It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


"We Don't Need New Taxes, We Need New Taxpayers"

page: 4
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in


posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by debunky

He multiplied 10 with 35%.
I wouldn't be suprised if in neo96s world "making 10 million" actually means a turnover of 10 million...

I was wondering about that because the international cartels have been lessing their tax burden in various ways and moving their share over it to the wage earners.

In the chart Excise (import tax) and Corporate tax decrease while Payroll (SS + medicare + medicaid) increases and straight income tax has more or less increased slightly.

With the blasted "FREE TRADE" agreements raising corporate taxes just drives more of the international players overseas and gives them a bigger competitive advantage over anyone still operating solely in the USA. (Small business)

Therefore repealing the free trade agreements AND raising excise tax BACK to 20%
would fix the problem quite nicely

The goal is to preserve our job makers, small business, from the predatory cartels that ALL of us, libs, centralists and conservatives should dislike.



A treaty can be nullified by a statute passed by the U.S. Congress (or by a sovereign State or States if Congress refuses to do so), when the State deems the performance of a treaty is self-destructive.

The law of self-preservation overrules the law of obligation in others. When you've read this thoroughly, hopefully, you will never again sit quietly by when someone -- anyone -- claims that treaties supercede the Constitution. Help to dispel this myth.

"This [Supreme] Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty." - Reid v. Covert, October 1956, 354 U.S. 1, at pg 17.


edit on 27-7-2011 by crimvelvet because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:10 PM
reply to post by negativenihil

For the Nth time - The only people who avoid paying all taxes are infants and the dead. If you consume on any level, you're paying taxes...

Hopefully every one is aware of the "Hidden TAX" problem, if not...

"A third of the cost of a gallon of gas is tax, half the cost of a pack of cigarettes and last I checked (20 years ago), there were 109 different taxes on a loaf of bread before you paid sales tax on the loaf and carried it home.' - JB Williams

"If people need any more concrete explanation of this, start with the staff of life, a loaf of bread. The simplest thing; the poorest man must have it. Well, there are 151 taxes now in the price of a loaf of bread — it accounts for more than half the cost of a loaf of bread. It begins with the first tax, on the farmer that raised the wheat..." - President Ronald Reagan

Depending on how you do the calculations you can get anywhere from 30% and up on that loaf of bread.

I noticed that no one ever bothers to include Monsanto who sold the seed, or John Deere who sold the tractor and implements or the grain elevators where the grain is stored, or the grain traders who bought the wheat and sold it to the milling company, or all the tax on the hauling companies that moved the seed and grain and the farmers equipment around. Or the mining company or the steel foundry... gets real complicated doesn't it

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 12:48 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

Regressive taxes are the worst. When you look at the big picture, the poor pay a higher total percentage, when you count sales, property taxes.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

i cant give you a link for that its simple math man.

the more you make the more you pay in taxes and no matter what people say things like

"the rich dont pay their fair share"

state+federal every single person and business pays those and dependent on what state you live in it varies.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:16 PM
reply to post by DaWhiz

social security medicare medicaid and insurance are the biggest legal rip offs in this county.

they all work by first in first out and pay from people who dont use them to pay for everyone else who is.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 01:27 PM
You do know the rich aren't really taxed.. If you have money you dont really have a job with a paycheck, you have investments, the tax on the profits from these investments, the profit that is not dropped through some loophole is taxed at 15%. Taxes are differed taxes are avoided or taxes are obfuscated. That is why teh ruling class spends so much to keep the status quo, (they are a little nervous right now because the tea party is shooting itself in the foot) on the other hand if we default as a nation -- the smart money is set up to sell short -- basically betting against the country.

I tire of hearing about the people who don't pay tax - basically because they are incapable of or otherwise unable to make enough to basically survive.

The wealth is being distributed - it is being distributed from the bottom to the top - that is why we have the wealth divide of a freaking banana republic or some third world dictator ship.

Wealth redistribution bull -- reverse Robin Hood is more like it. Rob the poor to fatten the rich,

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:35 PM
reply to post by ventian

Thanks for the reply but be careful of your post. That 1 percent is based on sales, not profit; profit is all wall street cares about.

Thanks for the heads up. I saw that last night but was going to see what the study itself contained.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 02:44 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

dont know if this is worthy of what you consider a good and reliable link but it was what i was talking about earlier.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 03:52 PM
reply to post by neo96

i cant give you a link for that its simple math man....

Actually it is not.

Regular wage earners, Sole Proprietors and LLCs are taxed as "individual tax payers" Profits from the business entity passes through to the owners and are taxed the same as wages (Small Business types)

With the second class, "S" corporations or family corporations, again profits more or less pass through to the owners and are taxed as wages of "individual tax payers" The taxes are more complicated and your Accountant is going to soak you for triple the fees compared to a Sole Proprietorship (at least mine did)

The last classification is CORPORATIONS these are what most people think of as a "corporation" A business entity owned by a large group of people called stockholders.

With a corporation, the entity or corporation itself is taxed, and then the residual profits passed on to the stockholders and are taxed as dividends.

The chart I showed was for wage earners and did not include corporations since they are a completely different tax class.

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 04:26 PM
reply to post by spyder550

The wealth is being distributed - it is being distributed from the bottom to the top - that is why we have the wealth divide of a freaking banana republic or some third world dictator ship.

Wealth redistribution bull -- reverse Robin Hood is more like it. Rob the poor to fatten the rich,

Unfortunately I have to agree. However taxes have little to do with it. Taxes are part of the shell game and have an ENTIRELY different reason for existing than we think.
I just found that out.

The Reverse Robin Hood Scheme

(great name BTW )

We lose our wealth from wage devaluation and price inflation. THE REAL source of theft of our wealth. At the same time our wages were devalued, the price of goods was inflated thanks to taxes and the increased money supply but mainly the increase in the money supply.

In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker.

Here is a money supply/gold/wage chart:
Date...$ /oz gold.. Money supply.....min. wage.....min wage - gold....CEO pay - gold
1976 ......124.74 ........ $113 billion.......$2.30.....................0.0184 oz............0.663.oz
2008 .....880.30......... $831 billion........$5.85.....................0.0066 oz.............2.44.oz
2009...1,020.28.........$1663 billion........$6.55.....................0.0064.oz.

Note the FED printed an additional $718 billion dollars between 1976 and 2008. The price of gold indicates the steady devaluation of the US dollar as its purchasing power is diluted by the ever increasing supply of fiat money. We are talking a factor of seven or so that is 7 X $124.74/oz = $873.18/oz pretty darn close to $880.30/oz.

Have our wages increased by a factor of seven??? were they $16.10 in 2008 were they $32 dollars in 2009 when the FED doubled the money supply in a single year???

The Average credit card debt per household is $14,687 this does not include education loans, car loans and house mortgages. 97% of the US money supply is in the form of banks loans.- Interesting that the US dollar has lost 96% of its value since the Federal Reserve Act.

So what do we get in return for our obligation to pay all those loans with money we earn through our labor??? The US banks are now operating on an effective ZERO reserve In other words they loan us NOTHING and the entire US is paying INTEREST on 97% of the US money supply! On June 1st 2011,the money supply was $2647.969 BILLION. The banks are earning interest on $2568.53 billion dollars!

if you have any doubts at all about the CRIMINAL INTENT of those who conspired on Jekyll Island to bring about the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. Here are the words of the organizer, Nelson W. Aldrich one of the greatest traitors in the history of the USA.

Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none is so effectual as that which deludes them with paper money. It is the most perfect expedient ever invented for fertilizing the rich man’s fields by the sweat of the poor man’s brow. Ordinary tyranny, oppression, excessive taxation, these bear lightly on the happiness of the community compared with fraudulent currencies and the robberies committed by depreciated paper. [inflation cv] Our own history has recorded enough, and more than enough, of the demoralizing tendency, the injustice and intolerable oppression on the virtuous and well disposed, of a degraded paper currency, authorized by law, or in any way countenanced by Government. ~Nelson W. Aldrich, United States Senator, at a New York City dinner speech on October 15, 1913 IV Proceedings of the Academy of Political Science #1, at 38 (Columbia University, New York (1914)). [He was quoting Andrew Jackson. cv]

posted on Jul, 27 2011 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by spyder550

In the last post I mentioned the income tax amendment had a purpose besides funding the government.

This is part of the article on why we have not ended up with hyper-inflation AND why we have the income tax. I am covering the hyperinflation part too since I figure ATSers will be interested.

...Given the previous hyperinflation, clearly there was ample reason for currency revulsion. So you can consider this argument a necessary but not sufficient precondition.

What makes the universal acceptance stick is that government accepts its own money to expunge liabilities to it. In plain English, fiat money has value because it is the only money you can use to pay taxes.

....The fact that this money is also the medium of exchange only entrenches its use.

So the tax liability is a necessary pre-condition for fiat currency to work, something I will return to....

[No wonder Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified was Ratified 2/3/1913, a couple months after the Federal Reserve Act. cv]

Weimar Germany 1919-1923

The key to Weimar's hyperinflation was two-fold.

1. The German government had a large foreign currency debt obligation.
2. The German economy lost huge amounts of productive capacity causing prices to soar as demand outstripped supply....


While the facts in Zimbabwe are different, the underlying causes for hyperinflation were the same: foreign currency obligations and a loss of productive capacity.

Zimbabwe had established Independence from Britain in 1980. Yet, by the late 1990s 70% of productive arable land was still held by the small minority 1% of white farmers in the country. After years of talk about redistribution, in 2000, the President Robert Mugabe began to redistribute this land.

The redistribution process was a disaster, .... With agricultural production having plummeted, Zimbabwe was forced to pay to import food in hard currency.

Meanwhile, the government turned to the printing presses to fulfil its domestic obligations. as in Germany, the foreign currency obligations, the loss of productive capacity and the money printing was a toxic brew which ended in hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation in the USA, May 2010

As you can see from the two most severe cases of hyperinflation, the problem in each case was a loss of productive capacity, foreign currency liabilities, and a loss of the ability to tax....

In the German example, the Germans had a huge foreign currency liability that it had to pay, meaning it could not make good on the liability by printing money. It was a currency user as far as these liabilities went. Meanwhile, with productive capacity limited, the government was then unable to ease price pressure through the tax lever. The shortage of goods drove up prices inexorably and the government was forced to turn to the printing press in order to meet its domestic obligations.

In the Zimbabwe example, taxes were again central. Unable to recoup enough tax revenue and with large foreign currency obligations and a loss of productive capacity, the government resorted to printing money in an environment where prices were rising.

So, hyperinflation has very specific preconditions that are not apparent in the U.S..

1. No foreign currency liability: The U.S. dollar is the world's reserve currency so the U.S. can pay for trade goods in U.S. dollars.. The U.S. does not have a peg to gold or some other currency which acts as a de facto foreign currency liability. And the U.S. government has substantially no foreign currency liabilities. All of the debt is issued in domestic currency.

2. Price pressures are still anchored: While commodity prices are rising, they are rising in all currencies, not just in USD. Moreover, their rise will create demand destruction before any hyperinflation could occur. Why? Unemployment is high and capacity utilization is low, meaning there are no inflationary pressures on that front to help push inflation higher before demand destruction sets in.

3. Currency revulsion has not set in: Tax compliance is high in the U.S. We are not talking about Russia, Greece or Argentina where government has had a difficult time in raising tax. Moreover, as the USD is still the world's reserve currency, there has been no freefall sell off of dollars, nor do I anticipate any in the near-to-medium term.

In short, there will be no hyperinflation in the U.S. any time soon....

new topics

top topics

<< 1  2  3   >>

log in