How they got the explosives in the buildings; the easiest part of the puzzle

reply to post by kro32


I disagree with you Kro32. A simple dirty bomb would not have been a new "Pearl Harbor" What was needed in these times was the most massive obvious (second time WE tried to blow it up) structure in the world that would send the country into panic! A dirty bomb in Detroit would have been news, but not like this...

CJ

I remember reading somewhere about a year ago (or more) the twin towers elevators were being "upgraded" for the whole 9 months leading up to the attacks of 9/11. I will post the link to where ever I read this, if I can locate it again. This same information is also presented in one of the video presentations on the website Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth ( www.ae911truth.org... ), I believe it was in the video "9/11: Blueprint For Truth".

This would give them plenty of time to have "3rd party, strangers" accessing the guts of the elevator shafts, and I believe access to the elevator shafts would allow access to other special-access areas where key structural joints were located.

Additionally, the "unreacted nano thermite" which has been independently conclusively identified in the World Trade Center dust had to have been sprayed, or painted onto the structural steel members. I believe unabated access to the elevator shafts would have been first and foremost necessity, then access to all other hidden maintenance areas, wiring closets, power rooms, spaces between floors would most likely be required for a successful controlled demolition operation --- which 9/11 clearly was.

All in all, getting access to the required areas of the building could have very easily been gained under the "9 month elevator upgrade". It's highly likely prepping a fully furnished and up-and-running structure such as one of the towers would be much more lengthy than prepping a structure which has been gutted and slated for demolition. This is why I believe access to the elevator shafts would have been required for this controlled demolition.

reply to post by J.Son79


Al quida or however you spell it wanted to show the vulnerability of the U.S. but more importantly that they had the means to pull off something far outside the scope of just sending in a suicide bomber to a football stadium. Their main goal was not to kill as many people as they could but to show they have evolved into a more intricate force than just the common terrorist.

And they succeeded ten-fold. On a side not people bring up all these facts of why the government created 9/11 but seem to overlook the evidence that it was Al-quieda.

Okay, since I just came across this video I'll throw another theory as to how explosives could have been placed into the ring...



I'm not saying I believe it, but neither will I discount it.

Originally posted by kro32
Why would the government go through all this trouble and complexity just for an excuse to invade Iraq or pass the Patriot Act when a simple plan would have acheived the exact same results with a far less risk of something going wrong?

A single Al-Quieda man setting off a dirty bomb or something along those lines would have given America all the reason they needed.

If the government asked you to create something that would mobilize the American people is 9/11 what you would come up with? There are 1000 different things that have to go perfectly right for this to be pulled off. The amount of people with knowledge is far too large for comfort.

Look at the history of government cover-ups and how successful they were.

Gulf of Tonkin, Johnson couldn't even keep one little bombing incident secret and it was leaked through the pentagon papers.

Bay of Pigs. A disaster by Kennedy that didn't involve nearly the complexity of a 9/11 operation, totally blown

Watergate, Nixon couldn't even hide 2 people stealing files yet our government is gonna pull off something involving 4 jetliners and 100's of people?

Get serious and look at the big picture. Alot of people get hung up on details and do not see the forest through the trees.

Dirty bombs don't work. Plain and simple. The US and Iraq both abandonned work on these as weapons a long time ago. Winds spread the radiation so fast that nobody gets irradiated. That's why they're not blowing up all over the place.

If you really think governments can't keep things secret, you know very little about higher-ups in the government. By the way, Project Manhattan was kept secret for over 15 years even though tens of thousands of people had worked on it.

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by Observer99

 

Was the Pentagon and the plane crash in PA a demolition job too? You cannot separate the events of that day. They were a single attack on several fronts. The Sears tower was supposed to be hit that day as well. Why no explosives planted in there?

- Pentagon hit was very shady, same garbage media coverage -- keep showing Pentagon after the fire and collapse, rather than right after impact when almost no damage was visible. Giant wings supposedly folding up and/or causing no visible damage. Media answer -- bury the question by not showing the evidence that leads to the question. Same deal with building 7 -- bury the evidence, don't show it, so not enough people ask the hard questions at the time. Many people in Europe, for instance, had never even heard of building 7. Gee I wonder why...
- Plane crash in PA was very possibly a plane that was supposed to hit building 7. However, I am not that interested in supposition about 9/11 since I'd rather concentrate on concrete evidence and facts, such as the concrete evidence of thermite products (molten metal) pouring out of the towers.
- Sears Tower "was supposed to be hit" oh ok, says who? The criminals in the govt that headed the investigation? The criminals in the govt that perpetrated the other murders on 9/11? How much more weak can you get.

You can toss out red herrings and act as an apologist and debunker until you're blue in the face. Doesn't change the video of molten metal pouring out of the towers.

a serious question to Americans:

the WTC buildings, had it some special meaning for you? A symbol of something? What do those buildings mean for the American citizens?

Impo, the focus should be on WTC 7, not only about the way it came down, but also the secrets within which are, i guess, totally destroyed. The Twin Towers are imo just a distraction, but part of the plan, because we all know what that started.

I also just read the Twin Towers were years of discussion for heavy renovation, but that calculated bill was a bit steep for the owners, it seems.

I don't want another debunker/truthers threat. I m tired of people who love to troll, ignore proofs and questions, claiming their sources are right, blablabla......let's behave adult, shall we? After all, its an very emotional loaded topic.

Originally posted by micmerci
I was an elevator mechanic in NYC for years. I can say without any doubt that the elevators were not the means of access for explosives. This would mean that Otis Elevator Co. was involved in the plot and that the resident elevator mechanics were involved as well. The WTC complex had a dozen or so full time mechanics onsite. Those guys were there everyday for years. They developed relationships within the buildings after seeing the same people day in and day out for years. There is no way any of these guys were involved in any inside plot.

I probably wasn't clear enough on this point; I apologize. I didn't mean to imply that the elecator guys were involved, but used them simply as an example of how workers can go about a building without being questionned. I don't believe elevator mechanics would have been of any use in this particular plot.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by ajmusicmedia

 

Fine. So what happens when one of your phony elevator repair men runs into a real elevator maintenance guy? Elevator repair, construction and maintenance is a heavily unionized business in New York city. They don't like seeing strangers fooling around in their elevators. And they consider them "their" elevators. Sorry, its a lot more complicated then you think. I know that its a popular plot device in movies that all you need to do is look official and have the right tools and outfit and you can walk around and do anything, but it doesn't work like that. Try it sometime. Dress up like a some kind of repair tech and walk into a Manhattan office building and start snooping around. See what happens.

Of course you don't just dress anybody up and send them in. Just start a small business (legally so no questions asked) and get hired to do all the maintenance. Where as you hire real workers to do the actual maintenance and mix in your guys to do the dirty work.

just stumbled on it, and it's new to me (and i hope it's true):

there has been a power down in the South tower on the 8th and the 9th September, in total between 24 and 36 hours, and went up from floor 50 till 96, if i read right. Also, the bomb sniffing dogs were removed several days before the attack

world911truth.org...




btw, has some update information about the damaged hard drives that recorded every financial transaction? I only found articles about them trying to recover it (2002), but i don't find any updated info about possible 'illegal' transactions

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
Thermite....hmmm.

Have you ever worked in a blacksmiths forge?

Yeah that's a good conspiracy theory for TPTB when their other one fails -- each corner of the towers had a hidden blacksmith forge! And the plane hit caused the magical dwarves to tip over their smelting pots, leading to catastrophic collapse!

That would be more plausible than the official story.

Originally posted by OccamAssassin
How did blacksmiths ever manage to melt steel/iron down if coke could not provide the heat required? Answer...Introduce more oxygen. Fan the flames with air.

Or magic. Lots of magic.

Keep fanning peoples' ignorance with lies, that will cause the stupidity to burn white hot and melt through the truth once and for all.

-----

After posting, I realized that some well-meaning people out there, unlike the troll I'm responding to here, might not grasp how ludicrous his fallacies are. Here is his argument:

"The molten metal may not have been from thermite, it could have been a normal reaction after the jet fuel ignition, with lots of air / office materials which burned hotter and hotter until they could melt steel."

This is patently absurd, for several reasons:

- None of the subsequent tests with jet fuel & mockup buildings & materials have done anything of the sort
- Office materials do not burn nearly that hot; you'd have to believe all of the buildings had amazing unusual materials in them to push the temperature hot enough to melt steel
- Building 7 had no jet impact and thus no jet fuel, yet it collapsed in the same manner

We had 3 steel-framed buildings collapse "due to fire" in one day, the first time it's ever happened before or since. We also see molten metal pouring from one of the buildings -- I'd like to see you show me other instances of office fires with molten metal spraying out the sides. Good luck. Thus, you have the following 2 unsustainable arguments:

- The molten metal (a totally improbable outcome in the official story, which you explain via a string of totally improbable suppositions) was unrelated to the collapse
- The molten metal WAS related to the collapse, and all 3 buildings had these amazing, implausible impromptu "blacksmith" forges occurring due to jet fuel and air currents, even the building not hit by a plane

So which is it, troll?

Originally posted by Hessling
Okay, since I just came across this video I'll throw another theory as to how explosives could have been placed into the ring...

I'm not saying I believe it, but neither will I discount it.

This story is a complete red herring. Gelatin was a performance art group. Its four members were/are NOT art students. They wrote a book about their exploits and still have a website containing information and photos about their stay in one of the WTC towers in 2000 ("The B Thing"). They still perform today.
www.gelitin.net...
www.gelitin.net...
The video shows the "dancing Israelis" who were arrested, found to be Mossad agents in the Israeli TV studio after they were deported from the USA, but they were unrelated to the art performers who belonged to Gelatin, none of whom are Israelis. This confusion still gets perpetuated on conspiracy theory forums.
As soon as one researches into this group, any idea that they were secretly planting tons and tons of high-explosives whilst occupying some of the floors of a tower at the WTC in one of their performance art stunts soon has to be rejected as ludicrous. There was ample opportunity during the power-down that took place during the weekend before 9/11 for explosives to be taken into the towers by men masquerading as electricians, etc.

reply to post by micmerci


One of my friends is an elevator installer - currently is going to work on the new Freedom Tower

Its a small work and these people all kniow each other from working together or be reputation

Strangers walking in to "fix the elevators" would be recognized and challenged

Originally posted by ClamChowder
I remember reading somewhere about a year ago (or more) the twin towers elevators were being "upgraded" for the whole 9 months leading up to the attacks of 9/11. I will post the link to where ever I read this, if I can locate it again. This same information is also presented in one of the video presentations on the website Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth ( www.ae911truth.org... ), I believe it was in the video "9/11: Blueprint For Truth".

This would give them plenty of time to have "3rd party, strangers" accessing the guts of the elevator shafts, and I believe access to the elevator shafts would allow access to other special-access areas where key structural joints were located.

There is no way this could be possible!! Elevator hoistways by code must be sealed by non-flammable 2 hour rated material. There is no access to anything structural in elevator hoistways. This is not the movies! People cannot open access panels in shaftways to get into the inner annals of buildings. It doesn't work like that.

Even during elevator modernization the hoistway is not altered (structurally).

Maybe access was possible during the power down the previous weekend but I can't help to keep going back to the unnecessary elaborateness of the whole plan for it to be realistic.

reply to post by micmerci


I concur completely. People really get sucked into the idea that fictional stories they see on TV and in the movies are all based in some form of reality.

In order to plant explosives in areas that would be meaningful they would need access to the hoistways areas. I can't emphasize enough how sensitive professionals are about who does and does not have access to these areas. This is a matter of public safety. Imagine trying to sneak into a bus terminal and start fooling around with the busses. Not going to happen.

reply to post by hooper


whatever way it was done, it still shows all three buildings came down in an unnatural way

and, deniable, or not, there is still this:

www.scribd.com... (full article)

Conclusion

At the moment of the impact by the planes on the Twin Towers and their collapse, as well as
that of WTC7, seismic waves were generated. To the degree that (1) seismic waves are only
created by brief impulses, and (2) that low frequencies are associated with an energy
(magnitude) that is comparable to a seismic event, these waves undeniably have an
explosive origin. Even if the planes' impact and the fall of the debris from the Towers
onto the ground could have generated seismic waves, their magnitude was insufficient
to be recorded 34 km away, and they should have been similar.

However, the composition and magnitude of the seismic signals show significant
differences, above all in their propagation speed, even though their paths were identical
under identical conditions. This last difference being physically unexplainable in the official
version, we must put into question the calculation of the speeds effectuated from the origin
shown on the video images. We can only conclude that in reality, the (explosive) source
was manually detonated, thus accounting for the variable shift for each origin in
relation to the videos.

The composition of the waves is revealing both in terms of the location of the source and the
magnitude of the energy transmitted to the ground. The subterranean origin of the waves
emitted when WTC1 collapsed is attested by the presence of the P and S volume waves
along with the Rayleigh surface waves, which are present in all five explosions.The

placement of the source of the four other explosions is subaerial, attested by the unique
presence of Rayleigh waves. The aerial explosions visible on the videos of the upper
floors of the Twin Towers do not produce seismic waves 34 km from the source.

There is a factor of ten between the power of the explosions at the time of the impacts on the twin Towers (as well as at the time of the collapse of WTC7) and the strength of those more powerful ones at the time of their collapse, the subterranean explosion under WTC1 being the one that transmitted the most energy to the ground.

Note as well that the degree to which the surface waves disperse (their speed depends upon their frequency), the duration of the recorded signal is not representative of the duration of the signal at the source.

Finally, the controlled demolition of the three towers, suggested by the visual and audio
testimony, as well as by observations of their collapse, is thus demonstrated by the analysis
of the seismic waves emitted at the moments of the plane impacts and at the moments of the
collapse

probably not an expert report to you?

reply to post by bing0

probably not an expert rapport to you?

Whats a rapport?

Besides, not on topic. The topic, I believe, was whether it is reasonable to assume that you can sneak around in a building and plant massive amounts of explosives without a chance of being found out.

I propose that it is not. Not impossible, but so highly unlikely that the idea of someone taking a chance does not hold water.

reply to post by hooper


my Dutch kicked in ...report, written study, dunno the right word for it

still, the sniffing bomb dogs were removed 5 days before the attack, there has been several evacuation exercises in the days (weeks?) before the attack. The aftermath (falling down of the WTCs) does show 'anomalies', but probably we can keep on discussing this until the technology and the way how they did it is exposed by whoever

btw, back in 2001, how was the security in those days...was it also very tight and strict (as it is now)?

reply to post by bing0


The only dogs that were "removed" were EXTRA dogs that had augmented the normal dogs for a time of increased security. The dogs that were normally assigned to the WTC were still there.

reply to post by bing0

still, the sniffing bomb dogs were removed 5 days before the attack,

The extra dogs were, one dog regularly assigned to the building was killed in the attack.

there has been several evacuation exercises in the days (weeks?) before the attack.

You'll have to be specific, but evacuation drills in office buildings is pretty common and routine in the US, required by law in most municipalities. Plus, remember, the building was the subject of a terrorist attack in 1993.

The aftermath (falling down of the WTCs) does show 'anomalies', but probably we can keep on discussing this until the technology and the way how they did it is exposed by whoever

Actually, you can't call them anamolies as no highrise building of the size and type of construction as the towers had ever been struck by large commercial jetliners at high speed, therefore, no anamolies.

btw, back in 2001, how was the security in those days...was it also very tight and strict (as it is now)?

At the WTC? Very strict. As I said above the buildings were the target of a terrorist attack in 1993. Therefore the idea of any Tom, Dick or Harry throwing on a costume and moving about as they please in the building was going to happen.