Dutchsinse vs USGS

reply to post by ChungTsuU

Really?
Seems pretty normal.
The same thing was happening in the same area this time last year.
Go here and go to the lower right to see the archive.
www.wunderground.com...

Try 7/24 - 7/26/2010, 7/15/2009

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Well, some of his followers call themselves "Dutchnation"

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by ChungTsuU

 

Really?
Seems pretty normal.
The same thing was happening in the same area this time last year.
Go here and go to the lower right to see the archive.
www.wunderground.com...

Try 7/24 - 7/26/2010

edit on 7/26/2011 by Phage because: (no reason given)

i like this site too,,,

weather.cod.edu...

its handy.

reply to post by Phage


Phage:

BTW, I am not putting forth a case in favor of Mr. Dutch Sinse.

Sorry, you can not use Santa Ana. I know you are smarter than that!

Santa Ana is on the wrong side of the mountains. There is a marked difference in dew points and ambient temperatures because of this geologic feature. Different climate zones, i.e. Mediterranean and Desert.

This in turn creates the extreams that in the fall influence the beloved Santa Ana winds. On shore/off shore winds.

Let us use Barstow and Needles, they are in the area in question, one on the west-side, one on the east-side.

www.wunderground.com...
www.wunderground.com...

Dew Point 26 °F (Barstow), Dew Point 51 °F (Needles), admittedly that is a good high dew point for the Mojave.

But see the difference in dew point 26 to 51...That is the difference here in the desert.

I am not seeing the geographic mechanism for lifting to trigger this along, with the appropriate dew point.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

reply to post by Phage


Thank you for that video and yes, I realize that storms can pop up seemingly from nowhere and yes, the tops would be blown up and away, BUT I just can't ever recall seeing one form in this particular fashion from such a small point on more than one day and for different, more educated reasons, it seems that Chung also shares some suspicion that this may not be weather. If it is, it certainly appears to be an anomaly. I'm not trying to make a case for Dutch either...I've seen some of his videos.

Ok,post a satellite vid of the plume,from GOES or others,
at the time of the "incident" with a matching radar image
at the said time and place it happened and be done with it.
I ain't doing it cause I just don't feel like it.

The Pisgah crater had no visual activity and no seismic activity. It is located within the Lavic Lake volcanic feild

The Lavic Lake volcanic field was considered to contain four Holocene cinder cones, three in the Lavic Lake area and a fourth in the Rodman Mountains 20 km to the west (Miller 1989). Pisgah Crater, a 100-m-high cinder cone, is the most prominent feature of the basaltic lava field.

Pisgah, California

Because of the fresh nature of these flows Pisgah's activity is considered to have been recent

A review of the images provided within the above links for the Pisgah and Sunshine Peak lava flows reveals relatively recent flows, probably the youngest I've seen in California outside of the flows that exist within the Owens Valley region on the Eastern Sierra Nevadan slopes.

The abstract Lava Tubes of Pisgah points out that the flows of this volcano were rapid flowing, which created many lava tube cavities, some measuring 450 ft. in length. This means that this cone is pervious and most notably saturated with water.

The Lavic Lake volcanic field remains UNDATED. Speculation therefore is the only scientific method available to us. When Dutchsinse posted his very first alert on Pisgah Crater, I speculated that a magma chamber still remained close to the surface there and it was thermal convection current from this magma that created the rapid cloud formation as the low pressure weather front from the cyclone in the Gulf of Mexico made its north bound arrival at that location.

The U.S.G.S. anouncement released in response to Dutchsinse stated that Dutchsinse misinterperated the data ("Dr. John Eichelberger, program coordinator of volcano hazards for USGS, said the video didn’t appear to be a hoax, but rather a misinterpretation of the data."(as a volcanic plume)), when instead a closer explanation as to what happened was thermal convection (from a magma chamber that's sending hydrothermal energy skywards via sporatic hydrothermal venting) combining with a dense low pressure weather front that created a rapid plume af charged condensation to form (picture the same happening at a electrical cogeneration plant).

Note of interest: the Dagget Marine Corps base is located near this location. Bechtel has an 'expirimental' redirected lens (1500 mirrors) photovoltaic plant there that, too, could have created enough focused thermal convection to have caused this event as well...

reply to post by Heyyo_yoyo


Well there ya go...thermal convection or hydrothermal venting. This makes a lot more sense to me since the radar image seemed to originate from such a small point. Thank you Heyyo. You cleared it up

reply to post by ChungTsuU

Yes, I realized that Santa Ana and Barstow are in different regimes. I was not talking about the station data, I was talking about the radar data.

The radar data looks like convective precipitation. The same sort of convective precipitation seen in the same area at the same time of year in the past.

Convective activity does not require a geographic mechanism. It requires a suitable lapse rate. The GOES upper air data for Twenty Nine Palms (pretty close) shows the required instability and no inversion layer. Hot on the surface (31ºC), cool above (9º at about 11,000 feet). A lapse rate of about 2.6º. The rocky, hilly terrain would enhance thermal triggering.
www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov...

BTW, this (from a local) also seems to indicate convective activity.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Phage



From Heyyo_yoyo:

"The abstract Lava Tubes of Pisgah points out that the flows of this volcano were rapid flowing, which created many lava tube cavities, some measuring 450 ft. in length. This means that this cone is pervious and most notably saturated with water.

The Lavic Lake volcanic field remains UNDATED. Speculation therefore is the only scientific method available to us. When Dutchsinse posted his very first alert on Pisgah Crater, I speculated that a magma chamber still remained close to the surface there and it was thermal convection current from this magma that created the rapid cloud formation as the low pressure weather front from the cyclone in the Gulf of Mexico made its north bound arrival at that location. "

This I can put into the equation, and I feel you and I can each say the middle is a nice place to be!

Have you heard of anyone putting such as the above from Heyyo_yoyo into a model?

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

P.S.

I was hoping that "Dora" would come up the Sea of Cortez and hammer S. AZ.

reply to post by Heyyo_yoyo


Thank you for this information!

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Always diligent! ~Nameste~

Hey Phage, looks like we agreed on something! jk

reply to post by Heyyo_yoyo

Well, not exactly.

I don't see anything from the USGS about geothermal activity being the cause or any such activity in the region. And there was no weather front.

I'm saying it's weather. Localized convective (from sunlight heating the ground) weather.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Heyyo_yoyo

 

Well, not exactly.

I don't see anything from the USGS about geothermal activity being the cause or any such activity in the region. And there was no weather front.

I'm saying it's weather. Localized convective (from sunlight heating the ground) weather.

WOW...um jeez....

Probability of water being trapped underground in the tubes = geology?

Am I missing something? Water on the surface would equal transvaporation, values that we can go measure.

Sounds like a grant opportunity here to me! What are our operational definitions in this discussion?

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

I did not read through all the responses, however, I take him with a grain of salt, just as I do any other forecaster. He was pretty accurate with his tornado locations before they hit, a day if not two before any weather station. Was he always right?..NO! But he sure gave more advanced warning than any other news weather you could have watched in the areas that were hit. So if you're in an area that he predicts any bad weather, take notice..he COULDbe right.

USGS is a government website. Its as reliable as Obama is. I have seen USGS censor info before. Maybe everything doesn't get posted. Don't know. I do know that if a hot spot rift formed, it's not a good omen and it will be obvious within a couple weeks.

reply to post by Hillbilly123069

It would have been obvious three days ago.
I-40 runs right through the area.

reply to post by Phage


i don't think many would notice a plume of vapor from 2.5 miles away. (WOW look at that cloud)

3 days in a row as well....from a single point....the same point...

reply to post by BadBoYeed

Water vapor.

Funny the way he changed the story to "water vapor" huh? Maybe because he realized the freeway was there and people would have seen the eruption he was talking about first.

Funny that water vapor doesn't appear on radar.
Funny the way it happened last year in the same area. In summer.
Funny the way it starts in the heat of the day every day.
Funny it behaves exactly like convective precipitation.


It's really not in the "exact same spot". Using Catalina Island for scale, it looks like the source was at least 10 miles different.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7def8be31842.gif[/atsimg]

But convective active does tend to repeat itself in the same general areas.

So what is the point of this three, is it to unjustly little another truth seeker. Hmmm, I'm not sure that any of you who are trashing this Dutch guy quite understand that if you don't like what you read then just shut up and leave, go to another thread and let the children play in the sand. What awful manners some people have, weren't you ever taught that if you have nothing nice to say just don't say anything. Has anyone else offered any explanation, oh, that's right, I've seen a few, but none have been 100% conclusive. So, until someone PROVES what was seen on the radar then there's no reason to say this guy is DEFINITIVELY wrong.

Oh, there's no way that it was bomb testing as the scale is fat too large to be a small release of debris. It could be mountainous terrain weather which I experience here in NC quite often. It does look strange on this radar video but such events can be caused by compression of a frontal boundary as it gets pushed over high elevation areas. The videho does seem to show a single point of origin then an expansion over time which I've never seen before with normal weather systems. Also, if it was a frontal boundary the "plume" would have continued longer than it does.