What happens if the US defaults?

Two very interesting and thought-provoking videos about this below:

YOU SHOULD REALLY WATCH THE SECOND ONE, and note especially what the professor says at the end.

reply to post by survivalstation


Well if they put the money collected away in a lock box like it was intended, the money would be there. The money collected was put in the general fund and money is set aside each month for SS from the general fund. They just spent way too much money now so alot of us in out 20s and 30s won't see a dime of SS and yet we pay into it anyways. They just need to do away with SS all together and let us decide how to save and invest our own money for retirement. Look how everything these smucks manage goes to pot and yet we let them handle our retirement? What the hell is wrong with us?

reply to post by wardk28


I agree, unfortunately, those crooked bastards just couldn't stand to watch $13 trillion dollars just sitting there waiting for us to collect. Yeah the 'general fund' happened.

All I know is I paid into it, I want my money back.

Oblahblah wants to hold my money hostage, I'm gonna take it personally. I'll donate every last penny I have and every free second of my time into making sure everyone I meet knows about Ron Paul.

Flock Barry and his fear-mongering tactics.

Good luck to you guys, it seems you are fighting a never ending battle on multiple fronts. Not really knowing America too well (other than what we read and hear) I cant see you guys putting up with much more - when is that straw going to break the camels back?

Originally posted by survivalstation
Bullspit! How the freak can Obama stop sending out checks on something that workers have 'invested' their money into????

Social security, despite what Obama and the mainstream media would have you believe, is not an entitlement program.

I pay 6.4% of my hard earned. taxed money, into a mandatory retirement program administrated by the United States government. My employer pays another 6.4% on top of that for a total of 12.8% of my wages that is due to me upon reaching retirement age.

For Obama to threaten to withhold money I mandatorily paid into a system is nothing short of fear mongering and reason to tar and feather the flocker.

i completely agree with you... but over the years, the select nature of the FICA taxes has been diminished and muddied by careful design,,, FICA participation $$ has been thrown into the General Fund for kniving reasons which are now becoming apparent... the money grubbing Legislators wanted to hide or defer their grand theft of the SSA pay-as-you-go funds...and now they tryy to obfuscate the issue more with deeming the Social Security Insurance program a 'Entitlement' and a 'social safety net'

i culled this info from a Yahoo article:

FICA Tax Rates
Generally, FICA taxes are collected at a rate of 7.65% on gross earnings - earnings before any deductions. The breakdown of FICA is 6.2% for Social Security (Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance or OASDI) and 1.45% for Medicare.

2011 FICA Tax and Social Security Limits
•FICA Tax Rate = 7.65% (see note below)
•Social Security Limit = $106,800
•Maximum Social Security Contribution = $6,621.60 (employer) / $4485.60 (employee)
Note: In 2011, the FICA tax rate for employees was lowered to 5.65%. The employer tax rate remained unchanged, while the Social Security rate for employees was lowered to 4.20%.

finance.yahoo.com...

ask a gov't employee about their special retirement & 'entitlement' program that continues to have a special status...whereas Social Security/Medicare have been demoted and intentionally made UnFunded
because the FICA tax money is spent on other things like pension payments to government workers and the leeches in Congress, and ex-presidents pensions for life.

As for DEFAULT..

if i were Treasury, i would continue to pay interest to the Note & Bondholders worldwide...

but i would suspend interest payment to the securities held by the Federal Reserve..

a FED that went way overboard in bailing out the Fraud created by the TBTF oligarchs and sold to foreign investors and foreign central banks to the tune of over $12 Trillion USD
Also withhold interest payments to the FED holdings of USA paper, they aquired during QE1 & QE2....

my guess that would cut off 50% of the forever increasing 'DEBT'... at present, the FED Reserve is in a win-win situation & they could/will not kill the golden goose (the US Treasury & taxpayer ) as their primary revenue source





her's a very good rundown on SS and debt/default
http://(nolink)/2011/07/22/social-security-money-stolen-25-trillion-surplus-2-39061/


it all hinges on the 1960 supreme court decision and the fact of IOUs are not worth diddle & that's what the SSA has.. $2.5 Trillion in IOUs instead of having Treasuries or Bonds....

The Social Security trust fund does not hold any real economic assets that can be drawn down to pay future benefits. That is an indisputable fact today, and it has been true ever since the 1983 payroll tax hike was enacted. Every dollar of the $2.5 trillion in surplus revenue, generated by the payroll tax hike, has been spent on programs unrelated to Social Security, leaving nothing to save or invest...

http://(nolink)/2011/07/22/social-security-money-stolen-25-trillion-surplus-2-39061/
((nolink))

the USA is & has been in default since 1983

[edit

Gold and silver will only help temporary in the long run it will do nothing. my guess is at this point we are at 50/50 they will default or not. if this does happen im guessing riots and ish for maybe a month. Then we get the North American Union with the money the federal reserve has been printing for this occasion. Also they abolish the constitution cause well it aint america no more, tptb will draft a more evil version to their liking and then the real hard times begin.











Note they no longer have american presidents on them, & In God we trust has been removed.

Also note the pyramid in the design it says Novus Ordo Mundi instead of novus ordu seclorum. The new meaning translated New world order instead of New order of the ages. implying it is here. Im sure in the aftermath of all this is when we get our RFID chips. Be very afraid. Not fearmongering if its the truth.

reply to post by Misterlondon


Tell that to the once middle class, hardworking citizen that lost their homes and are now living below the poverty line.

Originally posted by survivalstation

I pay 6.4% of my hard earned. taxed money, into a mandatory retirement program administrated by the United States government. My employer pays another 6.4% on top of that for a total of 12.8% of my wages that is due to me upon reaching retirement age.

Stop feeding the parasites, stop paying if possible unless you like being mugged.

A revoloution will do us well because then we get no more tax and no more BS from these parasites that need us more than we need them.

Taxation at current rates is killing the economy and most of the money paid in is stollen and you have no say how that money gets spent reagrdless of how you vote.

Vote with you're wallot, feet or both.

or how about vote with a bullet! when that time comes.

reply to post by MachiventaMelchizedek

Gold and silver will only help temporary in the long run it will do nothing. my guess is at this point we are at 50/50 they will default or not. if this does happen im guessing riots and ish for maybe a month. Then we get the North American Union with the money the federal reserve has been printing for this occasion. Also they abolish the constitution cause well it aint america no more, tptb will draft a more evil version to their liking and then the real hard times begin.

Why would the Fed Reserve print money for all of North America?
Who would be in charge of North America?

The more I read from ATS, the more I realize that Canada and the USA are extremely different countries. It would NOT be easy to mesh us together.

Canada is still a common wealth country. We are still somewhat "attached" to the UK.
Canada has its own printing press. With new banknotes being printed.
www.ctv.ca...

There isn't going to be a default, any more then there will disclosure of alien bases on earth. If there were, we would see dramatic movement in the markets now -- as all rumors are priced into the market by design.

This is political theater, designed to be consumed by the least sophisticated in our society, and it is for their entertainment and edification alone. The so called "debt ceiling" was raised FIVE TIMES between 2000 and 2008, and few of us noticed or cared. That's how 'world shaking' this particular bit of performance art really is.

Originally posted by survivalstation
Bullspit! How the freak can Obama stop sending out checks on something that workers have 'invested' their money into????

Social security, despite what Obama and the mainstream media would have you believe, is not an entitlement program.

I pay 6.4% of my hard earned. taxed money, into a mandatory retirement program administrated by the United States government. My employer pays another 6.4% on top of that for a total of 12.8% of my wages that is due to me upon reaching retirement age.

For Obama to threaten to withhold money I mandatorily paid into a system is nothing short of fear mongering and reason to tar and feather the flocker.

well said, it's unbelievable this post wasn't starred by everyone reading this thread.

That SS money is our money, not the governments; and by threatening to stop the checks is proof they are robbing our SS funds. These people need to see prison.

Why would the Fed Reserve print money for all of North America?
Who would be in charge of North America?

The more I read from ATS, the more I realize that Canada and the USA are extremely different countries. It would NOT be easy to mesh us together.

Canada is still a common wealth country. We are still somewhat "attached" to the UK.
Canada has its own printing press. With new banknotes being printed.
www.ctv.ca...



• Allowing the unrestricted movement of people and goods between nations.

• Giving amnesty, Social Security and health benefits to illegal aliens in the United States.

• Merging the militaries of the three nations.

• Building a superhighway called the I-69 Corridor from Mexico to Canada.

On 4/6/09, Jay Sekulow and the American Center for Law & Justice expressed concern about the Obama “Administration’s new strategy of internationalism – embracing foreign and economic policies that may very well put U.S. sovereignty at risk.” The next day, the Dept. of Homeland Security issued a report warning against the possibility of violence in the U.S. by citizens concerned about illegal immigration, increasing federal power, restrictions on firearms, abortion, the loss of U.S. sovereignty, etc. The report says end times prophecies could motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition and weapons. In 2010, the Department of Homeland Security awarded a $385 million contract to KBR, a former subsidiary of Halliburton, to build temporary detention centers on an “as needed” basis to be used in national emergency situations. $385 will pay for a lot of detention centers. In 2011, Sen. John McCain & eight co-sponsors introduced a bill (S-3081) in the Senate that will allow the U.S. Pres. to designate any American citizen (or foreigner) as an “enemy belligerent,” put him/her in jail, & hold them indefinitely without charges or a trial. Many consider this unconstitutional and if this has been voted on the writer is unaware of it.

Following Pres. Obama’s August 2009 attendance at the North American Leader’s Summit in Guadalajara, Mexico, “Sources in the State Department confirmed that the more than 20 trilateral working groups will continue under the North American Leader’s Summit, with bureaucrats from the three nations assigned from different agencies within each government. The groups will work on a North American agenda ‘integrating and harmonizing’ administrative rules across a broad range of policy areas ranging from transportation to border security, health, e-commerce, movement of goods, environment, energy and financial services.” The fact that the three nations are working to integrate and harmonize their administrative rules in so many areas clearly indicates that their ultimate goal is the merger of the three nations with one common set of rules or laws. In fact, on Nov. 30, 2010, it was also reported that these trilateral working groups (called “shadow government groups”) of bureaucrats, agency heads and others are working on ways to incrementally proceed on NAU integration in the following areas: e-commerce, transportation, environment, food, agriculture, health and financial services. “Incrementally proceed on NAU integration” means gradually proceed on the merger of the three nations

In Jan. 2011, Mexican Pres. Calderon signed an executive order to start issuing bio-metric ID cards to Mexico’s school children to help them qualify for “Trusted Traveler” cards that will eventually allow them to travel unhindered in all three nations. About the same time, the U.S. Border Patrol was working on America’s “Trusted Traveler” card and a “FAST” (Free And Secure Trade) card that will allow approved truck drivers to cross all borders unhindered (without inspections) in Mexico, Canada and the United States.

In Feb. 2011, Pres. Obama and Prime Minister Harper of Canada signed the “Beyond the Border” declaration legalizing “continental integration” (the NAU), a North American Commission, a North American Parliament (government) and a Court on Trade and Investment. The effective date was not revealed, but the formation of the NAU now appears to be a done deal. Pres. Obama agreed to keep the borders open so as not to impede commerce. He also agreed to develop a biometric ID system to track ALL North Americans and to delay a final decision on a new currency.

In April 2011, WikiLeaks released a series of documents showing that diplomats have decided to gradually merge the three countries. The documents show that creation of the North American Union is a bipartisan effort in the U.S. by people in high places (especially the Council on Foreign Relations) who are doing all of this without the approval of the House and Senate (or the voters). It’s incredible to believe that individuals can void the Constitution and surrender the sovereignty of the U.S. without the consent of the people, but that is what this writer believes in happening.

In May 2011, there was an unconfirmed report of a plan to merge Canada and the U.S. first. According to this report, Mexico will be added after the merger of Canada and the U.S. gains public acceptance and the new government is functioning as well as expected.

In June 2011, WikiLeaks released a Jan. 2005 diplomatic cable confirming that efforts to create a North American Union have been ongoing for years. It even confirmed that people in government and media have tried to cover up what they are doing by calling reports on their activities as a baseless conspiracy theory.
What does all of this mean? The merging of nations means world government is approaching.

reply to post by xstealth




All politicians are hired thugs. And the vast majority of Americans have an attention span of about 15 minutes.

I don't suppose you recall this subject of protecting Social Security back in 2000.

I spent some time looking for wasteful gov't spending habits (NOT hard to find!) that could have been curbed to more easily have avoided this scenario. I found someone elses research that laid out the money wasted in just the Senate. (In the link to this page are links to actual gov't 'paper work' showing these expenses and allocations) But for those that may not have time to site hop I'll pull in a few of the number quotes and post them here.

Senate Spending

The strangest allotment is for Senate 'hair care':

Yep… The Federal Government has a fund that was created specifically for the hair care of its Senators! For fiscal year 2010, $33,387 was used to outlay this expense. The word outlay simply means “to spend, an amount expended, paid expenditures”.
But even more importantly, this “revolving fund” has a balance, which is appropriated solely for this Senatorial hair care. That fund balance, which is invested and gains each year, is $261,117.19. That represents a gain for this fund over fiscal year 2009 of about $36,000.

Senate Restaurant Fund:

The Senators tapped this fund for $72,370.12 for fiscal year 2010. This left a remaining balance in the “Senate Restaurant Fund” of $49,859.53.

The Gym Memberships:

The taxpayers also paid $123,856.74 towards the “Senate Health And Fitness Facility, Architect Of The Capitol”. This left an account balance of $256,380.37.

How about some of the larger 'alotments'?
Gift Shop Fund:

Well, this fund has $2,939,413.53 within it. What this taxpayer money is used for is unclear, but these guys managed to spend $166,673.26 over fiscal year 2010.

The numbers just grow and grow for a total of around a half a billion dollars annually that the senators have access to for mostly what we would view as personal use. Also a point to note is that this money sits in bank accounts and the unused portions do not get returned to the taxpayers. The Senate just keeps on asking for larger and larger appropriations.

Finding this in Just the Senate, can you imagine the amount of waste if we add up all the branches of the gov't?

Sorry if this got a bit long winded, I'm new to the community and still getting the hang of this =)

If the US defaults we'll just simply make up some other bull# excuse to delay economic downfall.

No country is going to care if we default or not, it's as simple as that. We'll still have imports and exports, many countries rely on exports to the US for their own economy as well.

This national debt concept is silly garbage, I simply can't imagine another country caring about that, you really have to sit down and analyze it and ask yourself, do any other countries really give a # ? No, it doesn't matter.

I mean #ing christ, isn't the reason we have this silly amount in the first place because our dumbass country prints money to pay off other debts ? this is where inflation came from, and it will never go away, period.

I urge everyone to check out the Bipartisan Policy Center and their Debt Limit Analysis. The link to the full analysis can be found on the bottom of the page or HERE.


Some interesting highlights.

-- The United States Government has about a $160 billion dollar monthly deficit.
-- Based on historical receipts tough choices will have to be made

Pages 13 through 20 give the breakdown of how choices will be made.

The key thing here is, in order to default, the United States would have to willingly not pay debtors. If that happens then both the President and Congress have willingly allowed the United States of America to default. Beyond those payments, according to the link, is about $29 billion. The monthly income (tax receipts) can cover the interest payments for now.

Using their method provided, the United States can prioritize its payments. It will be painful but default can be avoided. That word is for political posturing...period!

Actually, there are tools provided at the link, try it out and list how you would prioritize the payments. Below you will find mine.

Numbers are in billions and based on the assumption of monthly cash flow of approx $172 billion. Listed, in my opinion of priority.

Interest on Treasury Securities (this is mandatory to avoid default) $ 29.0
Military Active Duty Pay 2.9
Veteran Affairs 2.9
IRS Refunds 3.9
Social Security 49.2
Medicare 28.6
Food / Nutrition Assistance 9.3
Medicaid 21.4
Unemployment insurance 12.8
HUD Programs 6.7
Department of Energy 3.5
Department of Justice 1.4
Small Business Administration 0.3

Total $171.9

We can cut out the SBA, DOJ and DOE. The HUD programs also. Even Food benefits could be limited. Prioritization within each of those programs and funding categories would have to undergo a similar process. Where we comb through and pay only top priority items.

Bottom line is...the United States is not at risk of a default. We are at risk of some tough choices and the actions taken by politicians will just be smoke and mirrors. The American public already has shown its hand that it will allow Congress to take these to 11th Hour and then come out looking like saviors. When the deals will be shadier, more nefarious and certainly will not benefit the People.

I dont know what might happen, but I know one thing for sure that it will not be something dramatic like we always imagine.