zero, end all social programs, and we will still be in the same position.


The crappier truth...

You can raise taxes to 100%, end all social programs, and we will still be in the same position.

We have a busted monetary system as well as trade system. The reason why the government will default if the debt ceiling isn't raised is because debt is needed to service debt. A return to the credit monetary system pre-1913 (without the IRS) as well as smart tariff policy will do a ton to help this country. And we can have all the social programs too.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:40 PM
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Originally posted by Vikus

Originally posted by David9176
You can cut taxes to zero, end all social programs, and we will still be in the same position.


The crappier truth...

You can raise taxes to 100%, end all social programs, and we will still be in the same position.

We have a busted monetary system as well as trade system. The reason why the government will default if the debt ceiling isn't raised is because debt is needed to service debt. A return to the credit monetary system pre-1913 (without the IRS) as well as smart tariff policy will do a ton to help this country. And we can have all the social programs too.


Silver Standard, and work our way back up to gold. Tax imports to hell, force ourselves to be self sufficient. Make energy liberation tech our major export. It will kill big oil but it needs to be done.

I can go on for days on what we can do to better this country.

But first we need to free ourselves of the men who own us via federal reserve lending.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by Vikus
 


I don't believe in ending all social programs....my father is on both SS and Medicare...he is actually alive today because of it after a long fight with cancer.

Just making the point that people are blaming the symptoms, not the cause.

Trade policies have to be changed to fix our problems. Does it have consequences? Absolutely. We'll all be paying more at the store because of the new tariffs that would need to be in place...but quite honestly that's the only option....either that or slave labor with no benefits or hopes of retirement.

Not only would it bring jobs back to the country, but would also be a source of revenue to take a chunk out of our national debt.
edit on 26-7-2011 by David9176 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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The republican/democrats plan really doesn't cut 3-4 trillion.

Hell the current republican plan cuts a big $4 billion next year. $4 billion out of a $1.6 trillion ``official`` deficit...
Yeah that's gonna solve everything... the other ``cuts`` are accounting tricks...

Doesn't matter if those ``cuts`` are approved, they are not real cuts... and it's gonna earn the US a downgrade.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Vikus
 


I don't believe in ending all social programs....my father is on both SS and Medicare...he is actually alive today because of it after a long fight with cancer.

Just making the point that people are blaming the symptoms, not the cause.

Trade policies have to be changed to fix our problems. Does it have consequences? Absolutely. We'll all be paying more at the store because of the new tariffs that would need to be in place...but quite honestly that's the only option....either that or slave labor with no benefits or hopes of retirement.


The trade policy would only raise the price of imports and America could regain internal manufacturing jobs by actually manufacturing again.... Therby making goods and exporting them and bring more money back into our economy. Just a little observation



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:00 AM
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reply to post by agentblue
 





The trade policy would only raise the price of imports and America could regain internal manufacturing jobs by actually manufacturing again.... Therby making goods and exporting them and bring more money back into our economy. Just a little observation


Absolutely....was the point I was making. But since we have such little manufacturing here now, most of what we currently buy would automatically be higher. Of course putting tariffs on food would be an absolute no no...but most everything else would need to be done. It would be an instant boost of revenue....saving programs that Americans desperately need right now.

It's much easier to go without the xbox and wide screen tv than it is to go without a home or a warm plate of food.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by David9176
 


3 to 4 trillion in cuts over ten years mean they are not taking the problem serious, and that the market will force a very ugly chaotic collapse sooner rather than later.

According to the cbo's projections our debt will be 25 trillion by 2020, and they always underestimate. That would mean a trillion dollars just in interest assuming the rate is kept to 4% - that is extremely optimistic. That means half of all tax income would be spent on interest. That will never happen, the debt will never be allowed to get to that point.

The fact the politicians refuse to deal with reality, and really 99% of citizens refuse to deal with reality means our future is extremely bleak.

I don't care whether you don't want cuts to entitlements - they are going to happen and nothing anyone can do can stop that no matter what anyone says. The math makes it impossible for them to stay as they are, period.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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I used to work for a company that would project a ten million dollar profit, get 5 million and then claim they lost 5 million.

Fuzzy Math


I see these numbers as well. It is no surprise that issues like social security/medicaid need to be addressed and suddenly caring about the debt is the way they are going to address it. Cut, Cut, Cut while they continue to add debt is my prediction.
edit on 27-7-2011 by jam321 because: oops



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:15 AM
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Even though, if they paid more in taxes, they really aren't feeling any more "pain." Someone with 10 billion and losing 1 billion out of that isn't feeling any "pain."...certainly nothing like most working people or the unemployed.


That depends on how far they have stretched that 10 billion and what it's tied up in. Even wealthy people live beyond their means. The more money you have, the more ways you learn to spend and overspend it. I'd say they would feel that 1 billion missing depending on what they're doing with it.

I'm not an economist, I don't claim to be an expert, but the situation seems highly complicated and I have no clue how many programs are out there being funded by tax payer money. There must be thousands upon thousands of programs getting funding, and it would be really nice if we could get a list of them along with how much funding they are receiving. Weeding out the least necessary programs will help save the most important ones, vital to the country's survival. It's time to start funding some of these lesser programs through private means and donations instead of tax-payer money, and in addition to that, stop spending so much on warring overseas and financially supporting other countries. We can't even support ourselves!

I don't want to defend huge, scummy corporations with lots of lawyers constantly looking for loop holes in the tax system, but I think I'd like to defend the "rich" people, private citizens who earned their $300,000 - 1,000,000 + income by using their brains, hard work, or whatever other honest path it took to get there. I don't think it's fair that they should have to pay a larger percentage of taxes just because they learned how to earn a lot more than the average Joe. It would be nice if they were willing to donate money toward certain programs (I'd certainly do so if I made that much money per year), but I don't think they should be forced to do so via the Government.

I don't know about you, but I don't like it when people tell me what I have to do with my money, no matter how much or how little I earn. I want to have the freedom to do with it whatever I want as long as I'm not harming anyone else. If I make $1,000 a month or $20,000 a month, I did it the honest way, I worked hard for it, and just because I make more than you do doesn't give you the right to tell me what I should do with it. I'll pay my fair share, as long as it's the same percentage of income tax as what you are paying from your paycheck. It just seems to me like some people want to punish those who learned to live a better life. It's not like a lot of these people just fell into the money, they had to earn it!


Despite the rhetoric, it is the wealthy that create the laws of this nation as they are the ones who buy off our politicians. And now, as they have trashed our economy and our workforce, they expect the rest of us to take all the pain.


Sure, corporations pay politicians to make laws to their advantage, true enough, but does that mean we have to fall for their nonsense? Why aren't we voting these people out of office???

What about all those people who bought cars and houses they couldn't afford? I too received the enticing offers of " up to $1,000.000 in home loans for $3,000 a month!" fliers, but I didn't bite because I knew it had to be bull. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Some people were defrauded, I'm sure of that, but many of them completely ignored the fact that logistically it made no sense to buy a $800,000.00 house on a $70,000.00 salary. Everybody overextended themselves financially until it finally came to a horrible crash. Sure, politicians and corporations who bought them were partly responsible for the economic disaster, but let's not leave out the rest of the country who blindly followed, never questioning the logic. Most people put blinders on and kept on spending more than they could afford. They were greedy. If we're going to point fingers, let's not forget ourselves. I think that a little bit of introspection goes a long way.

If nothing else, this economic disaster will teach people to stop overspending, to carefully read their contracts, to put a little money away for emergencies, to keep a closer eye on Washington, to make more out of less, and to appreciate every opportunity to advance. Now is the time to stand up and toss out all the disgusting, vile, treacherous pieces of garbage we call our "leaders" and politicians.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:38 AM
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Excellent thread David


The really dumb thing about all this is that is has nothing to do with the core foundation of money - supply and demand, it is just all about numbers in a computer. There is plenty of health professionals, food, housing and other resources out their, but the system is so corrupt, sick and mismanaged that money has become all about ego, power, greed and control. There is just too much happening out in the economy for one system, government or corporation to fully control, but that is what all these amassed fortunes are leading towards as the gravity of more and more profits are pulling them all together. While the media plays the republicans against the democrats, it is a smoke screen as the real struggle is between the individual and the corporation.


edit on 27-7-2011 by kwakakev because: added 'numbers in a computer'



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 





While the media plays the republicans against the democrats, it is a smoke screen as the real struggle is between the individual and the corporation.


The media is definitely part of the problem as they are part of the same beast...owned by huge multinational corporations who are not going to go against their own best interests....some of whom have outsourced American jobs themselves....including Walt Disney which owns ABC..who now makes Mickey Mouse in China.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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This nation is never going to get out of debt without spending cuts. It's impossible especially at the hands of a big spender like Obama. You can jack the rich and the super rich all you want but that new little bit of increased revenue will be swallowed whole and will barely make a dent in our nations debt if that revenue is even applied to the debt. Remember, the big spending programs that need funding first.

So, go ahead and hit the wealthy again and see what happens. It won't solve the debt problem and it certainly won't control the spending problem. It will however, drive the wedge deeper between the haves and the have nots. All according to the plan because the middle class is being marginalized while the wealthy are being demonized.

The middle class soon disappears leaving a quite the gap behind. This is why big labor has spent $2.2 billion on the 2008 and 2010 election campaigns. The big labor bosses need to marginalize the middle class in order to keep them under their thumb so as to keep their movement relevant. They don't want anyone to rise out of the middle class therefore, the middle class soon becomes the working poor and meets the new standard of xbox, smart phone and A/C definition of poverty.

The cycle continues until the wealthy stop investing and stop signing payroll checks. Eventually, they set up shop in another nation. Like GE's new move to relocate it's Xray headquarters in CHINA. They plan to invest $2 billion in China not the US.

Don't forget that GE's CEO Immelt is also Obama's new chairman of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness.

Interesting.
What's left behind? The rest of the nation working for the government in exchange for scrip and room and board.
edit on 27-7-2011 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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Originally posted by jibeho
This nation is never going to get out of debt without spending cuts.



Even if the eliminated the entire Federal Government/Military....we still could not get out of debt.


You can't have half your population on Social Security. It's mathematically impossible alone in itself.

You can't have 1/4th of your population on Food Stamps. That's also mathematically impossible in itself.

Free Trade + the Baby Boomers didn't have enough kids and were the "me" Generation....a perfect storm.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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The House (majority Republicans) voted for spending cuts if debt ceiling is to be raised. The president will have none of it, and rightly so. Why bother to raise debt ceiling if spending is already cut? Why the need for loans then? Might as well just cut off everything, everyone starves, dies out and leaves the mineral resources for others in mankind to step over american lands! What are the Republicans thinking?????

Right now, Bernake is the nation's best friend. His is printing more money and using treasury notes to raise the loans for USA to get back on its feet. The loan is not comming from the rich, which had hoarded their money, and thus this way to raise loans. Some whom have confidence of USA bouncing back will buy such notes In the meantime, the dollar will drop a few points, and in a way good as it will help boost manufacturing exports earning revenue, and at the same time, hurt the hoarders whom had selfishly kept their money instead of sharing it or investing in manufacturing to create jobs.

With that loan, money will thus be circulated rightfully into the People, and not to the rich as the few earlier bailouts had unconscionably done. Instead, the rich will have to be rightfully taxed, as they had not been socially responsible to share that wealth to create jobs, but only to gamble on the casino called wall st. Look around you at the professionals in academicia, entertainment and indolent rich - had they created jobs for the masses? None except to gamble and indulge in luxuries for themselves, limited circulation of their wealth to only a select few.

If we do not raise the ceiling unconditionally or at least with only rationalise spending cuts and not total cuts as the republicans are pushing and threatening the nation, we will be where germany was in 1918 when they had massive debts to be paid. They couldnt, and wouldnt, and uprose a right winger named HItler who took advantage of the situation upon the national stage with his brainwashed NAZI supporters.

Fortunately, the young hitler failed in the Beer House Putsch, and his march upon Berlin to force the german leadership NOT TO PAY, TO DEFAULT, failed with him ended up in prison. The German leadership then proceeded to pay, thanks to generous loans by USA to restart their industries, and from the years 1921 to 1929 just prior to the Great Depression, Democratic Socialist Germany lived a golden age of prosperity as never before.

But when the Great Depression struck worldwide, many went out of jobs, money was hoarded up, sufferings became numerous, and HItler, who had bidded his time, struck and seized power in 1933, claiming to be able to solve the nation's woes. First he lied to the corporations and aristocracies, the military castes and unions to get their support. Once in power, he went full swing into industrialization, created jobs for millions, but it was manufacturing weapons of war. He allowed the Corporations full power over workers, and lowered workers wages. Everyone had a job. For money, he robbed the jews as well as the rich whom did not support Nazism, as well as revenue through adventures in Franco's Spain.

By 1938, his weapons were ready, and conquest began, and the rest is ...murderous history of untold massive suffering.

We are back at 1918 as Germany was. While we cannot change the past, we can still determine our future. USA is not without innovative human and mineral resources. And mankind still have need for resources to progress, thus the future is still bright for USA. To follow the republicans or allow them their way, is to commit suicide with no future not only for americans, but for mankind. The right winger ready to lead us to our final destruction this time with our improved weapons of mass destruction had already been born and is waiting in the wings. History, sadly, often repeats itself....


edit on 27-7-2011 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 08:45 PM
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Even if the GOP gets their way and it works, they're going to hurt America's credibility. Their plan is to get rid of the deficit by making short-term and mid-term sacrifices in the domestic economy. Balancing the books at the expense of economic growth is not going to encourage foreign investors to keep their capital in American funds. That is really what America is these days, and that is what maintains its dominance and its affluence; it is a huge trust fund for the free world.

U.S. dollars held in reserve by the European Central Bank, for example, represent investments of European capital in the Federal Reserve of the United States. The EU wants those investments to rise in value, they want to see the Dollar become more valuable and the economy become stronger. When the dollar is more valuable, then the European Central Bank has a more valuable reserve of funds to back its own currency with.

To keep the economy growing, America absolutely depends on foreign investors. Foreign banks must buy treasury bonds and the like so that America can keep getting fresh capital. It's basically a way to get free funds; the U.S. promises a pay-off in the future if you let your investments mature, and they use your money in the present to grow their own economy. Deficit spending is made possible by the confidence that foreign investors have in America's continued growth. If America decides to forgo deficit spending in favour of balancing the books and degrading its own economy, then the investments held by foreign nations become less and less valuable over time. If the infrastructure is not modernized or at least repaired, then the risk of catastrophic failures increases and investments in America could become worthless at any time. If foreign capital flees America, then there will be an economic collapse greater than any ever seen before because the economy is larger than it has ever been before.

It may seem that spending cuts will save America's credibility, but the opposite holds true. If America refuses to accept foreign investments in the form of international loans, then the world will lose confidence in America's ability to invest their capital and they will look elsewhere for a good investment opportunity.



posted on Jul, 28 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by SmedleyBurlap
Even if the GOP gets their way and it works, they're going to hurt America's credibility. Their plan is to get rid of the deficit by making short-term and mid-term sacrifices in the domestic economy. ..



If there's a plan, it's the same as usual, give public money to private companies and banks, just look who's beginning to profiteer from the deadlock:

www.guardian.co.uk...


...
The state has borrowed from eight banks, led by Goldman Sachs and Wells Fargo, as an emergency stop-gap. ...



posted on Jul, 29 2011 @ 12:12 AM
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David, you make a lot of sense. You are very articulate and very well educated with your replies/insights. I say YOU SHOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT!



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