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The Holy Spirit is my Proof

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posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 06:00 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Yes, I am in the "Jesus Christ is Lord and was crucified for our sins, and was risen for our salvation to all who place their trust and faith in Him alone" CULT.
Deal with it. Jesus is Lord, and He is returning soon. My entire trust and faith is in Him and what He did.

Seems you changed the name of your cult from earlier. That's good you made an improvement to something actually biblical.






posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:37 PM
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LOL (PaulPaulPaulPaul) Alot of these comments seem to be applying paul has all the athourity.
Alot of what he said completely contradicts JESUS.

We are predestined? Doesnt that wipe out the whole free choice thing?
Luke 15: 10Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.
Why so joyful if it is predetermined?

Not all are elect. Faith alone does not make you elect. Those who want to be first in the kingdom shall be last. We do not chose ourselves we are choosen and none of us no who we are.
Luke 13: 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
There are others who are far worthier to be the elect of GOD. Jesus told us very clearly this.

Repentance is not a show and tell thing. Some things are between you and GOD and JESUS only. We are all to be humble before our FATHER
Luke 18:11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.




It's not profitable to the church unless there is an interpreter. Some have the gift of interpretation. (1 Cor. 12) Paul said he would sing normally and sing in the Spirit. He would pray normally and pray in the Spirit. Paul says he not only speaks with the tongues of men but "also" the tongues "of angels". (1 Corinthians 13:1) Paul said people who speak in this angelic tongue don't speak to men, but only to God. (1 Corinthians 14:2). Paul also says that "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" (1 Cor. 14:4), so the unknown tongue of angels to God is edification,
for that believer themselves.


That to me sounds against JESUS's humble approach.

edification,
1.The act of edifying, or the state of being edified; a building up, especially in a moral, emotional, or spiritual sense; moral, intellectual, or spiritual improvement; through encouragement and instruction.
build up,
To accumulate, to pile up, to increase in stages,
exalt,
1.(transitive) To honor; to hold in high esteem.
They exalted their queen.
2. To raise in rank, status etc., to elevate.,
We can not exalt ourselves. Only Jesus and GOD may exalt us.
Paul exhaults himself, What does JESUS say about this?for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Also if this is you're rebuttle to the tounges, then were is the interpetation. If it were a true miracle of GOD wouldnt he give the gift of interpertation as well?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Mividau
 


Hun, Paul wrote Romans. The most comprehensive and the definitive book on Christian doctrine n the entire Bible. Paul certainly doesn't contradict Jesus, and secondly, Jesus's main apostle affirms that Paul is a "beloved brother" in Christ. He also endorsed "all" Paul's teachings in "all" his epistles, and even declares them on par with "the other scriptures". (2 Peter 3:15-16)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Mividau
 

Repentance is not a show and tell thing.
It also works the other way.
You don't brag about your sin.
For example a good friend of mine is all into the "only by faith" thing and seems to enjoy saying he is a sinner but is saved. If you go in his house and look on the whatever is comparable to "the mantle" of years ago, a nice framed picture of himself in all his gang regalia. Very proud of his criminal past. He served his time in prison so he paid his debt and no worries now. Just like his current sins, no problem, all paid for.


edit on 1-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



He served his time in prison so he paid his debt and no worries now. Just like his current sins, no problem, all paid for.


How many of his sins were yet future when Christ hung on the cross?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Mividau
 


Hun, Paul wrote Romans. The most comprehensive and the definitive book on Christian doctrine n the entire Bible. Paul certainly doesn't contradict Jesus, and secondly, Jesus's main apostle affirms that Paul is a "beloved brother" in Christ. He also endorsed "all" Paul's teachings in "all" his epistles, and even declares them on par with "the other scriptures". (2 Peter 3:15-16)


My previous quote shows there is indeed a difference between those teching's. We are all beloved brethern in Christ to be very honest. Even as I now sit here and disagree with you, I know you are a beloved brother in Christ.

Not only this but Jesus picked His disciples which became apostles because they witnessed His death and resurrection and had walked with Him during His ministry on earth. They are his witnesses. As he declared 2 or 3 witnesses is His Word established Did He handpick Paul? No! Paul exalted himself to be an apostle! He didnt walk with Jesus nor was he there durning the resurection. Paul was a Pharisee, and Jesus warned us to be wary of the leaven of the Pharisees.

Act 1:26 Clearly states Matthias replaced Judas Iscariot. ie ---> And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. So I am sorry but I will only listen to Jesus at this point. If you chose to ignore these facts that is you're choice and I will not hold it against you.
But I see paul for what he truely is. The snake in the garden still hissing away in defiance to GOD and Jesus.

LOTZA LUV



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Once again I agree with you JM. Sin is what seperates us from GOD and JESUS.
So dont be proud of that. To me its like cheating on you're wife who you love dearly.
Then constently brag that she forgave you of it. That forgiveness will begin to wear thin. (w/ the wife lol)

As always LOTZA LUV JM



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Mividau
 


Paul was called to be an apostle to the gentiles by Christ Himself. Are you considering Christ isn't sovereign to convict a pharisee and redeem him? That's silly to me, no offense. Nicodemus was also a pharisee. Jesus said to beware of the "leaven" of the pharisees, which was their doctrine. Jesus didn't say to beware of the pharisees themselves. He came to save sinners. Paul after conversion rejected the doctrine of the pharisees, and was martyred for his conversion to the Lord. Paul was called to be the apostle to the gentiles, I'm a gentile, Paul is my apostolic authority under Christ. Romans is the most comprehensive and definitive book in the Bible about Christian doctrine, then Galatians and Ephesians. And did you not look at what Peter says about Paul in 2 Peter 3:15-16?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Mividau
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Once again I agree with you JM. Sin is what seperates us from GOD and JESUS.
So dont be proud of that. To me its like cheating on you're wife who you love dearly.
Then constently brag that she forgave you of it. That forgiveness will begin to wear thin. (w/ the wife lol)

As always LOTZA LUV JM


But why would anyone be proud of their sins? That idea seems absurd to me. If someone did take pride in their sinning I would be hard-pressed to call them regenerated by the Holy Spirit.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Mividau
 

Are you considering Christ isn't sovereign to convict a pharisee and redeem him?


Well that seems rude after some of the things I have seen you put out there. You quote Paul more then you're redeemer, Paul doesnt deserve all that GLORY. GOD and JESUS do. That is what I am ademently against. He teach's a 30 second prayer to salvation and thats it. Salvation is only the begging of the narrow path you need to be on. Pauls path is very wide and lazy.

I will be honest with you, I do not see paul as any athourity. I also saw that Peter was chosen to be called upon to be the apostle to the gentile's. Also Jesus states that there is only 12 gates into the holy city. All named after his apostles. Not 13 but 12, paul is not among them.

Also lets talk about pauls conversion story. Luke clearly states 3 different versions. Paul also doesnt offer up a single witness to this event. Paul also seem's to serve 2 master's which Jesus clearly said you could not do. When he was with gentiles he behaved as a gentile and when he was with jews he behaved as a jew. Paul continualy claims to have come in his own name. Which Jesus forsaw ie You reject me and I donot come in my own name. But you will accept another who comes in his own name.

Anything worth haveing entails work. Paul teach's a easy way out, luke warm salvation. Which was not what JESUS taught. If you love something with all you're heart you have a passion and a fire for them. Thats what GOD and JESUS want, a passion through our love for them. Which Jesus taught was the first LAW, LOVE THE FATHER YOU"RE GOD WITH ALL YOU"RE HEART. Didnt Paul call them a curse?

LOTZA LUV
P.S. Sorry I am tired and have young one's. I will put verses up tomarrow for you if you wish. I cant go untill 5am like you and JM. Also please donot think I am being disrespectful to you in anyway. I do see you are very passionent as am I. And I do greatly respect you as I respect Jm as well. I do see both of you board hopping.

Have a nice night



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by Mividau

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Mividau
 

Are you considering Christ isn't sovereign to convict a pharisee and redeem him?


Well that seems rude after some of the things I have seen you put out there.


It may seem that way, but I wan't intending to be rude. I really wondered if you had considered that Nicodemus was a Pharisee, and that God is in the business of turning His enemies into His friends.


You quote Paul more then you're redeemer, Paul doesnt deserve all that GLORY. GOD and JESUS do.


I agree Christ deserves all the glory, Paul didn't redeem me, Paul didn't die for my sins. And I quote Christ quite often, but when the discussion is centered on Christian doctrine or the church or how we should conduct ourselves as members of the body of Christ it's really hard not to quote Paul. He wrote more than half the books of the NT. So just on matters of probability it's safe to assume Paul will be quoted much. And secondly, there isn't much spoken by Christ during the New Covenant period. Christ instituted the New Covenant at the last supper the night before he died, and the church wasn't born until Acts chapter 2. And Paul wrote Romans, the most comprehensive and the definitive book on Christian doctrine in the Bible.


That is what I am ademently against. He teach's a 30 second prayer to salvation and thats it. Salvation is only the begging of the narrow path you need to be on. Pauls path is very wide and lazy.


Why does the length of time a salvation prayer is made have any bearing? God looks at the heart, not how long a prayer is. In Luke 18:13-14 Jesus is pointing out two men praying to His apostles, one a self-righteous religious person who "trusted in himself that he was righteous", and the publican who simply prayed "God have mercy on me a sinner" as he beat upon his breast. Christ said in v. 14 that the publican went to his house "justified", and that man's prayer was one sentence. The thief on the cross's statement to Christ was only a sentence as well. Christ told him he would surely be with Him that day in paradise. The length of a prayer is insignificant.


I will be honest with you, I do not see paul as any athourity.


The Lord called Paul to deliver the message to the gentiles.


I also saw that Peter was chosen to be called upon to be the apostle to the gentile's.


Where?


Also Jesus states that there is only 12 gates into the holy city. All named after his apostles. Not 13 but 12, paul is not among them.


I'm not saying Paul is one of the 12.


Also lets talk about pauls conversion story. Luke clearly states 3 different versions. Paul also doesnt offer up a single witness to this event.


So if Luke is a liar in Acts we have to reject all of the gospel of Luke as well.


Paul also seem's to serve 2 master's which Jesus clearly said you could not do. When he was with gentiles he behaved as a gentile and when he was with jews he behaved as a jew.


I think you're talking about Peter. Paul rebuked Peter for doing this. The only thing similar with Paul was his words in 1 Corinthians chapter 9:

"v.19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."



Paul continualy claims to have come in his own name. Which Jesus forsaw ie You reject me and I donot come in my own name. But you will accept another who comes in his own name.


No Paul didn't for one, and for two Christ was speaking of the antichrist, not Paul.


Anything worth haveing entails work. Paul teach's a easy way out, luke warm salvation. Which was not what JESUS taught.


Not true at all, read what Jesus said in John 6:35-40.


If you love something with all you're heart you have a passion and a fire for them. Thats what GOD and JESUS want, a passion through our love for them. Which Jesus taught was the first LAW, LOVE THE FATHER YOU"RE GOD WITH ALL YOU"RE HEART. Didnt Paul call them a curse?


No, in Romans Paul declare that the Law is good, but we are evil. What Paul said was a "curse" was trying to keep the law for justification. That's what Paul said was the curse, not the law itself. And Jesus mocked the Pharisees for worshiping the law and not loving Him. Jeremiah prophesies in the OT that there would be a day when the Old Covenant would be done away with and God would write His law on our hearts. This happened with the New Covenant, we no longer follow by the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law. We follow the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit now, not by our fleshly attempts to keep a list of do's and dont's. Lastly, Paul points out in Galatians that the righteous were always justified by faith and gives the example of Abraham who lived 500 years before the law was given.


LOTZA LUV
P.S. Sorry I am tired and have young one's. I will put verses up tomarrow for you if you wish. I cant go untill 5am like you and JM. Also please donot think I am being disrespectful to you in anyway. I do see you are very passionent as am I. And I do greatly respect you as I respect Jm as well. I do see both of you board hopping.


No offense taken whatsoever. I'm not like some self-professed Christians on this board who see those with different opinions and takes on scripture as hell-bound cult members. The Word says Iron sharpens iron, and I love debating these issues with reasonable minded people like yourself.

God bless.



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I'm not like some self-professed Christians on this board who see those with different opinions and takes on scripture as hell-bound cult members.
So now you are defining who is a Christian? Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing? And this "different opinion" is not just over trivial issues, but salvation and you are teaching people not to obey the law and doing works has nothing to do with being saved because there is no real judgement for anyone who professes Jesus. If your theology was correct, you are doing to me what you deny God will do to anyone who claims Jesus. You place yourself above God and that will send you to hell. But of course, not in you delusional world. One day you will be confronted by reality and you are not going to like it when you are faced with all the lost souls of those who listened to you.

To me a pharisee is: someone who regards written law above spiritual law.
Someone who makes an outward show of keeping those written laws.
You seem to want to change it to where a pharisee is someone who believes in the power of the spirit to transform a person's life so as to be able to follow the dictates of that spiritual law working through their hearts.




edit on 2-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I'm not like some self-professed Christians on this board who see those with different opinions and takes on scripture as hell-bound cult members.
So now you are defining who is a Christian?


No, where do you get that?


Aren't you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing?


No, I've never claimed you were hell-bound.


And this "different opinion" is not just over trivial issues, but salvation and you are teaching people not to obey the law and doing works has nothing to do with being saved because there is no real judgement for anyone who professes Jesus.


Why is it impossible for you to get straight what I actually say? First of all, I showed you by quoting and linking from Adventist.org that my "take" on what the scriptures declare about salvation and Christ's atonement are the same as Adventist.org's positions on these matters. I purposely did that because you said you were a Seventh Day Adventist. Secondly, I've never told nor instructed people "not to obey the law". I've said the law is good, we are bad, we don't obey the law FOR justification, we obey the law because of our justification. We are not saved BY our good works, we are save TO do good works. Do you not understand the fundamental differences there? Justification (salvation as spoken of in the past tense referring to saved from hell), is NOT the finish line reward of our walk with Christ, it's just the beginning!!! For Pete's sake, I even re-clarified this position with you not more than two days ago. Lastly, I've never once said there is no "judgment" for those of us who are in a covenant relationship with Jesus, I said there is "NO CONDEMNATION", which means we will never BE CONDEMNED (Sent to hell). This is in plain English in Romans 8:1. Every Christian is judged, rewards are won or lost, but salvation is never lost. Don't hate me for teaching this, hate Paul. (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

Geesh, and you wonder why I complain so much about people straw manning other people's words.



If your theology was correct, you are doing to me what you deny God will do to anyone who claims Jesus. You place yourself above God and that will send you to hell.


I don't judge anyone's eternal destiny, I'm not Jesus. Can you show me where I've said you're going to hell, or is that another one of your lies about me?


But of course, not in you delusional world.


How edifying...


One day you will be confronted by reality and you are not going to like it when you are faced with all the lost souls of those who listened to you.


I call them as they are presented in the Word of God, I didn't write the book. When it says we are saved by grace alone through faith alone and not of works that's what I believe, the Word of God is my final authority. I don't deny we should do good works, we definitely should, for Christ's glory and the advancement of His kingdom. What I deny is that our works before justification have any bearing whatsoever on God's love in reconciling us to Himself through His Son's work at Calvary. In fact, how exactly can we possibly do a good work apart from the indwelling and leading of the Holy Spirit which is given at the point of justification? The Word declares that our works before the Holy Spirit's leading are all "filthy rags" before a Holy and righteous God.


To me a pharisee is: someone who regards written law above spiritual law.


I agree, someone who follows the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. Love is the fulfillment of the entire law, loving God with all one's heart, mind, and strength and loving one's neighbor as themselves. Love toward God and all men IS the fulfillment of the entire law. THAT is following the spirit of the law and not by the letter of the law. Religious people are modern day Scribes, (the Pharisees were the scribe's puppy dogs following them around trying to be just like them.) Religious people think it's about what you do or don't do, instead of being about what Jesus has already done. Religious people make lists of do's and don't do's and check their good things off and hope their good days offset their bad days, and look at anyone who doesn't follow their made-up lists as evil and bad. Religious people see themselves and Jesus on white horses with white hats, and everyone else on black horses with black hats. Religious people want to share in Christ's glory for justifying (saving) them. They don't think He alone was the all-sufficient savior, that He was impotent to complete the task and needs them to do their part that He couldn't complete at Calvary. That when Jesus said "It is Finished" He really meant,
"I've done my part, now you have to strive diligently to do your's, oh and without the Holy Spirit mind you because He is not gifted to you until the very end of your life when you have accrued enough righteousness to earn His indwelling and leading".


You seem to want to change it to where a pharisee is someone who believes in the power of the spirit to transform a person's life so as to be able to follow the dictates of that spiritual law working through their hearts.


Another straw man at best, lie at worst. That is EXACTLY how we do good works post-justification, by the indwelling and leading of the Holy Spirit. But He isn't given to us before we are justified, but at the point of justification. It is His work that regenerated our heats, that gives us a new nature, that makes us a new creation in Christ Jesus. Salvation from hell is not a reward for our faithfulness, it's a gift of God's goodness and grace. It's not our final goal or the end of the race, it's a gift from God to BEGIN the race. You're busibodying around trying to earn your own justification when God wants you to accept it with humble joy, thank Him, then get busy with the tasks and the works He has for you to advance His Son's kingdom. All it takes to be saved is to call upon the name of the Lord, to ask Him, to acknowledge our sin and need for a Savior because we are impotent to be perfect ourselves. And the Lord says anyone who calls on Him will never be cast out nor ashamed.

Try reading my entire post a few times over so you never again completely twist my position and statements. I'm sick and tired of having to correct you about what I believe.




edit on 2-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Why is it impossible for you to get straight what I actually say?
I quoted right from your post, calling an unnamed person, obviously me, a "self professed" Christian, meaning not a "real" Christian. In doing so, you are judging me when, according to your philosophy, God does not judge anyone who calls on the name of Jesus.
This is hypocrisy of the highest order.
Jesus did not condemn just the Pharisees, but also the hypocrites, but of course this falls on deaf ears, like you said before, because in your delusional world you sit in a seat of Judgement higher than that of God's.


edit on 2-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Why is it impossible for you to get straight what I actually say?
I quoted right from your post, calling an unnamed person, obviously me, a "self professed" Christian, meaning not a "real" Christian.


Aren't we all self-professed Christians? I am. I have to go by what you say, I can't judge your fruit, I don't know it. I can't judge by your works to see if you do indeed have saving faith in Christ as James said.


In doing so, you are judging me when, according to your philosophy, God does not judge anyone who calls on the name of Jesus.


Wow, wake up. We're all self-professed Christians here. lol


This is hypocrisy of the highest order.


No, not at all, you're so self-righteous that you think we should all take you at your word that you're a Christian an not evaluate it Biblically be seeing if you have fruits of the Spirit or evaluating your works to see if you in fact have saving faith.


Jesus did not condemn just the Pharisees, but also the hypocrites, but of course this falls on deaf ears, like you said before, because in your delusional world you sit in a seat of Judgement higher than that of God's.


Yeah, way to completely fly off the handle on a non-issue, we're all self-professed Christians on this board. I am too. Take a pill man, get that rage and self-righteousness addressed, it's not healthy.



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I've never told nor instructed people "not to obey the law". I've said the law is good, we are bad, we don't obey the law FOR justification, we obey the law because of our justification.
There is no official Seventh Day Adventist doctrine like a creed. You may have read a web page with some suggestions but it would be the opinion of that writer and people are not excluded from the church if they do not hold to that. It is perfectly acceptable if one was to say, "We must keep the law perfectly and become completely righteous on an equality of Jesus and go for a year or more without committing a single sin, otherwise we go to hell." That would be ok and others are free to disagree but most do not bother because they realize if anyone wants to try it, well good luck with that.
Justification is based on a Judgement. That is the definition of the word, a verdict, which is the outcome of the judgement, there is no other justification outside a judgement. This is why I rebel against your teaching which you got from someone, but not the Bible. It is righteousness by faith, which is, in this context, the faithfulness of Jesus in obeying the spiritual fundamental law, and the faithfulness of God to honor that faithfulness by being faithful Himself to this contract, which is the New Covenant, where because of this way to salvation, we have a faith which is what guides up into the life to be able to stand this judgement to come but one where Jesus resides being the administrator of the covenent he brought into being.
Faith, and faith, and faith, the three faiths that bring about salvation, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, none of them ours. Our justification is s free gift in that we had no part in the life and death of Jesus or the work of the Father, or the spirit within us, which is not from us. We do and we obey and we become new and as a result, are converted which is the requirement for entering Heaven. An unconverted soul will not enter Heaven.
edit on 2-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

We are not saved BY our good works, we are save TO do good works. Do you not understand the fundamental differences there? Justification (salvation as spoken of in the past tense referring to saved from hell), is NOT the finish line reward of our walk with Christ, it's just the beginning!!! For Pete's sake, I even re-clarified this position with you not more than two days ago. Lastly, I've never once said there is no "judgment" for those of us who are in a covenant relationship with Jesus,
This is all just philosophy.
We, as in the whole world, were redeemed, in order to put us into the New Covenant situation.
This is opposed to, or the opposite of, the old Covenant, which did not have the power to change a person, so as to be able to stop sinning, the old system repeatedly covered sins that kept on being committed.
You make something which is no judgement, and substitute it in to replace a real judgement, then just change the definition of a judgement.



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Justification is based on a Judgement. That is the definition of the word, a verdict, which is the outcome of the judgement, there is no other justification outside a judgement. This is why I rebel against your teaching which you got from someone, but not the Bible.


Let me explain something to you. I use the term "justification" to refer to "Salvation". Because the *gasp* Bible speaks of the term Salvation in 3 different tenses. The past, the present, and the future tenses. It's called the "3 P's of Salvation" in Systematic Theology.

Past Tense (Justification): Christ's work "saving us" from the Panalty for sin.

Present Tense (Sanctification): The Holy Spirit "saving us" from the Power of sin in our lives daily.

Future Tense (Glorification): The Father "saving us" from the Presence of sin in our mortal bodies when He raises us up with a sinless incorruptible one.

I use the term "justification" to refer to the commonly used term of "Salvation" that people toss around lightly, when the Bible uses the term in 3 different tenses to speak of 3 different works of God done at 3 different points of time in a believer's lifetime. I don't like when people use the term "Salvation" to only refer to the work Christ did at Calvary saving us from Hell be taking our sins upon Himself and dying for them. That's merely Justification, we are justified (reconciled to) God because our sins have been atoned for. When we repent and seek forgiveness God declares in His Word that He "remembers them no more".

I believe Him.




edit on 2-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

When it says we are saved by grace alone through faith alone and not of works that's what I believe, the Word of God is my final authority. I don't deny we should do good works, we definitely should, for Christ's glory and the advancement of His kingdom. What I deny is that our works before justification have any bearing whatsoever on God's love in reconciling us to Himself through His Son's work at Calvary.
Works could be thought of as deeds.
Think of the one who comes to Jesus in the last day saying, "Did I not do miracles in your name?"
That would be a work.
Jesus is not interested in that, he is interested in if that person is converted.
He says, "Get away from me, Ye worker of iniquity."
This person still had his old sinful nature and had never been converted.
There is another kind of faith which is a personal faith, more like a belief, where by this faith, they see themselves being passed trough judgement with a positive verdict so that through this vision into the future, they see themselves as having been saved.



posted on Aug, 2 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Religious people think it's about what you do or don't do, instead of being about what Jesus has already done.
Paul spent a lot of time giving lists of instructions to the Christians and that is because people need certain guidelines as to what is acceptable. If you live in the TV pop culture world, you would have almost no good guidelines to follow. For example, you go down a path and you get to a fork and you read the signs, then you use your powers of perception and your judgement to know what to do next. What if you got there and found instead of a sign, the Cheshire Cat? You would be in trouble, then. What you call religion is the sign, otherwise you get the cat and can't make a choice because you do not know what to choose between.



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