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Islam and the reformation...

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posted on Aug, 16 2004 @ 04:20 AM

Originally posted by zi2525
To the original poster, the war is not about "kill the white man" it has absolutly nothing to do with skin tone. Me for one am half iranian and when not int he sun and tanning during the winter am just about the same skin colour as most, i do though have dark hair and eyes and dark body hair (and im only 15).

Dude... read the whole thread... get the points (and people's counter points) agree/disagree... this is knitpicking a little... my point was that people try to *blame* the Koran, claiming it's total regilious intolerance. I give you that the 'white man' bit doesnt *quite* work (I know a couple of European muslim converts.. they is pretty white!), but this generalisation is usually down to the critics of Islam, who dont recognise that their own Judeo-Christian relgions share simialr flaws, and cannot be taken too literally... If you'd read my other points.. you would see that I find the impetus for this conflict as a amalgem of many local and international political issues... an some pretty irrational philosphy (of sorts.. on both 'sides')... and well... Israel.. mmm do Arabs dislike Israel? Never!

cor blimey guv'ner

Im glad you tan... I must be the palest Yid in the whole damn world.. thats what you get for hanging in Russia for 400 years huh... stupid relatives...

fraternal smiles and nods to the crowd, for it is another glorious morning.. and Im late for the dole!

posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 04:26 PM
Not to put to fine a point on it Islam has no foundation on which to build a reform movement all prior attempt fail Islam is about conquest.
Nothing to be ashamed of ,but something that I personally reject.

There is little left after this.
this abrogates the mecca verses.
it shows mohammed was a killer for took for ranson and stole,
it says Allah want muslims to die
it tells muslims to invade other lands form armies and take over the world.
It tells them to torture capitives and create terror.
Twist it if you want but you cant change what it says
.Its pretty plain. No interpretation is needed.

8.57. So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.

8.58. If you (O Muhammad ) fear treachery from any people throw back (their covenant) to them (so as to be) on equal terms (that there will be no more covenant between you and them). Certainly Allh likes not the treacherous.

8.59. And let not those who disbelieve think that they can outstrip (escape from the punishment). Verily, they will never be able to save themselves (from Allh's Punishment).

60. And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, etc.) to threaten the enemy of Allh and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allh does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allh shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.

8.61. But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in Allh. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

8.62. And if they intend to deceive you, then verily, Allh is All-Sufficient for you. He it is Who has supported you with His Help and with the believers.

8.63. And He has united their (i.e. believers') hearts. If you had spent all that is in the earth, you could not have united their hearts, but Allh has united them. Certainly He is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

8.64. O Prophet (Muhammad )! Allh is Sufficient for you and for the believers who follow you.

8.65. O Prophet (Muhammad )! Urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast persons amongst you, they will overcome two hundred, and if there be a hundred steadfast persons they will overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are people who do not understand.

8.66. Now Allh has lightened your (task), for He knows that there is weakness in you. So if there are of you a hundred steadfast persons, they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand of you, they shall overcome two thousand with the Leave of Allh. And Allh is with As-Sbirin (the patient ones, etc.).

8. 67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war
(and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among
his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the
money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allh desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

8. 68. Were it not a previous ordainment from Allh, a severe torment would have touched you for what you took.

8.69. So enjoy what you have gotten of booty in war, lawful and good, and be afraid of Allh. Certainly, Allh is Oft-Forgiving, Most

8.70. O Prophet! Say to the captives that are in your hands: "If Allh
knows any good in your hearts, He will give you something better than
what has been taken from you, and He will forgive you, and Allh is
Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

8.71. But if they intend to betray you (O Muhammad ), they have already
betrayed Allh before. So He gave (you) power over them. And Allh is
All-Knower, All-Wise.

8.72. Verily, those who believed, and emigrated and strove hard and
fought with their property and their lives in the Cause of Allh as
well as those who gave (them) asylum and help, - these are (all) allies
to one another. And as to those who believed but did not emigrate (to
you O Muhammad ), you owe no duty of protection to them until they
emigrate , but if they seek your help in religion, it is your duty to
help them except against a people with whom you have a treaty of mutual
alliance, and Allh is the All-Seer of what you do.

8.73. And those who disbelieve are allies to one another, (and) if you
(Muslims of the whole world collectively) do not do so (i.e. become
allies, as one united block with one Khalifah - chief Muslim ruler for
the whole Muslim world to make victorious Alh's Religion of Islmic
Monotheism), there will be Fitnah (wars, battles, polytheism, etc.) and
oppression on earth, and a great mischief and corruption (appearance of

8.74. And those who believed, and emigrated and strove hard in the
Cause of Allh (Al-Jihd), as well as those who gave (them) asylum and
aid; - these are the believers in truth, for them is forgiveness and
Rizqun Karm (a generous provision i.e. Paradise).

If every Muslims converted to Hinduism tomorrow it does not change what Mohammed claims Allah said and commands one dot or squiggle .
Good muslims Kill 4 Allah. Nothing you can say changes that.

[edit on 20-8-2004 by KAOSKTRL]

posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 01:06 PM
Everyone who has read my posts know I have a deep disdain with Islam. i believe Muhammad was either in need of an exorcist or was simply power mad. The man created a religon by himself and created a powerful army to spread his "good news". When others were not so keen to his ideas, they were met with deadly force. Amazing how weak the human brain is.

posted on Aug, 21 2004 @ 01:13 PM
I dont believe Indians are Muslims?

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