Have you ever wondered about the GNOSTIC GOSPELS

Just for the record.

Gnosticism is an autonomous religion, with roots predating christianity.

But like many christians, they liked to speculate, and the speculations mutated and made more or less syncretistic alliances with other religions.

But the basic message, that Jahveh is an insane sociopath, stayed rather intact through it all.

reply to post by bogomil


LOL, You are twisted bogo
Why do you come on these threads if you dont believe?
Do you enjoy popping our spiritual bubbles?? Hmmmmm??

LOTZA LUV ANYWAYS

reply to post by Mividau


There are more perspectives to belief/non-belief (in a religious sense) than just the usual black/white ones.

Perspectives where theism plays a role apart from the intrinsic religious messages in it. From my position my interest, participation and involvment isn't especially complex or twisted, though I can understand, that it can look that way, for those unfamiliar with the direction I come from.

And thanks for the question, which I don't take as an aggression, but as an expression of genuine curiosity. I won't try to shred you to pieces.

PS I actually have some sympathy for authentic gnosticism, which together with a few asian (semi)religions contains quite a few deep and fascinating facets I have spent years pondering on.

reply to post by bogomil


Thank goodness you could tell I was messing with ya alittle.
Could you share you're thoughts on the true gnostics?
If you put years into it, you have put much more in then me.
I would be happy to hear you're point of view.

LOTZA LUV

reply to post by Mividau


If you don't mind me asking...

What is your obcession with the gnostic gospels? Admittedly they're very interesting but what caused to you take an interest in them?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Mividau

 

If you don't mind me asking...

What is your obcession with the gnostic gospels? Admittedly they're very interesting but what caused to you take an interest in them?

I didnt have the net for years, So I had no access to them or people who have read them.
As of right now I live in a small lil rural orthdox community. So this type of convo is taboo.
I like them because they give a deeper spiritual nature to Jesus. To me the NT is a generic
version.

Also I hate being lied to, Which is what I think happend.
To me history is written by the winner's. So I would like to know what the losers truely had to say.
Plus I really prefer not to follow a religion that also backed Hitler. Which I put the evidence
to that on another thread.

To me I dont know how you can go from Jesus's teaching's to all the blood shed.
So in my mind it equates to his true teachings were lost.
I hope that helped explain me LOL. Thanks for asking though.

LOTZA LUV
BTW Do you like the gnostic teachings?

Originally posted by Mividau

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Mividau

 

If you don't mind me asking...

What is your obcession with the gnostic gospels? Admittedly they're very interesting but what caused to you take an interest in them?

I didnt have the net for years, So I had no access to them or people who have read them.
As of right now I live in a small lil rural orthdox community. So this type of convo is taboo.
I like them because they give a deeper spiritual nature to Jesus. To me the NT is a generic
version.

Also I hate being lied to, Which is what I think happend.
To me history is written by the winner's. So I would like to know what the losers truely had to say.
Plus I really prefer not to follow a religion that also backed Hitler. Which I put the evidence
to that on another thread.

To me I dont know how you can go from Jesus's teaching's to all the blood shed.
So in my mind it equates to his true teachings were lost.
I hope that helped explain me LOL. Thanks for asking though.

LOTZA LUV
BTW Do you like the gnostic teachings?

Excellent!

Thats just what i wanted to hear actually. Sooo many people are completely brainwashed by their churches. Now don't get me wrong, some churches are fine for some people, but its not for everyone. People that arn't satisfied with the answers that their religion offer, usually either abandon their faith comepletely, or start looking for truth in their faith. Though the latter is rare due to the world's distractions. If you really look at our society, its nothing but one HUGE distraction. Ask yourself, have you ever tried to clear your mind of all thought for only one minute? Hell, try it for 20 seconds... its not an easy thing to do for most people...

Also I hate being lied to, Which is what I think happend.
To me history is written by the winner's. So I would like to know what the losers truely had to say.

Please explain this "lie" you're talking about... Just for conversation sake

So in my mind it equates to his true teachings were lost.

I don't believe this to be true, though you do have to search for the message....

BTW Do you like the gnostic teachings?

Love em, i've read them all, aside from some of the reeeeealy long ones, which i will get around to one day.

If' you'd like some advice... Learn and practice meditation, it will help you on your "journey"... lol

Take a peek at this site, you'll love it... but be careful... there is a certain bias in what you'll read... but theres various different "scholarly" inturpretations as well...

reluctant-messenger.com...

reply to post by Akragon


The lie????

For one just the way the church has become. I dont see it as Jesus intended it.
It shouldn't be used for war fare or blood shed. Plus you get the child molestation.
The witch hunts, The crusades. Millions dieing in GODs and Jesus's name.

I just feel the true Jesus and his teachings got buried under the show.[The glory of the church]
But you are right they are there. Thats who I am seeking.

Meditation, I have been trying.
But with kidds it rather hard to get a moment LOL.

LOTZA LUV
Thanks for the link. I love new stuff to read or watch.

reply to post by Mividau


Sis, gimme your thoughts on a fav Chuck Missler video series on how we got the NT we have today. You can U2U me. Just want your opinion after you watch the videos.

Thanks,

NuT





















(I think you'll love the information, and I'm curious to see your thoughts on the presented material.)

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

God is sovereign over the Bible too. He's fully capable of keeping in what He wanted in and keeping out what He wanted out.

Originally posted by Hydroman
Hmmm, if that's the case, I wonder why there are so many versions of the bible now-a-days?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Easy. Money. You cannot get a copyright unless more than 10% is changed.

So then, I guess the greed for money was more powerful than god, as he did not stop them from adding or taking things away from the bible?

I read these gospels and can see why they were not included in the canon. In my opinion it is nothing but Christian heresy with the adulteration of sound apostolic doctrine with pagan philosophy along with astrology and Greek mystery religions. Some say that Simon mentioned in Acts 8:9 is the one who originated the Christian gnostics but I haven't done enough research on it to say for sure.

Some of the books are pretty entertaining, but I wouldn't go around quoting them as the real words of Christ. The only books that are not included which I really put any stock in is "Enoch and 2 Esdras". I also like alot of the Dead Sea Scrolls as well, "The Book of Giants" is very interesting.

The gnostic text don't hold the real teachings in my opinion.

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker


You wrote:

["In my opinion it is nothing but Christian heresy with the adulteration of sound apostolic doctrine with pagan philosophy along with astrology and Greek mystery religions"]

Ofcourse you have a right to a subjective opinion based on self-proclaimed authority, as do others with the completely opposite interpretation of the situation than yours.

For them pauline christianity is a perversion of not only the Jesus movement, but of religion in general. Words like (nothing but) 'heretic' is a worthless propaganda-statement, also used between the various pauline christianities.

PS Gnosticism is an autonomous religion, later hijacked by the christianities as an excuse to take over and to commit genocide.

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Some say that Simon mentioned in Acts 8:9 is the one who originated the Christian gnostics but I haven't done enough research on it to say for sure.

No, Justin Martyr was the first person to mix Gnosticism with Christianity and he was born about 4-5 years after the book of Revelation was written by John in 95-96 A.D. Justin died in the robes of a pagan priest.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
Some say that Simon mentioned in Acts 8:9 is the one who originated the Christian gnostics but I haven't done enough research on it to say for sure.

No, Justin Martyr was the first person to mix Gnosticism with Christianity and he was born about 4-5 years after the book of Revelation was written by John in 95-96 A.D. Justin died in the robes of a pagan priest.

Thanks. Can you provide a source for this? I'd like to check it out, I cracked open my "Early Christian Doctrines by J.N.D. Kelly" it's been awhile since I read it, but was reading over some of the Gnostic history there.

Nice videos you posted above, just watched them all. I love the part about Westcott and Hort, I did a full study on them a few years back. I have a copy of the NWT with interlinear and it's amazing some of the verses they leave out despite it being right there in front of their eyes.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

You should compare your own vision of the afterlife with the Elysian Fields and the Islands of the Blest, which are the mystery religion of the Greeks.

Remember, way back to the beginning. We were all one people with one faith, well as in the days of Noah they didnt care enough to believe in God anymore, they became anathema and apathetic which was why God destroyed them. Again after It all restarted with Noah, all religions sprang frim his sons families and somehow got changed or corrupted.

I think the ancient Greeks forgot that there was only One God, and that everything under him was not God, but were servants and messengers (helios,hermes etc.) which accounts for hades and the elysian fields. Hades being Hell, and the Elysian fields being Abrahams Bosom (it wasnt called abrahams bosom at first, but its where all the believers who beileved the savior would come went to rest after death).

Egypt at one time had only One God, and he was named Aten. Ahkenaten (Tutankhamun's father) closed all the temples of the false gods in egypt and instituted a One God religion which ultimately failed (due to politics and the priests running the country through the multi-god religion). It is widely believed by scholars today that Aten was probably one of the lost names of God, probably an old religion of God that Ahkenaten tried to take his people back to in an age of superstition and strife.

The Norse had a multi-god religion, however like Zeus, they had a "King God" called Woden (Odin). They most likely were another people who forgot that there was only one God and because the beings he commanded had powers beyond that of mortal men, the norse thought then that they too were gods. Another similarity between norse mythology and christianity were the valkyrie whom were winged female warriors, sometimes with firey swords who would take fallen warriors to the Great Hall where they would await the last battle, so very similar to christianities Armageddon and how the lord will return with the saints and the armies of heaven for a last climactic battle against evil.

All these religions sprang from one faith. The faith of the One True God. The God of many names. Yahweh,El,Jehovah,Yeshua,Allah, and perhaps Aten,Odin and Zeus were among those names at one time, long before the Greeks,Norse and Egyptians forgot that there was only One God. Maybe that, even the hindu god Vishnu could have been a name among those many names? It makes logical sense when you think about how we all came from the same line of men and how we are all just distant cousins that go back 1000 generations or more?

Think on that. As an Archeologist, it is my life mission to prove this theory. Maybe, it was after the tower of Babel's fall when God split us up and mixed up the languages when the shift began.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


You wrote:

["The Norse had a multi-god religion, however like Zeus, they had a "King God" called Woden (Odin). They most likely were another people who forgot that there was only one God and because the beings he commanded had powers beyond that of mortal men,"]

So by adding a "most likely.........forgot", you rewrite a religion to fit in with your pre-determined answer. It's a very unusual and not generally accepted 'scholarship'. Actually more like pseudo-scholarship.

Quote: [" Another similarity between norse mythology and christianity were the valkyrie whom were winged female warriors, sometimes with firey swords who would take fallen warriors to the Great Hall where they would await the last battle, so very similar to christianities Armageddon and how the lord will return with the saints and the armies of heaven for a last climactic battle against evil."]

Stretching similarities to breaking-point to fit your theory.

Quote: ["All these religions sprang from one faith. The faith of the One True God. The God of many names. Yahweh,El,Jehovah,Yeshua,Allah, and perhaps Aten,Odin and Zeus were among those names at one time, long before the Greeks,Norse and Egyptians forgot that there was only One God"]

Whoa. Your methodology is useless, and now you draw this kind of conclusions from it.

Quote: ["Maybe that, even the hindu god Vishnu could have been a name among those many names?"]

And 'maybe' is maybe good enough for your pseudo-analysis. But neither Vishny nor the northern gods can be forced into your monotheist box.

Quote: ["It makes logical sense when you think about how we all came from the same line of men and how we are all just distant cousins that go back 1000 generations or more?"]

What type of logic and what type of 'ideological migration' theory do you use to conclude this?

Quote: ["As an Archeologist, it is my life mission to prove this theory."]

Amateur...pro? As a pro you should know, that acheology doesn't give you any special qualifications in cultural anthropology, and your incomplete knowledge of scientific methodology is apparant.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


I heard a theory that it was after the great flood.
Not sure how the theory actually goes. But every religion and civilization stem from
a single source.

What is the best find you ever had BTW??

LOTZA LUV

I was just re-reading the Gospel of Thomas and wanted to share a verse that I feel is very enlightening;

Yeshua (Jesus) saw some babies nursing. He said to his students, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the Kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the Kingdom as babies?"

Yeshua (Jesus) said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be the male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter the Kingdom."

- 'Gospel of Thomas' verse 22

Just in case someone spouts off lies, The Gospel of Thomas dates somewhere between 30-110 C.E. This makes it the same age or older than Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.

reply to post by Sahabi


Actually Thomas was said to be dated between 50 and 150 CE...

Which is why its held in question by the church...

Either way none of the scriptures have been authenticated, so theres no way to prove what is real and what isn't.

And the bible proving the bible isn't proof of anything

reply to post by Akragon

"Either way none of the scriptures have been authenticated, so theres no way to prove what is real and what isn't.

I agree with you on that one! The councils of Carthage and Nicea did a great job of that. What ever the elite do not agree with, burn baby burn! There's a reason why history is 'his story.'

"Actually Thomas was said to be dated between 50 and 150 CE...

Which is why its held in question by the church... "

It all depends on who's academic opinion you take. The Gospel of Thomas has been dated at the earliest to 30 C.E. and 160 C.E. at the latest. Any way you throw the dice on the date, it is still either earlier or the same age range as Matthew (40-90 C.E.), Mark (55-70 C.E.), Luke (59-62 C.E.), and John (85-90 C.E.).

The age of The Gospel of Thomas is not the issue the church leaders have against it. How could they when it pre-dates or is equal to the age of the canonical gospels? The problem the church leaders have against it is the teachings it contains.

The Gospel of Thomas strips the power of the church leaders if it were officially ordained. For example;

His students asked him and said to him, "Do you want us to fast? How should we pray? Should we give to charity? What diet should we observe?"

Yeshua (Jesus) said to them, "If you fast you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray you will be condemned, and if you give charity you will harm your spirits. When you go into any region and walk through the countryside, and people receive you, eat what they serve you and heal the sick among them. What goes into your mouth will not defile you, but what comes out of your mouth will defile you."

"I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there."

It also teaches too many self-evident, self-empowering, and esoteric truths. For example, the verse I quoted in my previous post that you replied to and also this one;

"...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty."

"And the bible proving the bible isn't proof of anything

I am a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Jew, a Luciferian, an Occultist, an Agnostic, a Gnostic, and an Atheist. I'm not here to prove any authenticity of any religion or holy book. I am a mere spiritual seeker that can see transcendental truth in any source or form they may present themselves. I can eat around a rotten apple to consume the small bits of sweetness.