Anders Breivik and "hidden" Freemasons

reply to post by DRAZIW

Wait? Your comparing the House of the Temple, the HQ of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction to God?

That is just not so as the Scottish Rite holds no authority over the various Grand Lodges around the US or the world. You should really do research on how the Grand Lodges cooperate with each other through mutual recognition. Every GL is sovereign and independent unto itself. To say the SR is the supreme authority over all Freemasonry is absurd and insulting to the various appendant bodies, but none more than insulting to the Blue Lodge.

reply to post by KSigMason


Could you please tell me what is behind the green door?

I keep hearing about it but no one will tell me.

Originally posted by MasterGemini
reply to post by KSigMason

 

Could you please tell me what is behind the green door?

I keep hearing about it but no one will tell me.

Why, Marilyn Chambers, of course, silly!

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

Wait? Your comparing the House of the Temple, the HQ of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction to God?

That is just not so as the Scottish Rite holds no authority over the various Grand Lodges around the US or the world. You should really do research on how the Grand Lodges cooperate with each other through mutual recognition. Every GL is sovereign and independent unto itself. To say the SR is the supreme authority over all Freemasonry is absurd and insulting to the various appendant bodies, but none more than insulting to the Blue Lodge.

I don't know the point you're trying to make here.

Given that Freemason attendance at meetings is entirely "optional" , no one has any authority over anyone anyway, each mason is his own boss. All that order and structure is pure "form".

The only "substance" is who has access to the glittering green jewel behind the locked door.


The masons that have the word, supersede the masons that don't. That's the story that matters.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Given that Freemason attendance at meetings is entirely "optional" , no one has any authority over anyone anyway, each mason is his own boss. All that order and structure is pure "form".

May I please take the liberty of clarifying the 'optional'/'compulsory' part of attending meetings as I understand it...

Firstly, we, as Masons, are charged to obey all summonses.

Before every meeting, I get the following summons:

"Dear Sir and Brother,
By command of the Worshipful Master, you are hereby summoned to attend the regular meeting of your Lodge, in the ------- Masonic Centre, for the performance of your Masonic duties, pleading no excuse save sickness or any other unavoidable impediment to you so doing."

So yes, I must obey it, provided that there is no unavoidable impediment to me doing so. An angry wife might be considered an impediment to me and the family harmony, so if that were the case, then I would be completely justified in not going. In fact, we are told, that Masonry should not interfere negatively with one's family life.

There is nobody policing whether we attend or not. It is left up to every mason to interpret the summons in their own way, and to know in their heart if they are living up to what we have been charged to do in Freemasonry.

The masons that have the word, supersede the masons that don't. That's the story that matters.

I assume you're talking about the lost word.

If so, there's something you don't understand about Freemasonry...

The "Word" is symbolic of looking for something. If there was an actual word that was given to any of us, then Freemasonry would be rather meaningless. As such, nobody is ever given "the word" since it does not exist. It cannot exist, or there would be no point to Freemasonry.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
That's like asking how does GAOTU superscede all the lodges on earth.

I see you have gone further into the realm of absurdity. Thank you for avoiding giving a legitimate response to my question.

Originally posted by Saurus

The "Word" is symbolic of looking for something. If there was an actual word that was given to any of us, then Freemasonry would be rather meaningless. As such, nobody is ever given "the word" since it does not exist. It cannot exist, or there would be no point to Freemasonry.

I agree. The word is just symbolic to some. For others the word exists indeed. How be it that some freemasons are required to believe in god, and yet other freemasons are not?


There are masons that will claim that the belief in a supreme being is a universal requirement to be a Freemason, yet there are lodges that do not require this belief in a supreme being. How is that? Is freemasonry meaningless because some believe and others disbelieve? What is Freemasonry? Do you know?

Whereever there is something, there is also a denier.l

The word exists. Just like Jeremiah 31:33; Job 38:36; Gospel of Thomas #70; etc..narrate..there is a word understood by those who have the word within them.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DRAZIW
That's like asking how does GAOTU superscede all the lodges on earth.

I see you have gone further into the realm of absurdity. Thank you for avoiding giving a legitimate response to my question.

Your question was answered legitimately, but you could not understand the answer!

Originally posted by DRAZIW

I agree. The word is just symbolic to some. For others the word exists indeed.

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

My personal interpretation of "finding the lost word" is my quest to know God. Each Mason has his own understanding.

How be it that some freemasons are required to believe in god, and yet other freemasons are not?

There are masons that will claim that the belief in a supreme being is a universal requirement to be a Freemason, yet there are lodges that do not require this belief in a supreme being. How is that? Is freemasonry meaningless because some believe and others disbelieve?

All regular Masons are required to believe in God. Those that do not are not considered proper Masons and are called irregular. These "Masons" are not permitted to enter our Lodges.

"What is Freemasonry? Do you know?"

Yes, I do.

Freemasonry a source of wisdom. Its Brethren are a source of strength and support. Its rituals teach us to appreciate the beauty in all of God's creation, and it is by such an appreciation of the beauty of God's creation that we start to understand the nature of God. It's morals dictate how to live, so that when we come to die, we realize that we have truly lived.

It's mysteries help us find out who we are, and by inspiring us to study the hidden mysteries of nature and science, it enables us better to understand our Creator.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
Your question was answered legitimately, but you could not understand the answer!

I asked how the House of the Temple has any bearing on non-Scottish Rite Masons or Northern jurisdiction Scottish Rite Masons. Answer the question and stop being purposefully obtuse.

Originally posted by Saurus

Originally posted by DRAZIW

I agree. The word is just symbolic to some. For others the word exists indeed.

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

My personal interpretation of "finding the lost word" is my quest to know God. Each Mason has his own understanding.

That was in the beginning.

And the word became flesh and dwelt among us [John 1:14], so the word is within the flesh. Yet, some people became "lost", and a savior came to save the "lost tribes" [Matthew 15:24], and bring them back to the original word, which they "lost". And as he spoke among men, his spoken word resonated with some who still had the original word in their inward parts [John 10:27], those he called his flock, yet others denied him and even sought to stone him for his false preaching [John 10:31], for they could not believe that they had lost the word, and he had it now. They were carrying out all the ceremonies and the rituals of the old, outwardly in form, but not practicing them in inwardly [Matthew 23:25], they were practicing hypocrisy, deceit, and intentional misleading, [Matthew 23:27], which is their form of "wisdom". Like the woman who spends hours in front the mirror putting on makeup to enhance her "BEAUTY" , so that she may "receive" by the blessings of beauty the gifts fit for the heart of beauty, so is "deception" counted by they as the highest wisdom, to increaseth their storehouse...etc..Yeah..there is a lost word..for sure, without question, it exists, but still yet there are they who would not understand no matter how much explaining is given them.

reply to post by MasterGemini

If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

reply to post by DRAZIW

I was replying to the post where you comapred GAOTU to the House of Temple. Attendance is not mandatory, except for elected officers (at least that is how it is put in Idaho work). Within the Lodge is there is an authority and a hierarchy that is respected (or rather should be).

I'm not sure why you are obsessed with this "mandatory" attendance and "optional" bull crap, but I feel like you're trying to paint us into a corner. It's not going to work as you are not an expert on Masonic Law and are just trying to make a mockery of my fraternity instead of dealing in civil discussion.

Originally posted by KSigMason
I'm not sure why you are obsessed with this "mandatory" attendance and "optional" bull crap, but I feel like you're trying to paint us into a corner.

More to the point, it's still way offtopic. The Grand Lodge of Norway claims Breivik only attended 4 meetings, including the three in which he received degrees. DRAZIW has offered nothing to counter that claim.

Originally posted by KSigMason

reply to post by DRAZIW
I'm not sure why you are obsessed with this "mandatory" attendance and "optional" bull crap, but I feel like you're trying to paint us into a corner. It's not going to work as you are not an expert on Masonic Law and are just trying to make a mockery of my fraternity instead of dealing in civil discussion.

I used the "obligation". I pointed to several official Masonic Lodge websites that use the very wording. No point beating a dead horse. Ye either get it, or ye don't.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by KSigMason
I'm not sure why you are obsessed with this "mandatory" attendance and "optional" bull crap, but I feel like you're trying to paint us into a corner.

More to the point, it's still way offtopic. The Grand Lodge of Norway claims Breivik only attended 4 meetings, including the three in which he received degrees. DRAZIW has offered nothing to counter that claim.

I want to point out, however, that Norway Freemasonry follows Swedish Christian Freemasonry. And Swedish Christian Freemasonry is very particular on mason's attendance and how they get their degrees. At least they claim to be particular. So, the whole Norway thing is a bit difficult to believe.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
I want to point out, however, that Norway Freemasonry follows Swedish Christian Freemasonry. And Swedish Christian Freemasonry is very particular on mason's attendance and how they get their degrees. At least they claim to be particular. So, the whole Norway thing is a bit difficult to believe.

Do you understand that he would have had at most 3 meetings to achieve the Master's degree?

Would you concede that he might have attended the meeting that next met after he'd gotten his Master's degree?

Then why would it be hard to believe that he never went back? Not going to lodge is easy. Far easier than going, in fact.

Originally posted by DRAZIW
I used the "obligation". I pointed to several official Masonic Lodge websites that use the very wording. No point beating a dead horse. Ye either get it, or ye don't.

Which none of were ritual yet Masons were able to cite actual ritual which contradicts everything you assert. It helps if you actually know about a subject you are trying to explain.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by DRAZIW
I want to point out, however, that Norway Freemasonry follows Swedish Christian Freemasonry. And Swedish Christian Freemasonry is very particular on mason's attendance and how they get their degrees. At least they claim to be particular. So, the whole Norway thing is a bit difficult to believe.

Do you understand that he would have had at most 3 meetings to achieve the Master's degree?

You mean at least 3 meetings. Don't you? I understand there are variations in masonry from lodge to lodge. Or, are you saying that a Fellow Craft could not attend the initiation of an Entered Apprentice? Is that a restriction in your Lodge?

Originally posted by DRAZIW
You mean at least 3 meetings. Don't you? I understand there are variations in masonry from lodge to lodge. Or, are you saying that a Fellow Craft could not attend the initiation of an Entered Apprentice? Is that a restriction in your Lodge?

He could, but he's not required to. In fact, I often recommend that someone who gets his EA attend as many EA degrees as he can to help him learn the memorization work prior to turning it in and getting his FC. But some people have mentors who teach them the work, so it's quite possible he never saw any degrees but his own.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by DRAZIW
I used the "obligation". I pointed to several official Masonic Lodge websites that use the very wording. No point beating a dead horse. Ye either get it, or ye don't.

Which none of were ritual yet Masons were able to cite actual ritual which contradicts everything you assert. It helps if you actually know about a subject you are trying to explain.

It also helps to listen to what I did say, and not imagine I was saying something else.