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God (*more specifically, Jesus*), Created the Heavens and Earth.

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posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 


Alright lets see here...


It is the direct Word of God - His DIRECT SPEACH, not something He "inspired" to someone, and then this someone wrote that in his own "way".


please don't make this a "it was written by God" arguement... Its uselss unproveable speculation...


The "clear proof" is the truth he brought which was backed by some of the mightiest miracles which God did through him. Yet, THEY STILL DID NOT BELIEVE him and accused him of being a "magician".


He taught much more then silly miracles man... besides that was likely added later for the sake of insisting "their God" is the best one...


Now, when God revealed the Qur'an - it touched upon exactly these matters that were contested - it PURIFIED the teachings of Jesus - and showed what he really taught - which was the same truth as all the prophets - on worshipping the One and only God


His teachings did not need to be purified... as far as i've found they are flawless...

Unfortunatly i can't say the same about the Qur'an... At least not from what you've shown me





posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 




His teachings did not need to be purified... as far as i've found they are flawless...

Unfortunatly i can't say the same about the Qur'an... At least not from what you've shown me



Really?

Is it not in the Gospel of John that it says "The Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD"?

Isn't that one of the corruptions?

That one and many more are corrected with Qur'an.

Sure, you can refuse this and the Qur'an being from God, because you say that can not be proven ... but those are your words. There are THOUSANDS of proofs in the Qur'an which absolutely confirm that it is a revelation of God.

I will look for a post of mine I had posted some time ago ... and will bring it here. It is merely a speck from the OCEAN of the miracles in the Qur'an itself. ... Wait ...


Here:



pray show me one SINGLE book, except Qur'an, that:

- doesn't fall into any literary criteria
- has it's opening statement (Bismillah) made of 19 characters
- where the number 19 appears as a word once in that 6000+ verses book
- and it just so happens that the first words of that book to ever be revealed to the man are made of 19 words
- and although the chapter containing these words is the first revealed chapter, in the book itself it is chapter no. 96 - the 19th ch. from the end
- what's more weird, this ch. (96) has, guess what, 19 verses
- furthermore, this book has the word for "day" scattered throughout it exactly 365 times
- the word for month exactly 12 times
- the word for sea exactly 32 times (71.11111% out of 45 - amount of water on earth)
- and the word for land 13 times (28.88889% out of 45 - amount of land on earth)
- has "angel" mentioned 88 times, just as "devil" (88 times)
- has a chapter called "sun" each verse of which ends with the letters H and E (Hydrogen/Helium - accidentally the main elements of the sun)
- has a chapter called "iron", which, is chapter no. 57 - the middle of the book sort to say - just like the middle of the iron isotopes (57)
- and the word "The iron" - "El hadid" has, by "pure chance" the numerical value of 57, whereas "iron" (Hadid) has a numerical value of 26 - absolutely coincidentally the atomic number of iron
- still more, it mentions "tree" 26 times, just as the word "plant"
- it also has "seven heavens" repeated 7 times. And even "The creation of the heavens" also 7 times.
- further, this book has the word "paradise" repeated 77 times - like the word "hell"
- it also has the word "man" repeated 23 times, just like "woman" and, this, just for the "fun", is also:
- the number of the human chromosomes (46) from the egg and sperm in the formation of the human embryo; 23 each from mother and father.
- this utterly "unspectacular" book, being more than 1400 years old, has in it, the descriptions of:
-- the Big Bang
-- the Expansion of the Universe
-- the Big Crunch
-- the Dark Matter
-- the Black Holes
-- the relativity of time
-- the origin of iron from outer space
-- the significance of fingertips
-- the pain receptors in the skin, etc...
- further, in this "any book with good amount of pages", we find that it has:
-- 114 chapters, and the sum of the chapter numbers (1+2+...+114) is: 6555
-- the sum of the verses (7+286+...) is 6236
-- out of the total sum of ch. number plus number of v. (1 + 7, 2 + 286,) we get .... wait for it:
-- total of the odd numbers: 6555
-- total of the even numbers: 6236
-- interestingly, in this book the author makes a quite strange oath. "By the even and the odd ..." (Q, 89:3)
- now, this book has an even weirder property: it is NOT written chronologically - the author doesn't start with verse 1 of ch. 1, then writes verse 2 of ch. 1 etc ... nope:
He writes verses 1-5 of ch. 96 (19 words of the ch. which WILL HAVE LATER 19 verses, and will be the 19th ch. from the end of the book) then after 2-3 years he writes the beginning of ch. 74, up to verse 30, which states "Over it are nineteen" - stops, then writes chapter no.1, which, oh dear, starts with "bismillah", comprised of 19 letters.
So, during hardship, getting tortured, attacked etc. for 23 years he writes a verse here and there, from totally DIFFERENT chapters, and the whole time he keeps in mind (since he cant ACTUALLY write/read) where which verse will go, in which chapter, after which verse etc.
AND ALL THAT WHILE CREATING A SUPREME MATHEMATICAL SYSTEM AND DESCRIBING SCIENTIFIC FACTS DISCOVERED THOUSAND+ YEARS LATER.



Nay, but those who disbelieve live in denial, And Allah, all unseen, surroundeth them. Nay, this is a glorious Qur'an! (Qur'an, 85:19-21)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by sHuRuLuNi
 



Is it not in the Gospel of John that it says "The Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD"?

Isn't that one of the corruptions?


Absolutely...

But Jesus did not say that...




posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 03:47 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


Whats your point?

You can ramble on about how great Muhamad was, but that doesn't change the fact that i don't know anything about him.

That is why i asked you to post some stuff about him... and specifically when he spoke about Jesus... at least then i can relate.... or not.



You don't know anything about him? If there is a will there is a way....

These are some of God's words to Jesus(pbuh) according to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Did Jesus(pbuh) conveyed this message to his people? The Qur'an testified that he did!

O Jesus! Say to the unjust of the Children of Israel that wisdom weeps in fear of Me, while you [Children of Israel] leave laughing. Has there come to you a reprieve, or is there with you a guarantee against My chastisement, or that you will not be subject to My punishment? I swear by Myself, that I will abandon you as an example for those who remain.
Thus I charge you, O son of Mary, that you bring news to the Children of Israel of the Master of the messengers and My beloved, who is Ahmad, having a red camel and a face like the moon, who is a shining light, a pure heart, courageous, venerably modest. Verily, he is a mercy to the worlds, and master of the children of Adam on the day of his meeting Me, the most honored of the foremost , and the last of the messengers from Me, an Arab, a trustworthy person, one committed to My religion, one patient for My sake and one who struggles by his hand against the idolaters for the defense of My religion. Order them to affirm him, believe in him, follow him and help him. Jesus said: Who is it that I should please? Then, pleasure is for You.
He said: He is Muhammad the Messenger of Allah to the people, all of them. In station, he is nearer to Me than they; in intercession, he is more ready than they; blessed be he as Prophet, and blessed be his community (ummah) if they meet Me on his path. The inhabitants of the earth praise him, and the inhabitants of the heavens ask for his forgiveness. He is the trustworthy, the blessed, the wholesome and salutary, better than others with Me.
He will be at the end of time. When he arrives, the spouts of the heavens are loosed, and the earth puts forth its blossoms, so that they see the benediction. I will bless them by that upon which he puts his hand. He has many wives and few children. He is an inhabitant of Bakkah [Mecca] the place of the foundations of Abraham.
O Jesus! His religion is upright (hanafiyyah), and his qiblah is Yemenite, and he is of My party, and I am with him, so blessed be he, then blessed be him. The Kawthar is for him, and the greatest position in the gardens of Eden. He lives most honored of all who have ever lived, taken as a martyr, for whom is a fountain greater than the distance from Bakkah to the place of the rising of the sun, full of wine untouched, in which there are dishes like the constellations of the sky, and stars like the clods of the earth, agreeable, in which is every sort of wine and the flavors of every fruit in the Garden. Whoever drinks a drink from it will never thirst.
It is apportioned for him, and I have preferred him by a period of time between you and him. His secrets agree with what is apparent from him, and his words with his actions. He does not command the people, unless he first begins to practice it. His religion is a struggle in hardship and in comfort. The cities will obey him, and the ruler of Rome will humble himself before him following the religion of Abraham. He will mention the Name of God at meals, and bid peace, and he will pray while the people sleep. For him each day there will be five prayers in succession. His call to prayer will be like the call to muster troops.
He will open his prayer with 'Allahu Akbar (God is the greatest)' and end it with salutations of peace. He will put his feet in line in prayer as the angels place their feet in line, and his heart and head will be humbled for Me. Light Is In his breast and truth is on his tongue. And he is in the right, wherever he is. First an orphan, wandering for a time regarding what He wills for him, his eyes sleep but his heart does not, interceding is only for him, and his community will reach the [Final] Hour and My hand will be above their hands, whoever breaks [his pledge with the Prophet (S)], breaks [it] against himself, and whoever is loyal to his pledge, I will be loyal to him [awarding to him] the Garden.
So command the oppressors of the Children of Israel not to obliterate his books and not to distort his tradition and to offer peace to him. Surely, there is a noble station for him.
O Jesus! Whatever brings you near to Me, I have guided you to it, and all that takes you far from Me, I have prohibited it for you. So, seek what is for your own sake.

- - -



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 04:10 AM
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reply to post by queenofangels_17
 


What Muhammad did was take the light of the torah and the teachings of Jesus to the Arab people who were still practicing forms of idolatry. The understanding that God is everything is the light of the torah, and Christ's teachings are our relationship to it all.

It is the purest truth eliminating all the middle men between the believer and God. You want to know about God, ask him yourself. No one has the answer but God and he will answer it in a way that YOU understand.

Idolatry conceals God in symbols and initiatory rituals. This is to subdue individuals under the will of others.

If you control the unknown, you control the people through fear.

People may think the methods are harsh to break the spell of idolatry and superstition, but failure to do so only leaves the people enslaved.

Muhammad did for the Arab people what Moses did for the Jews.

What Christ did for the Gentiles because the Jews rejected him.

With Love,

Your Brother

edit on 19-10-2011 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2011 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by IAMIAM
 


Whoever has faith, more will be given to him. You are one of them, brother.

Every Nation has its messenger, but the message they bring is the same. They came from just One light, and this light travels on until this day, it may keep changing its vehicle but the essence of the light remains the same.

We ask Allah to purify our souls to reflect His light and to proclaim His Unity.

Peace!



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 01:10 AM
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SEEKER LOU


Christians are the Sons of Light. We are given highly exceptional sight thanks be to GOD.

You are correct in this statement and The LORD smiles upon you as you know.

Do well in keeping steadfast in the Faith, never seizing or halting for any opinion of men.

Christians are the One true light in this world because we are Children of the One true Light.

As long as we give All Thanks and Glory to GOD, we do well.

edit on 15-5-2012 by steve704 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by steve704
SEEKER LOU


Christians are the Sons of Light. We are given highly exceptional sight thanks be to GOD.

You are correct in this statement and The LORD smiles upon you as you know.

Do well in keeping steadfast in the Faith, never seizing or halting for any opinion of men.

Christians are the One true light in this world because we are Children of the One true Light.

As long as we give All Thanks and Glory to GOD, we do well.

edit on 15-5-2012 by steve704 because: (no reason given)


Oh now stop with this non-sense about "christians" being so special. It is simply not true.

Calling yourself a Christian grants you nothing.

Making claims proves nothing.

If you have a light shine it and let the world decide by the fruit you bear, but stop with this silly group think. Do you realise that under the umbrella of "Christian" you are including the west boro baptist church, the branch dividians, the Klu Klux Klan, and many other groups who if I called you a member you would protest?

Be YOU and get out of the group think. Just like "Muslims" have their good and their not so good, and Hindus have their good and not so good, and atheists, and every other group out there.

You are who you are. Be it and let the world see YOUR light.

If you walk in the shoes of Christ, they will KNOW by your works.

This is really just getting plain silly with the bickering when you know in your churches the adultery, the lying, the stealing, back biting, and plain ole hypocrisy that goes on.

You are fooling no one but yourself by making claims that a groups members are all true by default. You know I am telling the truth.

Why oh why must you do what Christ did not tell you to do?

Where did he say raise the Christian banner and conquer?

Your mission is to spread the gospel and keep the commandments.

You are supposed to do your works in the name of the father that he be glorified.

Are you here in the name of the Lord so that he gets credit for what you say?

Are you keeping his commandments?

Are you loving your neighbor so that they KNOW their is a loving God out there?

Are you answering their prayers that he can be glorified?

Stop the BS. The Lord IS watching! and the world is waiting!

In the name of the Lord,

Amen!



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by AManYouALL
 


Everything I have stated is Truth.
I do not argue with the opinion of men. Everyone makes a choice, chooses a side and wills to see the choice grow in others.

Everyone will die.. the choice is Christ or torment, forevermore.



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by steve704
reply to post by AManYouALL
 


Everything I have stated is Truth.
I do not argue with the opinion of men. Everyone makes a choice, chooses a side and wills to see the choice grow in others.

Everyone will die.. the choice is Christ or torment, forevermore.


You missed my point. It does not matter which side you choose. A side is not who you are nor is it how you will be judged.

You are judged on your own merits.

If a man claims to follow Christ but does not in his actions, and another does not make the claim that he follows Christ but does in his actions, which will Christ deny before the father?

edit on 15-5-2012 by AManYouALL because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by steve704
 

Bless you my Bro. I truly appreciate your words of encouragement .


Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by steve704
reply to post by AManYouALL
 


Everything I have stated is Truth.
I do not argue with the opinion of men. Everyone makes a choice, chooses a side and wills to see the choice grow in others.

Everyone will die.. the choice is Christ or torment, forevermore.


You missed my point. It does not matter which side you choose. A side is not who you are nor is it how you will be judged.

You are judged on your own merits.

If a man claims to follow Christ but does not in his actions, and another does not make the claim that he follows Christ but does in his actions, which will Christ deny before the father?


It appears so many are missing the ''simplicity that is in Christ" - missing conviction of sin and the like..or they think that have to really strive HARD to get there by their own works. It's the finished WORK upon Calvary wherein all of the glory lies....

To the man who said this," If a man claims to follow and does not" ... then imo, he, this man's heart must have never been truly regenerated , not serious about dedication, or basically never born again. There are many false ones....Yep, even in the churches. So, be careful out there...this is why it is very important to study His Word... hide it in your heart , so as not to be led astray into doctrinal error , false belief, or satanic deceit!

Steve and I are not tooting our own horn, we are merely trying to lift the royal banner - uplift Jesus . Because he says if we do this, he will draw men to him...... It's Jesus and Jesus alone. but yes, of course, Christ does think of His children as special!! Praise His Name. If you have children, surely you DO consider them loved and special... I'd hope.

We are judged whether we be IN Christ or not... not our works lest any man should boast.... which is not to be confused with the rewards of the Saint's works .

Anyway... May the Light of the Lord keep on shining brightly! People don't like it when their darkness gets pierced... but sorry... God's sword and swift judgment are right around the door so to speak...imo.. Look at all of the signs around you. Seek ye the Lord while He yet may be found.

Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Christians are considered adorned / clothed in Christ's righteousness. PLease NOTE: The GIFT of righteousness. Praise God , He imputes His righteousness upon us...
edit on 15-5-2012 by SeekerLou because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerLou
Christians are considered adorned / clothed in Christ's righteousness. PLease NOTE: The GIFT of righteousness. Praise God , He imputes His righteousness upon us...
edit on 15-5-2012 by SeekerLou because: (no reason given)


This may be the hang up.

None are righteous. Not a single one.

That which created us ALL. That one is righteous...



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by steve704
reply to post by AManYouALL
 


Everything I have stated is Truth.
I do not argue with the opinion of men. Everyone makes a choice, chooses a side and wills to see the choice grow in others.

Everyone will die.. the choice is Christ or torment, forevermore.


You missed my point. It does not matter which side you choose. A side is not who you are nor is it how you will be judged.

You are judged on your own merits.

If a man claims to follow Christ but does not in his actions, and another does not make the claim that he follows Christ but does in his actions, which will Christ deny before the father?



Certainly not the one that denies Him before men.



posted on May, 15 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by AManYouALL

Originally posted by SeekerLou
Christians are considered adorned / clothed in Christ's righteousness. PLease NOTE: The GIFT of righteousness. Praise God , He imputes His righteousness upon us...
edit on 15-5-2012 by SeekerLou because: (no reason given)


This may be the hang up.

None are righteous. Not a single one.

That which created us ALL. That one is righteous...

How Does God Make Us Righteous?

How does God make us perfectly righteous in His sight? ..He does this by putting us IN CHRIST.
ubdavid.org...

" I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. "
bible.cc...

bible.cc...

Glory be to GOD, in every thing, in every achievement + massive or miniscule.



posted on May, 16 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 
Thanks NoturTypical. I forgot to be like Paul Harvey and say the rest of the story . To me, it was just a given...so thanks for making it clearER for others.

reply to post by steve704
 


Steve, my Bro.! That is a fantastic link: Thank you so much for this contribution!.. Everything is so beautifully explained ---- Thank God -HE IS our righteousness!

Together, in His Service...
As we sing this song

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
Refrain:
On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
All other ground is sinking sand,
All other ground is sinking sand.
When darkness veils His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace;
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.
His oath, His covenant, His blood
Support me in the whelming flood;
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my hope and stay.
When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh, may I then in Him be found;
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Certainly not the one that denies Him before men.


Most certainly NOT!

Excellent point and thank you for making it.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by steve704
How Does God Make Us Righteous?


God does not make YOU righteous. Your own ego makes you righteous.

But I say this...

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still:
and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still:
and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still:
and he that is holy, let him be holy still.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by steve704
 


Everything I have stated is Truth.

Whose truth, exactly? Yours? Let me quote you here on one of your "truths".

you can not run from certain death. you can not run from certain hell.
source
Certain death, you say? The Spirit is Immortal, friend, it even says that in your book. Composed of pure energy, it cannot be destroyed by anything.
I have lived man, many lives upon this world, thankfully this is the last one here. And I think we all know where the doctrine of your "hell" came from, don't we? Gehenna? The Christian concept of Hell is made up, friend, and not real. Neither are Demons, Satan, or a Devil, all concepts made up by the Priests to scare people into coming to Mass and paying for it. I see your truth, in stark repose, friend. You simply cannot take a religious concept and call it a truth, it doesn't work that way. Case in point:
Jesus is said to have raised a dead man and brought his back to life. You agree with that? Call that a truth? OK? Ever heard of Necromancy?

Necromancy [nikroʊmeɪnsi] ( Greek νεκρομαντία, nekromantía ) is a form of divination in which the practitioner seeks to summon "operative spirits" or "spirits of divination", for multiple reasons, from spiritual protection to wisdom. The word necromancy derives from the Greek νεκρός ( nekrós ), "dead", and μαντεία ( manteía ), "divination".

However, since the Renaissance, necromancy has come to be associated more broadly with black magic and demon-summoning in general, sometimes losing its earlier, more specialized meaning. By popular etymology, nekromantia became nigromancy " black arts", and Johannes Hartlieb (1456) lists demonology in general under the heading. Eliphas Levi, in his book Dogma et Ritual , states that necromancy is the evoking of aerial bodies ( aeromancy).
source
I am not one to usually post quotes from the bible, but simply to illustrate, here goes:

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.
(Leviticus 19:31)

"Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead......"
(Deuteronomy 18:11)

“If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people".
(Leviticus 20:6)

“A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”
(Leviticus 20:27)

So, there we have it. If Jesus is God like a great many of you say, they why did he forbid necromancy and witchcraft many times in his book, then do it himself? And how about walking on water, turning water to wine? All feats of Magick, friend. And not White Magick either, but the very Darkest kind.
As a Christians, how do you defend this?



posted on May, 20 2012 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by steve704
 




Hi autowrench. Not sure if I can give you a good answer on this but will attempt my 2cnts. The way I see it is there is but One true God - (Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit) - and HE is a jealous God with reason . There are others who wish to elevate themselves to the same level as being equal to or even above God ( by far this can never be because there is only ONE True God ) Remember Lucifer wished to exhalt himself to be better than - above God Almighty?

God is Spirit and He is Creator. He is able to perform these miracles, etc as you stated. And this -I believe is because He IS God. He performed His miracles, out of love and also this drew believers to Him. The miracles that Jesus performed were to show who He was, His power, etc. Raising the dead ,etc. He was showing that He was God in the flesh - the Kingdom was at hand!

Imo, it is not considered BAD magic when it's of God . It's the OTHERS magic that is condemned and considered neocromancy,.etc for these are not OF God . The source of the black magic comes from the fallen ones .

Other's talking to the dead etc. would be like going around talking to the opposition. It all stems from the evil fallen ones etc There is danger in doing this. Trying to bypass God, and do otherwise, etc , there is no telling how many doors of deception could be opened ..They *the fallen* DO love to trick and deceive others into believing their lies -to detract or take away from God almighty. They hate God our Creator and will do anything against. So it's others' practice of magic -apart from God - that is condemned by Him. He is perfect, just and Holy and True .

He IS a jealous God....and He told us to not do these things for a reason . We are not to have other god's before Him... Yeah , there are many gods but only one true God. Anything else 's magic is from other sources ,not wrought of Him so beware.

Hope I made SOME sense anyway. I realize you do not believe as I do , in heaven or hell, etc. I believe. But maybe you can now understand a little more how I ( and others) believe. Hope this helps with maybe some of the questions.
May He give us more love and light ..
Respectfully...
S-Lou
edit on 20-5-2012 by SeekerLou because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Rather than argue scriptures and translations and denominational (demon-in-nation) interpretations and traditions of men, why not seek the truth within? Be still and know... the kingdom of God is within you.

What if Jesus wanted to teach you Himself? www.hallvworthington.com...





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