Morals, as most people know them, are a MYTH.

reply to post by boncho


You are so right. I have always lived by my morals, but just recently figured out that is nothing but a game. People are going to do whatever they want UNLESS they can control their ego. I am working on that part. People know right from wrong the instant a new situation occurs. We are conditioned to do whatever gives us the most pleasure. People dont stop to think of each step in the puzzle and tha is where we get into trouble with our lives.

I found it annoying how people complain about other peoples'/countries' cultures, morales or believes, just because they are different to their own.

One example would be complaining that another culture is primitive or even backwards morals wise..

How can you claim the high horse on morals when say western society only attained its level of morals in the last 20-50 years, but condemn the rest of the world because their morals according to western socity is primitive or backwards.

It's like when people look back into history & judge the past on modern morals, this is wrong because the way thing were done a certain times in history were just the way things were morally done or were at, at that particular time/level.

For example the Roman Empire had slaves, by modern morals this idea is deplorable, but that was just how thing were done at that time, & don't forget western society only dropped slavery less than 170 years ago.

The west complains about the morals of certain countries religions morals eg, whipping, stoning etc.

The middle east complains about certain countries morals eg, marriage, adultry, materialism etc.

Who is really justified when the different societies has different levels of morals or beliefs.

This exact unfortunate quandry has lead to far too many wars/genocides/crusades/atrocites/crimes agains humanity etc.

A very sad & pathetic state it is for humanity to enact upon these moral differences, then lamely blame it on the other side.

reply to post by acrux


Beautifully explained. And lets not forget that all countries and societies have something good about them that could be learned by others.

I notice also, there is a breakdown of 'morals' when dealing with unknown cultures sometimes. As in racism. Racism is something that comes from lack of understanding, and when it peaks its ugly head, suddenly it as though people are being referred to as sub-human.

You know what the problem is? people's own morals are dependant on their own personal judgements. Is it ok to cheat because he's an a-hole? Is it ok if he cheats because he's not getting what he wants? Never. Morals should never change regardless of your slant on the sistuation. Right is right and wrong is wrong. If you love someone you can't do that to someone else and if you can then you shouldn't be in the situation you're in.

reply to post by willie9696

Sounds like your woman left you?

There is nothing concrete about 'right and wrong', and likely never will be.

reply to post by acrux


i dont think morals should come from religion, which western and arabic cultures, it does. so do think sometimes it is ok to judge a certain culture for their beliefs if you do so without prejudice.

i agree that morals are subjective but having similar beliefs are what makes a strong society. our beliefs as a society should be those that are for the best for our welfare.

reply to post by boncho


Sorry, but women are liars...

reply to post by boncho


Yes racism is a terrible thing & I have noticed racism is true in every society I have encountered. I live in a multi-cultural society so have seen racism coming & going from many quarters.

Unfortunately even our leaders push racism upon us, for example in Oz we have them politicians telling us about the plague of boat-people coming here, that we must stem the tide, lock the up in manditary detention centres, look how they riot & destroy when they stand up to the way we treat them.

Most of the people coming from appalling situations of war/famine/poverty/disease etc.

Let us not forget that we are causing a lot of this strife by being at war in those countries or supporting the dictatorship of those countries, even supporting the monetary system that keep a lot of those countries broke by making them pay of there GDP in interest to corrupt banking cartels & let our corporations rape the natural resources of many of these countries.

It fall down the old trick of diverting the attention away from the corrupt thing the politician is doing.

It is the old trick of divide & conquer, have people on divided sides of the camp arguing about what should really be a non-existant problem & we stop qustioning them a the real crux of the matters.

The media even thrusts down our throats how primitve/backwards other countries are & openly promotes racial ideals/beliefs as wrong.

www.news.com.au...

What the Indian call centre staff are really told about Australians

Just stating the facts, guys. Australia is known as the dumbest continent . . . so speak slowly" - CALL CENTRE TEACHER

INDIAN call centres are teaching staff Australia is the world's "dumbest continent" where people "drink constantly" and are "quite racist".

Staff taught "how to act Australian" are also told to "speak slowly" to customers on the other end of the phone line because they tend to be technologically "backwards".

Indian-based telephone spruikers and helpline operators are also warned that Australians are "touchy" about their pets.

They are also instructed it's OK to hang up on Australians who use the "preferred term for us" - "brown bastards".

The revelations have caused a stir in the US over cultural stereotyping after they appeared in the reputable news magazine Mother Jones.
One of the magazine's writers, journalist Andrew Marantz, spent weeks undertaking training in India with locals at an organisation called the Delhi Call Centre.

"For three weeks, a culture trainer will teach us conversational skills, Australian pop culture, and the terms of the mobile phone contracts we'll be peddling," he says. "Our first job at DCC will be to interrupt Australians at dinner and ask them to switch phone providers."

Marantz told The Sunday Mail he undertook the investigation last year, when there was some publicity about Indian students in Australia facing violent attacks.

The training program taught employees about conversational skills and Australian pop culture in the hope that they would build a rapport with the person they were trying to sell to.

In "dissecting" the Australian psyche in 20 minutes, the teacher told the class, "Just stating the facts, guys. Australia is known as the dumbest continent. Literally, college was unknown there until recently, so speak slowly".

"Technologically speaking, they're somewhat backward, as well. The average person's mobile would be no better than, say, a Nokia 3110 classic."

That revelation "drew scoffs from around the room".

"Australians drink constantly," the teacher warned. "If you call on a Friday night, they'll be smashed - every time.

"Oh, and don't attempt to make small talk with them about their pets, OK? They can be quite touchy about animals."

When one call centre student asked what kind of people lived in Australia, the teacher replied: "Let's admit: they are quite racist. They do not like Indians."

She continued: "Their preferred term for us is . . . 'brown bastards'."

This just going to promote racism/hatred between Australia & India by stereo-typing both races.

Australian's will now say "brown-bastard', Indians will say "dumb drunk yob"

This is just one example the media deliberately promoting racism.

What about how the media tells us about the crime always being committed by a certain race or the backward ways of another country or religious extremist etc.

Is this part of an Elitist plan, that by feeding us bullsh1t through their controlled media to divide & conquer, they can keep us squabbling amongst ourselves, then usher in the NWO, by saying this is the solution to the world problems, that they actually implement under our very nose, because we were too stupid to even see it coming because we swollowed their bullsh1t.

But when it come down to it might be just be human nature to fear the unknown.

Because everyones a little bit racist.

edit on 24-7-2011 by acrux because: (no reason given)

without morals, everything is permissible. simple as that. what are you going to say? "you can't do that, its "wrong" you can't condemn anything or anyone without morals.

i've met quite a few people who think morals don't exist, but none of them live like it. a justice system would not exist if people had no sense of right versus wrong.

people take morals for granted. they're not laws of operation that people follow, and they are broken, but everyone starts off with a sense of right and wrong. there are cultural relatives involved, but there are also universal morals that everyone feels. people can become desensitized, but there are absolutes.

I simply believe in personal integrity. No set list of rules - - except "cause no harm".

Of course "cause no harm" is subjective - - as is personal integrity.

I personally am so sick of the word Moral - - - which seems to have become the mantra for the Right Wing ever since Bush took office.

Nice post!

"Morality is a bunch of humbug that makes people feel good about themselves at night. "

You know, just as many people feel bad as people can feel good about morals.

I am personally scarred by the morals put into my mind by my parents. Furthermore, I kept growing in my cynicism and closed myself off in many ways. I am now on a quest to break free of these morals programmed into my mind and to break these walls I closed myself in from bad experiences. I've already come a way with this and have been successful, but it really is a never ending process as most of us keep building such walls constantly, we are ever changing. I see programming morals into children as being one of the worst things we can do to a young mind. We should never feel bad about doing anything, but we should obviously use logic to act. Just because someone doesn't have morals certainly does not mean that they would be out killing people or other things. but then again I almost doubt that there is anyone completely free of morals.

Well of course. Morals and Ethics are dictated by what society deems as appropriate. As society changes so do our morals, naturally. Of course, culture comes into play as well.

For example, One culture may think it is morally okay to eat meat. Others don't.

Yeah, Morals are a Myth and they are all based soley on what society deems as appropriate.... And we follow these fictitious morals in a never ending effort to fit in... Be accepted by society

reply to post by Bob Sholtz

without morals, everything is permissible. simple as that. what are you going to say? "you can't do that, its "wrong" you can't condemn anything or anyone without morals.

Not true, you can condemn it with simple reasoning. The trick is encouraging people to do things that are positive for themselves and the community. I don't see why guilt has to be the number 1 factor in decision making.

i've met quite a few people who think morals don't exist, but none of them live like it. a justice system would not exist if people had no sense of right versus wrong.

This goes back to what another poster mentioned, of course, morals exist in their definition. I am speaking more so how they are perceived by many.

Interesting nobody has mentioned empathy, the ability to imagine how someone else feels, which to me seems to be a good basis for "morals". If you can feel how your actions affect others and can relate to them it's unlikely you would do things to harm them.

Then there's also the concept of having a conscience ! If we didn't have that then it really would be Law of the jungle time.

Originally posted by Hopeforeveryone
Interesting nobody has mentioned empathy, the ability to imagine how someone else feels, which to me seems to be a good basis for "morals". If you can feel how your actions affect others and can relate to them it's unlikely you would do things to harm them.

Then there's also the concept of having a conscience ! If we didn't have that then it really would be Law of the jungle time.

Empathy is a useless tool when people are lying. People lie about their emotions, and also, some people are naturally sensitive to just about everything.

If you are too empathetic, I could see it being self destructive.

reply to post by boncho

Therefore, I believe "morals" as they are described in modern society, are nothing more than a political tool used for social engineering.

I don't think your premises logically lead to this conclusion.

Human beings are a social species and as such we've evolved to thrive better in groups. This includes a measure of naturally occurring empathy that only sociopaths lack. Empathy, I believe, forms the backbone of our natural moral framework though how closely it correlates with our broader societal morals differs between cultures. It's important to note that empathy doesn't always trump selfishness or any other less altruistic choice. We're still capable of being greedy, selfish and vengeful. I would recommend doing some research into some other social species and altruistic behavior in nature. There are some surprisingly moral behaviors that most people would put beyond the purview of other animals.

I also suggest looking into the work of Sam Harris in regards to morality. He's got some interesting ideas on how human well-being (measured through health among other things) could be a great guide towards making better moral choices and forming better moral systems.

I do agree that morals in the sense most people think of them do not exist. Much like people's RIGHTS do not actually exist. They are mostly abstract concepts. There is a distinction to be made between our natural empathy driven morality and the moral systems we set up on a personal and, more so, a societal level.

reply to post by Hopeforeveryone
There are people born everyday who have no sense of empathy and no conscience. It is not inherent in all humans, or all creatures for that matter.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
there are also universal morals that everyone feels. people can become desensitized, but there are absolutes.

Merely animal survival instincts, which combined with our 'intelligence' and 'self-awareness', is where our moral sense is derived imo. All creatures share these absolutes, unfortunately humans make a mess of them. Actions speak louder than words... the history of mankind speaks for itself. Are we morally-driven creatures? I don't think so. We seek survival and pleasure, among other instincts (social status for example). That's about it. It's an illusion really, and I'm glad we have it, I guess.

Originally posted by boncho
I believe morality breeds out of a search for self-image, breaking down insecurities.... As opposed to some ruling law inside of people.

...imo, morality is a reflection of one's self-image, which is why morality is so diverse...

Originally posted by boncho
I believe self-preservation is the number one thing that shapes us as human beings.

...its initially the #1 thing - but - its status can be beaten out of you and/or reprogrammed...

Originally posted by boncho
Morality is a bunch of humbug that makes people feel good about themselves at night.

...so, you think people with morals feel crappy about themselves during the day?...

Originally posted by boncho
Someone said to me "Without morals people would just kill each other." I said, "I don't have morals, and I don't plan on killing anyone."

...to that someone, i'd say - its very common for people who believe they have good morals to kill others... whether or not society judges that person's morals as good, bad or inbetween usually depends upon the circumstances of the killing...

...and to your response, boncho, i say - lots of folks never plan on killing anyone but sheet happens and, when it does, they could get killed cuz they didnt have a plan...

Originally posted by boncho
our decisions are made with human intellect.

...for that to be viable, you have to first prove you're a human - and then - you have to prove that your humanism is due to 100% Earth genetics - because - there are other species of humans... (i'm kidding, sorta kinda)...

...but seriously - my real response to your statement is "not always"... sometimes an Earth human's decision is reptilian to the core - often called primal instinct, which a lot of folks believe is just a human thang - but - they're wrong and i'm right cuz my morals are impeccable and their morals suck (thats a joke)...

Originally posted by boncho
Something happens, you react, you have a choice if this is going to cause positive or negative consequences for you and the people you are interacting with.

Simple.

...well, there ya go - you do have a plan... its not a very good one, imo, cuz making a choice is time consuming and sometimes you dont have time to consider future aspects...

Originally posted by boncho
No matter how "good" of a person someone believes they are, everyone is open to be corrupted.

...not everyone... the profoundly retarded are incapable of forming morals or understanding anyone else's - therefore, they are incorruptable...

Originally posted by boncho
Everyone is susceptible to human emotions that negate the "moral" feeling you have in the pit of your stomach when you are doing something you perceive as wrong.

...again, not everyone is capable of "that feeling"... there are mental conditions that prevent the morality seed from ever being planted...

Originally posted by boncho
If someone were to have a deep-set of morals, I believe they would not be able to go against these at anytime for any reason whatsoever. Should they, and the meaning is lost.

...gosh, thats kinda hard core... its cool if you wanna believe that about yourself but it could be evidence of a malicious set of morals if you apply it to anyone else...

Originally posted by boncho
Therefore, I believe "morals" as they are described in modern society, are nothing more than a political tool used for social engineering.

...using the key words "as they are described in modern society" - i could agree that morals are often used as a tool to subjugate but i cant agree that its a modern concept...

Originally posted by boncho
And now I leave you with a joke:

...a dig at male intellect always makes a good joke...

...heres another: ...long ago, when the vatican was rewriting the jew's bible and creating the new testatment, the pope rushed into the dungeon the clerks were forced to work in and shouted, "no, no, no! its not celibate! its celibrate!"...

...now for the rest of the story: the clerks killed that pope but not because they were asexual but because they were the first protestants...

...if that offends anyone - o'well, check your morals...

reply to post by boncho


There's a balance in most things i guess - having no empathy is probably just as, if not more dangerous than having excessive empathy.

Morality is fairly relative though - most people wouldn't eat other humans but stick them in the right situation and they probably would.