Morals, as most people know them, are a MYTH.

Morals = Not Real

This thread is an opinion editorial and should be noted when reading it. Also, it is backed mostly by anecdotal evidence.

So I had a discussion with a woman the other day and she was talking about her morals. The ones that would bar her from cheating on people she was in a relationship with. I asked her, "Does this apply to your friends as well?" As in: Do you expect your friends to have the same morals. She was quite clear she did.

I asked, "So none of your friends have cheated on their boyfriends before" and she said, "Well, yeah... but..."

The instance that she told me about was where one of her friends was dating a guy who was an "&%$@#". As she put it, when the opportunity arose, she encouraged her friend to cheat on the guy. And after further digging, it seems when people are &%$@#'s the lines of morality change and are open up for interpretation.

This is not an isolated case. I cannot recall word for word every case of this I have ever heard in my life, but it is a reoccurring theme.

I believe morality breeds out of a search for self-image, breaking down insecurities.... As opposed to some ruling law inside of people. I believe self-preservation is the number one thing that shapes us as human beings. Morality is a bunch of humbug that makes people feel good about themselves at night.

Someone said to me "Without morals people would just kill each other." I said, "I don't have morals, and I don't plan on killing anyone."

The idea that morality or religion or good intentions or anything else is making us good people is a load of poppycock. The reason I saw this, is because our decisions are made with human intellect. Something happens, you react, you have a choice if this is going to cause positive or negative consequences for you and the people you are interacting with.

Simple.

No matter how "good" of a person someone believes they are, everyone is open to be corrupted. Everyone is susceptible to human emotions that negate the "moral" feeling you have in the pit of your stomach when you are doing something you perceive as wrong.

If someone were to have a deep-set of morals, I believe they would not be able to go against these at anytime for any reason whatsoever. Should they, and the meaning is lost.

Therefore, I believe "morals" as they are described in modern society, are nothing more than a political tool used for social engineering.







Six things about morality

Morals and the Iraq war.

And now I leave you with a joke:

A priest was driving along and saw nun on the side of the road. He stopped and offered her a lift which she accepted. She got in and crossed her legs, forcing the habit to open and reveal a leg. The priest looks and nearly has an accident, and after changing gear lets his hand slide up her leg.

She immediately says, "Father, remember Psalm 129".

The priest says sorry and removes his hand but is unable to remove his eyes from her leg. Further on when he changes gear and has ogled at her leg for the zillionth time he lets the hand slide up the leg again.

The Nun once again says, "Father remember Psalm 129".

Arriving at the convent the nun gets out and the priest goes on his way. Once he arrives at his church he rushes to the bible and looks up Psalm 129 and it said, "GO FORTH AND SEEK, FURTHER UP YOU WILL FIND GLORY"
Moral of the Story: Know your job inside and out or you may miss a great opportunity.

Moral of the story jokes.

reply to post by boncho


That is what people without them always try to say.
I think that is a myth.

good topic.

i try and carry myself a certain way, as i get older i learn things and try to be the best person i can, not for karma but to know that i handled the situation or scenario the best way i could, regardless if i get noticed.

all we have are our beliefs. i would steal bread if i were hungry, but i dont steal. i guess we all have our standards.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by boncho

 

That is what people without them always try to say.
I think that is a myth.

The simple fact of not "having them" is just not believing that you governed by some magical feeling inside of you.

To what do you say to the people that "have them" but break them?

I don't think that morals are a myth insomuch as they do not exist eg. unicorns. I think they are more of an endangered species. I believe that there is close to nobody that can maintain a high moral position in all circumstances, including when the offending party is a @#$%&. That being said, I think it would be tragic if we were to abandon all attempts at morality in the fears that we cannot succeed in maintaining a certain standard of morality.

reply to post by vjr1113

all we have are our beliefs. i would steal bread if i were hungry, but i dont steal. i guess we all have our standards.

Great post. Yes, beliefs are important. And a much more relevant description to that which governs our actions.

As for stealing, I can't stand people who steal. Yet, at the same time, I think there is onus on people to not be tricked by swindlers and fraudsters.

I do not feel sorry for people that lost their house because they invested in a scheme offering to pay out 10% monthly, when the average payout for an investment is 3% annually.

No matter how "good" of a person someone believes they are, everyone is open to be corrupted. Everyone is susceptible to human emotions that negate the "moral" feeling you have in the pit of your stomach when you are doing something you perceive as wrong.

I must disagree, not everyone is open to corruption, but i guess it really depends on what type of corruption. I can gladly say that i am not completely ruled by my emotions. Only when it comes to my significant other and my folks.

Morals are there, i see them as just a generic set of rules for each individual to define as they will, for example "Be kind to your fellow man" or something along those lines. There are things you tell yourself you just don't do. I think there is the generic set that would apply to everyone, and the more defined personal morals. Like "I will never hit a woman"

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by boncho

 

That is what people without them always try to say.
I think that is a myth.

The simple fact of not "having them" is just not believing that you governed by some magical feeling inside of you.

To what do you say to the people that "have them" but break them?

I call them bad. I understand it is relative but there are commonalities that make us human.
The understanding and empathy level varies from person to person. Morals to me is treating others how you yourself desire to be treated. It is understanding and taking part as a participant in humanity. There are those who will always be outsiders and not participating members because they have not the morals or empathy to understand implications of their actions, words and even feelings. For example you can't eat people. You cannot see their wife decide you like her and take her. There are no rules but you know you would not like it and so you refrain. You have morals. An understanding of the human dilemma.

reply to post by boncho

I think there is onus on people to not be tricked by swindlers and fraudsters.

Imagine most tricksters, frauds and charlatans believe the onus is on the innocent victim as well.

I guess i also forgot that there are people out there that have no morals at all, people who kill and enjoy it, dictators, all the power hungry people.

But once again, they're just satisfying their ego. And if the ego was not there, then we would not have this.

reply to post by newcovenant

For example you can't eat people. You cannot see their wife decide you like her and take her. There are no rules but you know you would not like it and so you refrain. You have morals. An understanding of the human dilemma.

I like this. And I would neither eat people or go after someone else's wife. I do not see this as governed by personal morality though. Perhaps that is how it is observed generally?

I see this as self preservation and me having personal standards that I expect people around me to follow as well. These are things that cause complications and ruin stability in your life. (Okay, I am talking about the wife thing, not eating people)

A relationship bred out of adultery is not a stable one, nor could it ever be, because it would leave doubt in the minds of both participants. It is not to say it's impossible to have a good relationship from that starting point, but in my opinion, highly unlikely.

reply to post by boncho
I have morals that I has stuck to the point where it has cost me personally.

I will not elaborate the details, just to say that it has cost me a relationship, friends & even jobs.

I would just like to enquire as to whether you would include principles as morals or something else depending on circumstances of individual situations.

Originally posted by AzureSky
I guess i also forgot that there are people out there that have no morals at all, people who kill and enjoy it, dictators, all the power hungry people.

But once again, they're just satisfying their ego. And if the ego was not there, then we would not have this.

Yes, but soldiers kill people too, does that mean they have no morals?

Then there are the following, criminals being incarcerated for long periods of time, put to death, beaten, etc. Which is encouraged by some (And of course with good reason sometimes).

But these things are happening to people, and it's okay, because they did __________. So a dictator or power hungry people, are no different than the girl who thought it was okay to cheat because her boyfriend was an &%@#!.

reply to post by boncho
I will agree that morals are an abstract function.
300 years ago, it was appropriate to burn/drown witches.
200 years ago, it was morally acceptable to own slaves.

Morals are a reflection, a snapshot of a culture at that given moment. As a species, I can only hope that morals evolve as much as we have the potential to do.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by boncho

 

I think there is onus on people to not be tricked by swindlers and fraudsters.

Imagine most tricksters, frauds and charlatans believe the onus is on the innocent victim as well.

Well, if people go through life without educating themselves, it becomes a problem. It is something that is going to happen. You will never go out and catch every single person scamming someone. So my point, is that it is much more effective to teach people to be critical in their thinking so it doesn't happen to them.

There is a sucker born every minute...

reply to post by acrux


i think that's called honor.
if you can sacrifice so much for a good reason, then good for you, dont look back.

Originally posted by acrux
reply to post by boncho

 

I have morals that I has stuck to the point where it has cost me personally.

I will not elaborate the details, just to say that it has cost me a relationship, friends & even jobs.

I would just like to enquire as to whether you would include principles as morals or something else depending on circumstances of individual situations.

Good question. To which I do not have the answer. They can definitely be considered the same thing. My question, is have you ever broken them in times of anger, rage, jealousy, etc?

Or do you have other traits that would be considered immoral by some, but not just you?

reply to post by boncho


I think you may have morals confused with religion or law etc.

The idea that morality or religion or good intentions or anything else is making us good people is a load of poppycock.

While the word "morals" has many definitions none of them really apply to religion specifically,

mor·al noun /ˈmôrəl/ /ˈmär-/ morals, plural
A lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience - the moral of this story was that one must see the beauty in what one has
A person's standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is and is not acceptable for them to do -
the corruption of public morals Standards of behavior that are considered good or acceptable - they believe addicts have no morals and cannot be trusted

to say that morals are not real doesn't quite seem logical. It sounds like your an Atheist by your post which I have no problem with but to say religion is the creator of morals, which is what I think you were essentially saying, isn't very accurate.

I'm not a very religious person myself more Deist I guess, personally I think people both religious and atheist seem to take jabs at each other which is not needed, people should just be concerned with themselves not others beliefs. And to say "oh they started it" is bad for both sides. We're not five year old.

But your post was interesting none the less, if I remember my history class right you should read about Immanuel Kant who was around during the Enlightenment, I may be wrong in wording this but I think it was somewhere along the line of an actual formula he created for determining morality. Pretty interesting, but if you ask me everyone has morals, and like you said those morals can be compromised situationally(made up word), but in general people have morals. Even you, i'm sure there are things you will and wont do, you wont have sex with a tree or animal will you? That would be a moral issue in a way, kind of an extreme case but probably could pass as one. Time for work, my morals tell me I have to go, as well as my bank account. Cya

reply to post by JABERWOCKYSUPERFLY

to say that morals are not real doesn't quite seem logical. It sounds like your an Atheist by your post which I have no problem with but to say religion is the creator of morals, which is what I think you were essentially saying, isn't very accurate.

Ah, good point. I was meaning more the perception of morals by common people. When I ask people, "what are morals", and how they answer.

But you have brought up a great point.

Agreed. People think we are born with a sense of right and wrong, and I disagree. We are taught these beliefs by whatever culture we belong to. A lot of it has to do with animal instinct and urges we are still trying to come to terms with. Good thread.