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The Holy Spirit is my Proof

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posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:46 AM
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Romans 10:13 ~ "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved ."


Acts 2:21 ~ "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Mark 16:16 ~ "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 1:12 ~ “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.”

Acts 16:30-31 ~ "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, BelieveWhite]Text White on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.



Whosoever includes me and you and everyone else. Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can be saved, but shall be saved.




posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Paul says, what good is speaking which no one understands?


It's not profitable to the church unless there is an interpreter. Some have the gift of interpretation. (1 Cor. 12) Paul said he would sing normally and sing in the Spirit. He would pray normally and pray in the Spirit. Paul says he not only speaks with the tongues of men but "also" the tongues "of angels". (1 Corinthians 13:1) Paul said people who speak in this angelic tongue don't speak to men, but only to God. (1 Corinthians 14:2). Paul also says that "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself" (1 Cor. 14:4), so the unknown tongue of angels to God is "edification" for that believer themselves.
Well this is getting very interesting.
Let me quote the verse:
The one who speaks in a tongue builds himself up, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

You, as usual, instead of a direct quote, give your interpretation. Building oneself up is not necessarily a good thing. Otherwise, Paul may have said something like, Don't worry about making sense and building up the group, let's all just build ourselves up. There is something going on here where maybe Paul would like these people to just keep it to themselves.


"Edify"


Greek = "oikodomeō"

Definition:


1) to build a house, erect a building
a) to build (up from the foundation)
b) to restore by building, to rebuild, repair
2) metaph.
a) to found, establish
b) to promote growth in Christian wisdom, affection, grace, virtue, holiness, blessedness
c) to grow in wisdom and piety


Blue Letter Bible Online



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You're mocking and slighting our judgment before the Lord for rewards of loss thereof.
You are doing it again, but now that you mention it, I would like to take this opportunity to slight it, but what I meant was that a judgement is not a judgement if the outcome is preordained. As for slighting, I already said this is a fantasy you have adopted from somewhere to explain away all the verses that clearly describe a judgement of life and death for believers as well as non-believers.



Wrong again:


"10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, 10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

1 Corinthians 3:10-15



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You see heaven as the goal, as the finish line. Heaven and eternal life in Christ is the starting line. It's the beginning. Salvation is easy, it take simple faith like a child. Sanctification and glorification is a lifelong process and takes dedication, faithful service to the Lord, and a great deal of love.
This is either a bunch of nonsense or another theory. You are creating a fact and presenting it as being real when there is nothing real about it. It is a self delusion which you have created for yourself for one reason or another but it is no self evident truth. You need to be sanctified, right now. You are to be holy, right now. You are to be sinless, right now. Glorification comes later, so don't be mixing these things up. Eternal life is the reward and not stars in your crown or whatever other rubbish is in your delusion.
If you have the slightest, tiny bit of sin in your life, you need to be praying untill it goes away. Be healed of that thing right now and stop making excuses for yourself because you will not enter heaven taking that sin with you.


edit on 1-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Because perhaps you've presented no Biblical; support for your theory. I'll go with Paul's words. No offense.
Let me quote your earlier post where you present your theory.

The Greek term is "Bema" or "Bhema" which is a term for "judgment" in English that fits more with a judge of a sporting event for the purpose of rewards. Olympians in Greece were judged for gold, silver, and bronze from judges on a "Bema" seat. The term for the judgment of the dead at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on Earth, when the dead are resurrected is a different Greek word than "Bema", it translates as "crisis" and correlates with a judge at a trial. The dead's works are judged at this different judgment. In Revelation this judgment happens on Earth and at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ. This is the resurrection and judgment of "the dead", which is an alegorical term used throughout the Bible for the wicked, the condemned, those spiritually dead.
It is a bunch of theory and there are no quotes from Paul. I looked at every quote any of those people on their blogs you linked to had and there was only one verse that could even remotely linked the way you try to do, and that was obviously not about any arena or anything else or that it was anything like a public venue.
The real quotes are the ones I gave you before which you ignored, I guess because you did not like them and wanted to make them go away or something.







One of the prominent doctrines of the New Testament is the Doctrine of Rewards and the Judgment Seat of Christ. It is a doctrine often ignored or, when taught, it is misrepresented because of the term “judgment” that is used in translating the Greek text. Commenting on this Samuel Hoyt writes:

Within the church today there exists considerable confusion and debate regarding the exact nature of the examination at the judgment seat of Christ. The expression “the judgment seat of Christ” in the English Bible has tended to cause some to draw Text Redthe wrong conclusion about the nature and purpose of this evaluation. A common misconception which arises from this English translation is that God will mete out a just retribution for sins in the believer’s life, and some measure of retributive punishment for sins will result.

As it will be shown below, though it is tremendously serious with eternal ramifications, the judgment seat of Christ is Text Rednot a place and time when the Lord will mete out punishment for sins committed by the child of God. Rather, it is a place where rewards will be given or lost depending on how one has used his or her life for the Lord."


Doctrine of Rewards/Bema Seat of Christ



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You see heaven as the goal, as the finish line. Heaven and eternal life in Christ is the starting line. It's the beginning. Salvation is easy, it take simple faith like a child. Sanctification and glorification is a lifelong process and takes dedication, faithful service to the Lord, and a great deal of love.
This is either a bunch of nonsense or another theory. You are creating a fact and presenting it as being real when there is nothing real about it. It is a self delusion which you have created for yourself for one reason or another but it is no self evident truth. You need to be sanctified, right now. You are to be holy, right now. You are to be sinless, right now. Glorification comes later, so don't be mixing these things up. Eternal life is the reward and not stars in your crown or whatever other rubbish is in your delusion.
If you have the slightest, tiny bit of sin in your life, you need to be praying untill it goes away. Be healed of that thing right now and stop making excuses for yourself because you will not enter heaven taking that sin with you.



Ummm, read much?:


Sanctification and glorification is a lifelong process and takes dedication, faithful service to the Lord, and a great deal of love.


Who said anything about not repenting of sin in my life? Repentance should be a daily thing we do by the leading and conviction of the Holy Spirit. Paul said he sinned a lot. I'm not nearly as holy as Paul,not by a long shot. Perhaps you are though. Our rewards/crowns are going to be thrown to the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ.







edit on 1-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You believe in works righteousness, I adhere to gifted righteousness. How's being prefect working out for you?
Right, you believe in a delusion and I believe in something real. Being perfect is great and I recommend it to everyone. How is being a sinner working out for you?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:05 AM
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Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven”

Matthew 10:32




Thank you Jesus. Praise the Lord.
edit on 1-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You believe in works righteousness, I adhere to gifted righteousness. How's being prefect working out for you?
Right, you believe in a delusion and I believe in something real. Being perfect is great and I recommend it to everyone. How is being a sinner working out for you?



You have no sin? You're sinless? That's amazing, even Paul admitted to rampant sin in his life. No, if you think you have no sin you are "self deluded". You're lost in your self-righteousness. You're a modern day scribe. My faith and trust is in Jesus alone, not myself, I'm a sinner. I repent daily.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Yes, I'm referring to the last half of Luke 18. He says the same. That a person who wants to do works to inherit eternal life has to be perfect. The apostles even ask how it's possible that anyone at all can be saved. Jesus goes on to say it's "impossible" for man to be perfect, but with God all things are possible. God saves us. It's a work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating us. A work of Christ for His sacrifice. And a works of the father in sanctifying us and predestinating us to conform to the image of Christ.
No.
This is not the verse I was quoting and you are just making a bunch of stuff up.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Yeah JM, sorry, your claims are falling on deaf ears. I'm sure Paul didn't mean that anyone who utters those words have the Holy Spirit.
Then why did you cite the verse if it has nothing to do with what you were talking about?
And you apparently are good at having deaf ears.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Romans 10:13 ~ "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved ."
Acts 2:21 ~ "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Mark 16:16 ~ "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
John 1:12 ~ “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.”
Acts 16:30-31 ~ "And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, BelieveWhite]Text White on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Whosoever includes me and you and everyone else. Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can be saved, but shall be saved.
You are adding your own words here. (as usual)
First off Mark 16:16 is not in my Bible and if it is in yours, you should chuck it.

Romans 10:13 is quoting Joel and it means gentiles are invited.

Acts 2:21 Another quote from Joel and the last people still standing at the end of the world will call out to God and be saved, which they basically already are since everyone else is dead at this point.

John 1:12 "power to become" which goes against your commentary.

Acts 16:30,31 The story is about when Paul and Silas were in Jail and they were having a conversation with the jailer. So it is not going to launch into a full sermon so the story includes the necessary thing to be emphasised that it starts with believing in Jesus and it continues that they stayed up all night explaining it to him and it seems the jailer's family, too. So if it was just those few words then why all the long hours afterwords. Why not, Paul said just believe, then Paul went to sleep?

edit on 1-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Wrong again:
So?
You give a big quote, meaning what?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Our rewards/crowns are going to be thrown to the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ.
So why all the bema nonsense?
Just to explain away the judgement?



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

You have no sin? You're sinless?
Putting words in my mouth again (as usual).


I repent daily.
You have your own delusional definition of repentance, then.
You need to look up the word. It means to change your mind. Seems you never changed if you have to do it every day. That is not true repentance. That is worthless crying or complaining or begging or something but you just have no motivation probably because you killed the Holy Spirit that told you you have to be good.


edit on 1-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Yes, I'm referring to the last half of Luke 18. He says the same. That a person who wants to do works to inherit eternal life has to be perfect. The apostles even ask how it's possible that anyone at all can be saved. Jesus goes on to say it's "impossible" for man to be perfect, but with God all things are possible. God saves us. It's a work of the Holy Spirit in regenerating us. A work of Christ for His sacrifice. And a works of the father in sanctifying us and predestinating us to conform to the image of Christ.
No.
This is not the verse I was quoting and you are just making a bunch of stuff up.




Naaaa, I can't take credit for writing Luke chapter 18.



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Yeah JM, sorry, your claims are falling on deaf ears. I'm sure Paul didn't mean that anyone who utters those words have the Holy Spirit.
Then why did you cite the verse if it has nothing to do with what you were talking about?
And you apparently are good at having deaf ears.



You missed the point completely. The Word of God says "no man" can say Jesus is Lord. (Effectively acknowledging His Lordship) without the Holy Spirit. If a person is magnifying Christ as Lord it's from the Holy Spirit within them. Man cannot do this by himself, the Holy Spirit graces man with that revelation.

"He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven." ~ Matthew 16:15-17

Thief on the cross acknowledged Christ's Lordship and was immediately told him that he was saved:


"And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. " ~ Luke 23:42



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



First off Mark 16:16 is not in my Bible and if it is in yours, you should chuck it.



Yeah, I'm not interested in Alexandrian texts that you own. The Gnostics expurgated a great deal of the text that they didn't like. A lot more verses than Mark 16:16 are removed. I stick with the manuscripts that originated from Antioch, Syria. The Bible says they were the first "Christians", Peter later took the headquarters for their ministry there from Jerusalem.

You have a Bible written from corrupt manuscripts from Egyptian/Greek Gnostics. Irenaeus quotes from these "missing" verses in his NT commentary from the first century. Meaning when the Alexandrian codices were created in the 4th century those verses Irenaeus quoted are missing from the text. Hypolateus also quotes from these "missing " verses.


edit on 1-8-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 04:09 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

I'm guilty. I'm in the "Jesus Christ is Lord, He is my redeemer, He is my Savior, King, and High Priest, glory to the King of kings, and Lord of lords, my soul has been redeemed by Christ" cult.
Hmm, interesting you would say that. Let's see what cult that may be. Do a google for "my soul has been redeemed by Christ" and see what comes up. #1.) "I don’t have to be judged? I don’t have to go to hell. I don’t have to be lost. My soul has been redeemed. I’m going to Heaven, but I've got to first repent of my sin and receive Christ as my Lord and my Savior."
Sounds like your cult alright, no judgement and none of those nasty good works, great!
#2.) is a song, "He turned my life around placed my feet on solid ground
Turned my darkness in to day I'm so happy I can say"
Seems ok enough, no doctrine, really.
#4.) and #5 are more songs. #6 a pamphlet on hints for winning souls but no doctrine or verses and don't se why it was even a hit. #7&8 more songs. #9 a blog about the earthquake in Japan but the word redeemed is lost in the comments somewhere. #10, 11, 12 more songs.
After that, other than songs, nothing where all the words are together.
Hmm, So it looks like Mr. NuT is a member of a cult that has a theology based on lines from hymns.
OK, to be fair, I can do a Bible word search and see if anything comes up.
Galatians 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we may be adopted as sons with full rights.
(This seems to be some unexplained legal terminology that has to do with rights that a person has when they become a certain age. Not sure what it means but it seems to have something to do with the Jews.)
Luke 1:68 1:68 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, because he has come to help and has redeemed his people.
(Again it seems to apply to the Jews.)
Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”
(It goes on in the next verse that this was done) "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith."
Titus 2:14 He gave himself for us to set us free from every kind of lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are truly his, who are eager to do good.
(So, far the only use of the word redeemed in the NT is referring to group redemption.)
Revelation 14:4b These were redeemed from humanity as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb,
(Again a group.)
1 Peter1 (seems to be addressing an entire group, the gentiles who came out of the idolatry, called by the apostles.) "but, like the Holy One who called you, become holy yourselves in all of your conduct, for it is written, “You shall be holy, because I am holy.” And if you address as Father the one who impartially judges according to each one’s work, live out the time of your temporary residence here in reverence. You know that from your empty way of life inherited from your ancestors you were ransomed – not by perishable things like silver or gold, but by precious blood like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb, namely Christ."
(So it looks like the same thing Paul was saying to the Galatians.)
Hebrews 9:15 And so he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance he has promised, since he died to set them free from the violations committed under the first covenant.
(Another group thing.)
Hebrews 12:23 and congregation of the firstborn, who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous, who have been made perfect,
(The word, congregation is the clue here.)
Revelation 5:9 They were singing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals because you were killed, and at the cost of your own blood you have purchased for God persons from every tribe, language, people, and nation.
(Again a really big group.)
The cult that Mr. NuT belongs to seems to be one that creates nice biblical sounding slogans without understanding what the verses that the words were extracted from mean.
I think Hebrews is where it is best explained what happened. The ransom was what Jesus did to get rid of the Old Covenant and to bring in the New Testament.
edit on 1-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Our rewards/crowns are going to be thrown to the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ.
So why all the bema nonsense?
Just to explain away the judgement?







Ugggggh, I really hate repeating myself. Once again.......

No one is "explaining" away judgment. I'm stating that there are different judgments spoken of in scripture. Believers are judged on their works not their sins. Rewards are won or lost, salvation is not. That's from PAUL not me. There is also a "sheep and goats" judgment immediately prior to Christ's millennial reign to determine who enters the kingdom and who is cast into hell for having the marks of the beast or persecuting the elect. the "great white throne" judgment transpires at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ. It's the resurrection and judgment of the "dead", the wicked and ungodly from Cain to satan and the antichrist. All are cast into the lake of fire who are not found in the book of life. People who do not have a covenant relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

The "judgment seat (bema in Greek) is the judgment for believers who have a covenant relationship with Jesus, and worthless works (wood, hay, and stubble) are "burnt up" and rewards are lost. Works done through the Holy Spirit and for God's glory and Jesus's kingdom are rewarded. no person at this Bema judgment goes to hell, even if all their works are burnt when tried with fire.

1. "Judgment Seat (Bema) of Christ" happens after the rapture of the church, takes place in heaven prior to the marriage supper of the lamb. Those who lost their rewards are cast into "utter darkness" and are not allowed to participate in the marriage supper.

2. "Sheep and Goats Judgment" happens when Christ comes back with His bride and the angels to Earth and happens immediately after the battle of Armageddon and just prior to the advent of His 1,000 year reign on the "throne of David".

3. "Great White Throne Judgment" Revelation says this judgment happens after the 1,000 reign, after satan is loosed from his banishment, the "dead" are resurrected at this point and judged, those who lived during the 1,000 year eign are also judged. Angels are judged by us at this judgment.

All different judgments, at different times, with different people, and different outcomes. You drag them all together when the text says otherwise.



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