Anders Behring Breivik and the hidden hate of ATS.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes

It looks like we share the same thoughts on this.

Come to think of it, we should give this political approach a name, form a group with people who share this same view point, and then react angrily, indignantly and mockingly towards anyone who challenges or criticises our way of thinking.

Don't even joke

Despite what people are saying about the supposed drop in the standard of discourse on ATS ( probably looking through rose-tinted spectacles ), I have to say it's a lot better on this kind of thing than many other forums.

I agree, but It's also worrying that we are becoming more like those sites.
I don't want much moderation, really I don't... I much prefer self moderation and allowing the community to root out the crap and show the loonies that they're not welcome.

But I also don't want posts that incite violence and/or hatred.

It's a tough one.

Originally posted by Viking9019
reply to post by blupblup

 

Tribalism is racism? the brainwashed keep on getting dumber if thats what people are saying.
Tribalism is something that occured naturally i think is good in many ways but racism is man made.

I'm sure it's part of human nature to be wary/scared of those who dont look like us. I imagine it was a survival mechanism. It would be nice if we could leave those tribal fears in the past though and move on from our caveman instincts.

Originally posted by Viking9019
reply to post by blupblup

 

Tribalism is racism? the brainwashed keep on getting dumber if thats what people are saying.
Tribalism is something that occured naturally i think is good in many ways but racism is man made.

Pretty sure I said "Much like" actually...

The point is that all of it... all of the "lets be different and point out our differences and separate ourselves" crap just leads to suffering, war and death.

Racism, tribalism, nationalism and the caste system.... all these and anything like it are bad.

Everyone is entitled to their ideas and thoughts, it's when you act on them that it becomes dangerous and deadly.


People often say that tribalism is to counter globalisation and in a sense, I understand the sentiment behind that.... but Tribalism is essentially just the old political favourite... Divide and Conquer.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Tribalism is referred to as "genocide ideology" in Rwanda and that ethnographers there no longer use the labels Hutu or Tutsi.... Can't remember now but interesting anyway.

You can say that Nationalism is a good thing... you can argue for all of these things, but ultimately, anything that divides and breeds an us and them mentality is, in my mind, a very bad and dangerous thing.

reply to post by The Revenant


Before I comment on this thread I wanna talk about my political ideology. I am center right, however there are many things I am liberal about. Truth is my political agenda swings like a pendulum. Now with that said lets get on with my post.

I want to be able to 'live and let live', without running the risk of right-wing or religious people imposing their views upon me because I stopped challenging them. We all know that's what would happen. In recent years, the Atheist movement has developed teeth, and has come out fighting - along with the Liberal movement which has really begun networking and spreading the idea that conservatism just isn't 'human'. I believe it is this resurgence which led Mr Breivik to feel his standpoint was threatened, and for him to go on a rampage. Lefties, Liberals and Atheists all like to argue and verbally attack on their views - apparently righties & fundy Christians like to shoot instead

There was a time when the left had the same "gun-only" perceptions. Over the past 30-40 years the left have had a major hold over the western world and for a time it was good but now, like my own political ideology, it is time for the pendumlum to swing back to the right. During this "swing" we are gonna see violence, likely even war but it is all part of the "natural" Human change process.

ALS

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
There was a time when the left had the same "gun-only" perceptions. Over the past 30-40 years the left have had a major hold over the western world and for a time it was good but now, like my own political ideology, it is time for the pendumlum to swing back to the right. During this "swing" we are gonna see violence, likely even war but it is all part of the "natural" Human change process.

ALS

I agree that once upon a time the left did indeed have a violent aspect. But I disagree that the past 30-40 years have been dominated by the left... what about the Thatcher / Reagan years when the right-wing dominated the Western world?

Why should the pendulum swing? If not for the 'wash,rinse and repeat' strategy of the money market makers....

And why should there be violence? I don't believe this is natural human behaviour. Watch the third Zeitgeist film "Moving Forward" for some answers on that particular subject.

The Revenant.

Originally posted by The Revenant
Is the coming violence between right and left the only answer? Or can we find another more 'human' way of living with each others differences?

Great post! Yes, there is a more 'human' way of living with each others' differences - listening to each others' concerns.

It's quite simple. You may think I'm wrong for wanting to preserve England's ethnic and cultural heritage, but you need to accept that this is something I'm always going to care about. This sentiment is not going to go away by having its platform taken away. Likewise, I need to listen to your concerns about what might happen should nationalism gain a footing. We need to give each other platforms and work to ensure that our politicians do likewise.

We both want to avoid civil war. The only way is to stop denying our ideological opponents the oxygen of publicity, and we need to stop name-calling.

reply to post by The Revenant


I have a respones to your post but I want to be fully clued up first, I'll get back to you in 2 and a bit hours (lenght of the zeitgeist movie).

Darn thats long.

ALS

Originally posted by The Revenant
what about the Thatcher / Reagan years when the right-wing dominated the Western world?

What exactly made Thatcher 'right wing'? I'm genuinely interested because I don't know much about her policies. What I do know is that she oversaw expansion of the Marxist EU project, large amounts of immigration, the socialist healthcare system and - unless I'm wrong - tax increases. What I'm saying is - official history, social dogma and her incredibly posh accent tells us that Thatcher was 'right wing conservative'. Does that automatically make it true? Likewise with the Conservative party as a whole. What exactly make them right-wing? In fact, what makes them genuinely conservative in any way? What exactly do they conserve?

reply to post by The Revenant


Well, we are not filled with hate, for myself, I hate not one human being, no matter what they may have done. Nor do I feel sympathy for him either, he committed an atrocity, a plain act of terror, and no natter what is motivations, he needs to stand trial for his crimes against humanity. In a physiological way of thinking, hate, and love are the same emotion, just different polarities. That is why people say, "it was a love/hate relationship."

It is sad that religious convictions seemed to be his driving force, and it is sad that we Americans have been indoctrinated to hate the Muslims, and to demonize them. this is a military thing, demonize your enemy, and it makes it easier to kill that enemy. The Muslim People are not our enemy, people, they are human beings just like we all are. If we are to hate, and demonize a thing, it should be book religions. Both are based on fear and hate, and it is an atrocity that they are allowed by a free people to exist in this manner. Religion is supposed to be a personal thing, not a banner to fly, or a driving force to kill.

reply to post by Cythraul


Exactly.

Conservatives today are far more left than 50 years ago (even without the Lib-Dems). It make me wonder; Is in todays world, (center-right) conservatism considered far-right?.

ALS

P.S: Watched the first 10mins of zeitgeist movie and really enjoying it.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


But then you could argue that New Labour were far more on the right than their original premis as Labour a party created fro the workers movement.

What happened is that the middle class increased. Old party loyalties no longer held so firm as both parties wanted to go for Middle England. Thats where the votes were, so both parties toned down their original ideals in order to gain a broader spectrum of the votes. So now what we have is a Labour party that doesn't represent the ideological left and a Tory party that no longer represents the ideologically right. Both parties are now pretty indistinguishable from each other. They all go to the same schools and universities and study the same degree PPE ( Politics Philosophy and economics) at Oxford or Cambridge university.

Never has our political class been so out of touch with the citizens of this country. They live in a world of their own, obsessing about polls and media spin. None of them have much respect from the British public.

reply to post by ALOSTSOUL


I will be intrigued to see what you think of the Zeitgeist films.... if you get time at some point, watch the others as well.

Rev.

reply to post by The Revenant


I have seen the first.

I just got to the part about genes which is eye opening.

ALS

reply to post by The Revenant


First off, I commend you on making this thread and being forth right. I have stayed out of the aforementioned threads to date because I saw the trend of opinion and abuse right off as many have. It's a strong subject and many jump the gun and many shared the same insights. For me it's not left or right or even hatred towards the whole situation. I find what happened appalling and the man who committed the crime is accountable for his actions in my view and I have issue with those actions. Not his motivations or anyone else for that matter. Right is right and wrong is wrong any way a person wants to validate, excuse or explain it. At least for me that is how I see it.

reply to post by The Revenant


Well I'll skip step one as you've already cried us river, so right onto.....

Step 2. Build a bridge

Step 3. Get over it

Originally posted by PapaEmeritus
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Well I'll skip step one as you've already cried us river, so right onto.....

Step 2. Build a bridge

Step 3. Get over it

Be careful, I hear sunlight can toughen your skin - it can even take the appearance of stone if you're not careful...

The Revenant.

Originally posted by PapaEmeritus
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Well I'll skip step one as you've already cried us river, so right onto.....

Step 2. Build a bridge

Step 3. Get over it

Thanks for your insightful contribution. How long did it take you to think of that?

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Not nearly half the time it takes adults to whine and cry about things that have little to no merit in there day to day lives.

reply to post by The Revenant


Thats funny I'm a mason I work in the sun 3-5 days a week covered in concrete and gris so my skin does look like stone alot of the time.

reply to post by PapaEmeritus


Are you going to bring anything to the debate or is your intention to start a squabble, in thread about not squabbling.
Get a life mate and stop making a fool of yourself.