It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Okay the bible is very confusing, I must admit.

page: 1
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:27 PM
link   
I will only ask a few questions.

If cain offered fruits to the lord before abel offered fat portions of the firstborn of his flock, then that means that Cain's offering was more innocently meaningful than abels.
Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?
The psychological impact of his favor of Abels fat portions is what led Cain to murder, but he was oviously more innocent minded than abel the sacrificer.

Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.






edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:30 PM
link   
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:31 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:34 PM
link   
reply to post by redrose123
 


I don't study the bible I read it, and besides its ovious flaws it still is holy and holds many secrets.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:36 PM
link   
Since the "Nephelim"were in the Earth those days, maybe his wife was the first hybrid created by them to crosbreed with cain. Being that cain felt left out and was vulnerable to accept a mate. Maybe this is the secret of the bloodlines, Cains blood is half human half nephelim.
edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:44 PM
link   
Adam and Eve were the first people created. The bible does not say they were the ONLY people created.



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 10:54 PM
link   
reply to post by TheTruthCqer
 


This is probably not the right forum.

I can't answer why Abel's animal sacrifice was given higher value than Cain's grain offering.

I can say based on the text, there were other people beyond Eden. Cain builds a city for them named after his son "east" of Eden in the land of "Nod". Two notes: the Hebrew term there for "East" doesn't always mean "East" and Nod means a land of wanderers: aka Nomads.

How does that make sense plot wise?

Chapter I of Genesis on the 6th day humans, male and female are created.

Chapter II, Eden is created and Adam is created.

In other words Adam wasn't first, based on the text.
edit on 26/7/11 by MikeboydUS because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
I will only ask a few questions.

If cain offered fruits to the lord before abel offered fat portions of the firstborn of his flock, then that means that Cain's offering was more innocently meaningful than abels.
Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?
The psychological impact of his favor of Abels fat portions is what led Cain to murder, but he was oviously more innocent minded than abel the sacrificer.

Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.






edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)


1. Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?

Answer: God required sacrifice. Sacrifice is the only thing that could cover their sins and something had to die in order for their sins to be covered. Cain's offering was rejected because it was based on works. he worked and brought forth the firstfruits to try and purchase it. It is also an issue of pride saying "Look at what i done"

2. Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Answer: The time frame in which this was commited was possibly hundreds of years after the expulsion out of the garden of eden and there could have been roughly between 100,000 and 3million people on their (figure off the top of my head)

3. Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Answer: It was incest. ancient Geneologies always included the males but not the females. its not recorded how many female children adam and eve had. And marriage to a sibling was safe back then the gene pool was much more clear and there were no defects. its only now that degenerate mans gene pool is not clean enough to marry a close relative without the threat of deformations. side note incest is still practiced today in other countries of the world.

4. Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.

There is no proof to assume that Moses learned dark magic from jannes and jambres. The miracles that he did he did at the direction of God and was not a practice that he mastered and in fact he didn't do them alone Aaron was Moses's Mouthpiece and initiator. it was Aaron that tossed the staff down that turned into a Snake. There is supernatural power that comes from both parties God and Devils. God's is always greater.



The bible is not confusing you are just no learned yet. It will take time but be diligent in your studies and ask God to give you understanding. The holy spirit will teach you and lead you in the knowledge of God. Study! to show yourself approved!



edit on 26-7-2011 by Keeper of Kheb because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:19 PM
link   
reply to post by TheTruthCqer
 


You forgot to mention the end of that story.

Yes, the magicians were able to copy the works of God, but in the end, Gods big serpent gobbled up the copy cats

edit on 26-7-2011 by radpetey because: am spelling challanged



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:32 PM
link   
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
If cain offered fruits to the lord before abel offered fat portions of the firstborn of his flock, then that means that Cain's offering was more innocently meaningful than abels.
Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?


First, there is a bit of an error in what you have written. Able offered not only the fat, but the lambs and their fat:

And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

But that is not really the issue here.
God can see mans heart and the future. God already knew that Cain was jealous of his brother, and that he would end up killing him. I assume that Cain also did not give to God with his heart in the right place. Its not so much what you give, but rather how you give, such as this woman:

And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mark 12:41-43


Originally posted by TheTruthCqerThe psychological impact of his favor of Abels fat portions is what led Cain to murder, but he was oviously more innocent minded than abel the sacrificer.

According to tradition and several Pseudepigraphal writings, there was more to his jealousy then simply a rejection of an offering. As a matter of fact one of the supposed things that he was jealous about was the issue of his and Abels wives.

en.wikipedia.org...
Though Genesis depicts Cain's motive in killing Abel as simply being one of jealousy concerning God's favour for Abel, this is not the view of many extra-biblical works. The Midrash and the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan both record that the real motive involved the desire of women.

Which brings up your next question:

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Not mentioned in the bible, but again is in Pseudepigraphal writings and Jewish tradition. Supposedly both Cain and Abel were twins, each born with a sister. Adam wanted the sisters to marry the opposite brother, so Cain’s twin would marry Abel and Abel’s twin Cain. The problem was that Cain’s twin sister was apparently much more attractive then Abel’s:

According to Midrashic tradition, Cain and Abel each had twin sisters, whom they were to marry. The Midrash records that Abel's promised wife was the more beautiful. Cain would not consent to this arrangement. Adam proposed to refer the question to God by means of a sacrifice. God rejected Cain's sacrifice, signifying His disapproval of his marriage with Aclima, and Cain slew his brother in a fit of jealousy.



Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Cain’s descendants multiplied on the land and eventually one of them does in fact kill Cain:

Then Lamech took for himself two wives: the name of one was Adah, and the name of the second was Zillah. And Adah bore Jabal. He was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock. His brother’s name was Jubal. He was the father of all those who play the harp and flute. And as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron. And the sister of Tubal-Cain was Naamah[1].
Then Lamech said to his wives:
“Adah and Zillah, hear my voice;
Wives of Lamech, listen to my speech!
For I have killed a man for wounding me,
Even a young man for hurting me.
If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold,
Then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.”
Genesis 4:19-24

According to several Pseudepigraphal writings he is in fact talking about having accidentally murdered Cain thinking he was a thief.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 7/26/2011 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 26 2011 @ 11:50 PM
link   
What a bunch of nonsense. Sheesh. It always amazes me how people can believe this bunch of folklore and fairy tales. The bible is a man made publication. God did not make man, man made god.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:10 AM
link   

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
I will only ask a few questions.

If cain offered fruits to the lord before abel offered fat portions of the firstborn of his flock, then that means that Cain's offering was more innocently meaningful than abels.
Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?
The psychological impact of his favor of Abels fat portions is what led Cain to murder, but he was oviously more innocent minded than abel the sacrificer.

Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.

edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)


Cain question:

Many will say that Cain was not sacrificing anything useful (only something hard to attain) even though animal fat is actually pretty useful. I tend to think that God knew how he'd react and that's why he did it. Call it the first act of trolling?

Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

God created people twice. First in the creation story (the day by day account in collaboration with other gods) and then he created Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve were the first of that God's people. There were tons of people around when Cain walked the Earth.

Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.

Hah! Yeah... I'm surprised the church didn't edit that out. There were definitely potent sorcerers and other gods in the bible. Many fundies will explain them away but they're there.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:26 AM
link   
reply to post by TheTruthCqer
 


Usually hard to understand stories in the Bible can be explained. Or at least you can get into the heads of the characters to understand why they thought they should be doing something. But it usually takes a lot of study and learning about how people in those days lived and thought compared to modern time.

Unfortunately, the Cain and Able sacrifice story just isn't one of them.

If you Google around you'll find 8,000 or so theories and there's no way to know if any of them are correct.

One of them being that the real problem was Cain was Jealous of Able's wife or something. But the Bible doesn't say anything about that.

The only clue is that the term, fat thereof, doesn't really mean fat per se. It's a Biblical expression that can also mean the best parts. It's saying that Able brought the best parts of his flock. However, it doesn't say anything about the quality of Cain's sacrifice. We could assume that the story is saying that Cain just brought the fruit he didn't care about while Able brought the best that he had. However, it doesn't actually say that. We'd just be speculating.

Another idea is that the sacrifice itself wasn't important. It was Cain's heart that was important and Cain was jealous or angry.

Also, perhaps the way it was written would have made sense to people of the time because it implies some concept that everyone would have understood, but that is now lost on our modern ways of thinking.

Like imagine reading a book that starts with a guy getting home from the store 3,000 years after we invent star-trek replicators. What's a store lol? Then everyone sits around trying to figure out what a store is, and why the character had gone to it lol. Something blatantly obvious to us today.

Contrary to all the theories the Bible, nowhere from start to finish, explains why God picked Able's sacrifice. In the NT it refers back and says that Able's sacrifice was greater, but it doesn't explain what was greater about it.

In the end, this is just one story that the Bible doesn't give enough information on. No one knows the answer for certain. It's a mystery. At least to anyone that's still alive.

EDIT:
Also, it doesn't really say that only Cain, Able, Adam, and Eve were the only ones alive. There could have been others by this time. For example, Cain may have already had his wife and took her to Nod.

It reads that he went to Nod and knew his wife. However, in the Bible knew means to have sex with. It does not mean meeting someone. So, the way you to have to read it is, Cain went to Nod and had sex with his wife. If he's having sex with her, it may imply he may have already met her.

The Bible doesn't actually say if Cain met his wife in Nod or he took his wife with him to Nod. It just says he had sex with his wife in Nod. He may have already been married before he left.

However, none of that matters. Even if they were the only people alive, others would be born later and once hearing the story may have wanted to kill him just the same once they knew he was a murderer.
edit on 27-7-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-7-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by imawlinn
What a bunch of nonsense. Sheesh. It always amazes me how people can believe this bunch of folklore and fairy tales. The bible is a man made publication. God did not make man, man made god.


A person may still want to get into an author's mind however. Would you get as angry and post the same reply if someone had asked why Yoda was hiding out on in the Dagobah system? Probably not. You may even have answered the question if you were a Star Wars fan.

Would you have made the same reply if people thought Star Wars was true, but you knew it wasn't? Maybe. Or maybe there's another reason one fictional story irritates more than the others. But nevertheless, fictional or not, every popular story will have people asking questions about it.
edit on 27-7-2011 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by redrose123
reply to post by TheTruthCqer
 


What is your point. Anyone studying the bible is either stupid enough to believe in santa or has realized that it has been changed, twisted and makes no sense.


It makes much more sense than your beating your chest and stomping your feet and calling it a fairy tale


It takes a neutral and balanced mind type of approach to understand what is in it and the meanings... Most everything in it is hidden inside parables... Think of it as an IQ test amongst other things.. It was written in a way that you must make an honest effort to understand it...

Which boils down to: It isn't going to be spoon fed to you free of effort and care... Having at least some "virtue" is a prerequisite.. Any person that can't do these things really does not want to understand it because they have an angry and childish mind, which would hamper learning practically anything..



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb

Originally posted by TheTruthCqer
I will only ask a few questions.

If cain offered fruits to the lord before abel offered fat portions of the firstborn of his flock, then that means that Cain's offering was more innocently meaningful than abels.
Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?
The psychological impact of his favor of Abels fat portions is what led Cain to murder, but he was oviously more innocent minded than abel the sacrificer.

Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.






edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-7-2011 by TheTruthCqer because: (no reason given)


1. Then why does the lord get mad at poor Cain?

Answer: God required sacrifice. Sacrifice is the only thing that could cover their sins and something had to die in order for their sins to be covered. Cain's offering was rejected because it was based on works. he worked and brought forth the firstfruits to try and purchase it. It is also an issue of pride saying "Look at what i done"

2. Why would the lord put a sign on Cain so that anyone who sees him won't kill him, if the only people alive at the time where him his brother and Adam and eve?

Answer: The time frame in which this was commited was possibly hundreds of years after the expulsion out of the garden of eden and there could have been roughly between 100,000 and 3million people on their (figure off the top of my head)

3. Who was cain's wife? How can she have existed or was it incest.

Answer: It was incest. ancient Geneologies always included the males but not the females. its not recorded how many female children adam and eve had. And marriage to a sibling was safe back then the gene pool was much more clear and there were no defects. its only now that degenerate mans gene pool is not clean enough to marry a close relative without the threat of deformations. side note incest is still practiced today in other countries of the world.

4. Before every miracle performed by Moses is mentioned, the fact that they were all performed by Egyptian sorcerers is mentioned, clearly explaining that Moses Had learned their arts then made mastered them, being the best of his time.

There is no proof to assume that Moses learned dark magic from jannes and jambres. The miracles that he did he did at the direction of God and was not a practice that he mastered and in fact he didn't do them alone Aaron was Moses's Mouthpiece and initiator. it was Aaron that tossed the staff down that turned into a Snake. There is supernatural power that comes from both parties God and Devils. God's is always greater.



The bible is not confusing you are just no learned yet. It will take time but be diligent in your studies and ask God to give you understanding. The holy spirit will teach you and lead you in the knowledge of God. Study! to show yourself approved!



edit on 26-7-2011 by Keeper of Kheb because: (no reason given)


Very well said. Amen to that!



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:07 AM
link   
I wish I could have said what I said half as good as the above.....

And OP, I wasn't trying to berate you, or demean you personally, just trying to illustrate a scenerio associated with things like this..which is very common, especially here at ATS

edit on 27-7-2011 by alienreality because: eta



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:37 AM
link   
Well If the lord required flesh sacrifice for sin, for what sin/s was Cain making this sacrifice, if no sin besides the forbidden fruit had yet been mentioned.

It still leaves us with the fact that neither Cain nor Able wouldn't have known what the lord would've preferred so both of their motives were very different. Cains were innocent, while Abels involved blood.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:46 AM
link   
reply to post by TheTruthCqer
 


Well technically after looking at it, it doesn't say sacrifice. it just says offering. Like a tithe at church. Which means there might not be any sin. It could have just been an offering.

It literally skips that part. It just says, after time, here they came to make an offering. It doesn't even say why. The Hebrew does use the word for offering, and not the word for sacrifice, so it implies it wasn't for any sin. It was just an offering made to God.

It doesn't even say if God asked for it or not. It's actually a pretty small story in the Bible and I'm not sure there's anything to take away from it without endless speculation on something that no one really knows the answer to.



posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:51 AM
link   
reply to post by tinfoilman
 


Thanks, very helpful.




top topics



 
6
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join