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Anders Breivik and "hidden" Freemasons

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 06:05 AM
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At the time of the attacks Breivik was a member of the Lodge of St. Olaf at the Three Columns in Oslo[168] and had displayed photographs of himself in partial Masonic regalia on his Facebook profile.[169][170] In interviews after the attacks, his lodge stated they had only minimal contact with him, and that when made aware of Breivik's membership, Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasons, Ivar A. Skaar issued an edict immediately excluding him from the fraternity based upon the acts he carried out and the values that appear to have motivated them.[171][172] According to the Lodge records, Breivik took part in a total of four meetings between his initiation in February 2007 and his exclusion from the order – one each to receive the first, second and third degree, and one other meeting.[173] The Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasonry points out that while he was a member of the Order his actions show that Breivik is in no way a Mason.[173] His manifesto said that he took three degrees of Freemasonry and commended them as "keepers of cultural heritage" while also criticising it for being “not in any way political.”[174] The Norwegian Order of Freemasons said that during the four and a half years he was a member he only took part in four meetings and held no offices or functions within the Lodge.[175]


The above quote (taken from wikipedia) really has me thinking


I'm not a Mason but from what I know don't you have to work your way through the degrees? Surely he cannot join one day, attend the next for his second degree and then simply attend again for his third? Doesn't he have to do initiations, attend regularly etc. etc.?

Is this a clear lie from The Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasonry?




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:29 AM
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He - Anders Breivikdid did not act alone.
Brainwashed and selected to fire the bullets made by others - which others?
This calculated act was for what - to whom did this act profit?
Red Herring = Masons
Now Masons are bound to defend their Order
Tis an old tactic - Get the herd barking up the wrong tree
Masons being used as a scapegoat
I have no other answer only unresolved questions
History shows that truth lays hidden beneath layers of illusion

edit on 17-4-2012 by artistpoet because: typo



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
I'm not a Mason but from what I know don't you have to work your way through the degrees? Surely he cannot join one day, attend the next for his second degree and then simply attend again for his third? Doesn't he have to do initiations, attend regularly etc. etc.?
You don't have to, but clearly it's better that you do, hence the "Breivik is in no way a Mason" statement.

The way it works in my state you do have to do some memorization work, but there's nothing saying you have to do that practice at lodge if you happen to have a buddy who can work with you to learn it outside of lodge. And you do have to "turn in your work", or present it in the lodge before they will allow you to take the next degree, but I have seen cases where someone will turn in their first degree work and then go through the second degree in the same evening. Likewise turning in their second degree work and getting their Master's degree the same night.

You lose a lot by not really getting the camaraderie of Masonry though if those are the only times you show up.

Traditionally the only people who could attend a full stated/business meeting were Master Masons anyway. About 20 states in the US (last I checked) now allow 1st and 2nd degree members to sit in on the meetings, but those members do not necessarily have a vote, but can at least see how the lodge is run. Norway may not be that way.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


I think it's a mistake to focus on this.

What people should be focused on is the fact that he believes he is one part of a group of people who have been planning this for years.

Why should we give credence to what he says about the "Knights Templar"? Because he is confident, quiet, calm and rational, and he has admitted that the group is small (but powerful).

Those are not the behaviors of a liar and a mentally disturbed person. They exhibit confidence and certainty. There is honesty in what he is saying because a deranged person would not admit that the group was small, if it were a fantasy he would be claiming that there are hundreds or thousands of people who follow the same beliefs.

I do not believe he is exaggerating about the others he has been in communication with.

They didn't know about him, and they cannot find evidence of his "partners" around Europe. But at the same time they accept that he was extremely cautious and paranoid about being caught. He obviously knew how to cover his tracks and stay under the radar. Even when he was caught no one could quite believe that he was who he was. Why is it so hard to believe that he was in communication with others like him or that he was part of a "movement"?

Forget the Masons, this guy managed to do this without anyone suspecting, and when he was caught they couldn't believe it. Even people who knew him couldn't believe it.

He is not a mad man, he is not mentally ill. He is an extremist, and I believe it when he says there are others out there just like him.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil


The above quote (taken from wikipedia) really has me thinking


I'm not a Mason but from what I know don't you have to work your way through the degrees? Surely he cannot join one day, attend the next for his second degree and then simply attend again for his third? Doesn't he have to do initiations, attend regularly etc. etc.?

Is this a clear lie from The Grand Master of the Norwegian Order of Freemasonry?


No, that's the way it generally works. Until you reach the third degree, the only meetings you would generally attend are your own initiation ceremonies for those first three degrees. However, in the United states it is common that you would be taken to other lodges by your coach to see the degrees conferred that you already possessed. So, for example, if you just received your first degree initiation last night, and I was your coach, I would invite you to attend another first degree ceremony with me at another lodge to assist with your learning. But it wouldn't be mandatory.

The third degree makes one a full member in the US, but it worksdifferently in the Swedish Rite, which is used in Norway.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


I think you are on the right track. The Templars are like the Illuminati in that they were disbanded long ago and have not surfaced in their original form since. So either they truly don't exist anymore, or they are a real deal secret society. The problem with claiming the name templar knights, is that there are multitudes of groups using that same name today. Many of them claiming to be from the original group. If this guy was really a part of a true secret society and he was willing to be a martyr for his cause, it does seem strange that he would start blabbing after he got caught. He would have known what was going to happen long before he started. It's things like that, that make me skeptical of his story. But as I said, I think you are going in the correct direction with this.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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I didn't know you could get to the third degree so quickly, I always thought if you reached the third degree then that meant they were through the blue degrees to master level and I thought that took some time, hence I would see a third degree mason as someone who had spent some considerable time, maybe years, in the craft and at lodges.

Thanks JoshNorton and Masonic Light for giving me a better understanding, thanks and star for you both
edit on 17-4-2012 by lifttheveil because: Spelling



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
I didn't know you could get to the third degree so quickly, I always thought if you reached the third degree then that meant they were through the blue degrees to master level and I thought that took some time, hence I would see a third degree mason as someone who had spent some considerable time, maybe years, in the craft and at lodges.
There are some lodges and traditions where it DOES take a long time. I believe I've heard that in some places the minimum time between degrees is one year. But in most of the US, for instance, it can be as short as one month, or even 2 weeks. I have seen guys in my lodge get through all three degrees in 3 or 4 months, though I would say on average it's probably closer to 4-6 months.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
I didn't know you could get to the third degree so quickly, I always thought if you reached the third degree then that meant they were through the blue degrees to master level and I thought that took some time, hence I would see a third degree mason as someone who had spent some considerable time, maybe years, in the craft and at lodges.

Thanks JoshNorton and Masonic Light for giving me a better understanding, thanks and star for you both
edit on 17-4-2012 by lifttheveil because: Spelling


When looking to find out if a mason has spent a lot of time in the lodge or not, a good indication is the past master status. In order to have that, you would have had to go though the progression of titles to get to master of the lodge. In some cases, you can skip a few spots due to small numbers, but in any case, it takes dedication to get tot hat point.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil
I didn't know you could get to the third degree so quickly, I always thought if you reached the third degree then that meant they were through the blue degrees to master level and I thought that took some time, hence I would see a third degree mason as someone who had spent some considerable time, maybe years, in the craft and at lodges.


As Josh mentioned, different Grand Lodges have different rules, but most are pretty much the same. In my jurisdiction, there is minimum one month waiting period between first and second degree, and another month between second and third. One is required to learn the work for each degree, but with determination, it can be done in a month. So it takes a minimum of 2 months in my jurisdiction to become a Master Mason.

There are no waiting periods for the degrees of the York and Scottish Rites. After one becomes a Master Mason, if he decides he wants the additional degrees, all he has to do is find out when they are scheduled to be conferred and apply for them.






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