Circumcision campaign in Africa reduces HIV infections 76%, study finds

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


You know damn well that breastfeeding is nature's way to feed a baby. Cutting the skin from around their penises is not natural. Apples to oranges dude. Your argument is null and void.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh

It is biologically impossible for a newborn's brain to remember the circumcision, even sub-consciously.

Quit playing psychologist.

Is that you you deal with your mutilation? By telling yourself these things? by telling others?

With your logic, the most heinous crimes could be committed and so long as the victim doesn't remember, it is somehow 'okay'. If the parents of the person are the ones abusing them, all the better.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Key phrase is "as a part of" Although i doubt a religion decayed mind is capable of seeing the forest beyond the magical transdementional tree.

It really is crazy how deluded the religious in america are becoming.. circle jerking in their big churches trying to dig enough holes so the hole congregation can be underground and sedated before the inevitible collapse of their pitifull fantasys happens.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I am going to defend children's rights from having a nipple of a woman's breast forcefully inserted into their mouth.

It is sexual assault.

It can wait until it's old enough to make a reasonable choice if it wants a breast in its mouth or not.

WTF? LOL that is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever read.
Babies gravitate towards the tit themselves. The mother never "forces" a child to breast feed.
The child will cry till it gets what it wants. It's a natural "phenomenon" if you may. Babies are programmed this way.

Totally irrelevant to the OP's topic.

It seems that you just answered both perspectives. He was illustrating absurdity with absurdity. You noticed this and responded with a logical answer. With circumcision, the logical answer is this:

The fetus needs this flap of skin to protect its development. The foreskin is fused around the head as the reproductive organ develops. After birth, the skin is no longer needed and causes more harm than good when present.

Circumcision was used by God as an object lesson to man. Sin must be removed (Circumcised / cut off) from the heart of man in the same manner. The potential for harm comes from the ego (Self-pride) of man, thinking himself to be higher in wisdom and understanding than God. Circumcision is the perfect object lesson here. Man would rather not give up either the self (ego) or the foreskin. Giving up either is painful. In the end, it is what is beneficial to more than just himself. Altruism. love and kindness to others requires us to give up our pride. Argue with this all you want. God was wise in this lesson to us and justified in removing what can only harm us in the end.

This is yet another evidence for faith that the designer made us and the world as an object lesson to develop our sentience by living the story He wrote.

Confucius: "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." Life is a story we live in. We don't just hear it or see it. We live it. All of nature proclaims His glory.

Originally posted by InnerTruths

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I am going to defend children's rights from having a nipple of a woman's breast forcefully inserted into their mouth.

It is sexual assault.

It can wait until it's old enough to make a reasonable choice if it wants a breast in its mouth or not.

WTF? LOL that is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever read.
Babies gravitate towards the tit themselves. The mother never "forces" a child to breast feed.
The child will cry till it gets what it wants. It's a natural "phenomenon" if you may. Babies are programmed this way.

Totally irrelevant to the OP's topic.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


Oh joy! Lets cut off a part of our sons genitalia to protect them! This is genital mutilation no matter what.

Preach condoms(m/f), marriage, and monogamy.-not mutilation.

We hear so much from women's groups about genital mutilation in African women; then you go and support cutting off a part a males penis? Really?

What if cutting of labia reduced the risk of a disease? Would you start supporting genital mutilation of infants that have no say?

reply to post by adraves

Oh joy! Lets cut off a part of our sons genitalia to protect them! This is genital mutilation no matter what.

The foreskin is designed to protect the fetus from excrement in the womb and chafing from friction. After birth, studies have show a greater health benefit to the male as he ages by having the foreskin cut. Women benefit too as they are constantly in danger of yeast infections. A circumcised partner is much less likely to give infections to the female. The list goes on and on. The risks are greater than the rewards. Uncircumcised men suffer many and varied difficulties over a lifetime when this procedure is not done.

For female mutilation, God did not command this. You will need to consult men on this problem. There is no good reason for it other than ignorance.

Circumcision was part of the law. The law was our guardian in the early days of man:

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

After Christ came, the veil was torn. This means that we are able to see why the law was originally in place and can now look beyond the veil into the promise of what God was preparing us for in the first place. Circumcision is not something that anyone needs to worry about at this point in time. Either way, choose what is best for you.

Galatians 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

The law cannot and could not save you. Only faith in God and love for your fellow man can save you from creating your own hell in existence. Heaven is seeking God for leadership and guidance through the work of Jesus on earth. He is our example. "You must be born again." It's not an option. You can carry your sin into eternity or leave it at the cross by accepting the gift of God in faith. Forgiveness comes from putting yourself in Christ.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
reply to post by adraves

 

The foreskin is designed to protect the fetus from excrement in the womb and chafing from friction. After birth, studies have show a greater health benefit to the male as he ages by having the foreskin cut. Women benefit too as they are constantly in danger of yeast infections. A circumcised partner is much less likely to give infections to the female. The list goes on and on. The risks are greater than the rewards. Uncircumcised men suffer many and varied difficulties over a lifetime when this procedure is not done...

Okay this is a good response. I am not religious, so the rest was just static. God commanding anything does not mean anything to me. I want proof. I want facts. If we get there, then I feel we can give our male children the decision/the choice to do as they will with their penis. Anywho....

What excrement is there in the womb? There shouldn't be any from the baby or the mother for that matter, or there is a problem. Why would penile friction matter in the womb? They are floating in water. They are in a fetus position. There penis is as far away from the mother as it could get.

As for yeast infections, and women being in danger. Yes, they are. Men should be taught how disgusting and infection prone lady parts are. Vaginas are a breeding ground for the next plague, and a breeding ground for disease. Maybe we should mutilate them like we do to men to make the playing field even!

I once gave oral sex to a girl I was dating. She gave me tonsillitis that required my tonsils removed. Why was it her fault? Well it turns out she had a bad bacterial infection down yonder. I had never had issues before that. As I said-vaginas are dangerous. Maybe we should start mutilating them like the penis and see if it helps. In the mean time be careful men! They will infect you!

PS~I know I had a lot of sarcasm in this post, but there were no false statements. .

reply to post by adraves

What excrement is there in the womb? There shouldn't be any from the baby or the mother for that matter, or there is a problem.

I just realized I have NO idea what happens to baby poo in the womb. Is there like an extra hose or something that comes out of the babby?

reply to post by adraves

What excrement is there in the womb? There shouldn't be any from the baby or the mother for that matter, or there is a problem. Why would penile friction matter in the womb? They are floating in water. They are in a fetus position. There penis is as far away from the mother as it could get.

Many studies have shown the necessity for the foreskin before birth. There are times that the fetus accumulates a mass of greenish feces called meconium. The foreskin is sealed until shortly after birth when it is peeled back by the Dr. It is a protective seal in the womb for the glands. After birth, the foreskin can be cut away to save countless problems in life. Many people choose not to be circumcised. It is their choice according to the verses I quoted in Galatians. As I said, the law was only a guardian for man until our sentience reached a point that we realize love for one another. The Bible is not wrong on the law. The law was perfect and fully fulfilled by Jesus. He released us from bondage to the law, but not from observing the demands of its purpose.

Circumcision in the Bible was a symbol for cutting away the pride from the heart. That's the reason we are born with the foreskin. Pride is necessary at first to show us evil.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I recently read a story about a doctor in Germany who was using the foreskins from circumcisions to make eyelids for babies born without eyelids. But the authorities had to put a stop to it because they were all turning out cock-eyed.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


It is one thing to say a foreskin is required before birth, and a completely different thing to say it must be removed after birth. It had a function. It may still have an important function as an adult. (we also have gills and tails in the womb. Obviously what happens in the womb cannot be related to adult life. )

I will state this again. I am not religious, forgive me. I will need to see proof that taking away the choice from an infant male, about HIS body, is so important/crucial, that he should have it done upon birth and against his knowledge.

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
I absolutely LOVE my circumcision!! I could not imagine going in for that type of surgery and i am glad that it happened at a time that i cant remember at all. I do believe that it cuts (no pun intended) diseases down dramatically. I am a male, i am a man and i have a penis. This is just my opinion.

I am not sure of the T&C's on this subject so i will not elaborate further.

Could your avatar be an accurate depiction LoL

And thanks for the links in that other thread they were good stuff.

When you live in an area where the men refuse to act in their best interests or the best interests of their family because they'd literally frack themselves to death rather than wear a condom....

Then yeah, I'm sure circumcision reduces STDs. Woo Hoo.

Here is this argument rapped up in a less nice package:

We can't get these guys to stop beating their girlfriends and wives into unprotected sex, and they refuse to use condoms, and they'll screw babies because they think it'll cure HIV.... so to reduce their risk of death, we thought we'd circ'em.

ARGH.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
A circumcised partner is much less likely to give infections to the female. The list goes on and on. The risks are greater than the rewards. Uncircumcised men suffer many and varied difficulties over a lifetime when this procedure is not done.

And likewise a woman can infect a man, circumcised or not.

And what, exactly, are all these "many and varied problems" we're supposed to suffer from?

To date, the only problem I have ever had was a Chlamidia infection from an ex because she was shagging around, which would have happened if I was circumcised or not.

Aside from that, my dong is clean and functioning more than adequately.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd
God

Y A W N...

God can kiss my hairy white arse. He doesn't exist anyway...

So because it is written in a book based on stories told thousands of years ago by illiterate goat-herders, then you do it? What if the Bible said stick a carrot up your arse every third Sunday, or that you should hit your wife if she disobeys you. Oh, hang on...it does say that one..... I assume you beat your wife?

It seems to me that all the pro-circumcision lot are generally bible thumpers and quite often American. I wonder if it has something to do with the American fascination with Judaism/Israel?

Do you want to know why the women you;ve been with "prefer a circumcised penis"? Because they have been conditioned too. Women in the UK, for example, would be mighty surprised to find a man with a circumcised willy, but wouldn't reject you for it.

Tell you what though, you're missing out, that's for sure! A good bulk of penile nerve endings are located in the foreskin. I've heard circumcised people claim sex is better, but how the hell can you know as you have NO POINT OF REFERENCE. It's like me claiming having a willy is better than having a vagina... How would I know?

This "study" is obviously pure nonsense.

Furthermore, I would like to thank the OP for reminding me why I hate Judeo-Christianity (there are many reasons; this is one of them).

reply to post by stumason


There are a lot of good points in your post I didn't touch on. Will religious people read it, no. We can hope

Regardless of the articles whereabouts, we know that the foreskin has a huge concentration of nerve endings (do your own research sorry). So should we cut it off? That seems wrong without consent.

PS~It really is an American(USA) thing. We have the highest percentage of circumcisions in the industrialized world.

Originally posted by adraves
reply to post by SuperiorEd

 

It is one thing to say a foreskin is required before birth, and a completely different thing to say it must be removed after birth. It had a function. It may still have an important function as an adult. (we also have gills and tails in the womb. Obviously what happens in the womb cannot be related to adult life. )

I will state this again. I am not religious, forgive me. I will need to see proof that taking away the choice from an infant male, about HIS body, is so important/crucial, that he should have it done upon birth and against his knowledge.

edit on 31-8-2011 by adraves because: (no reason given)

I thought I quoted Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

When the law was the guardian of man, circumcision was vital for the health of all involved. These people did not bathe every day. They were nomadic herdsman living in a wilderness. There was not soap. The law was a guardian and symbolic of what they represented. Circumcision was the symbol for cutting away pride.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Originally posted by SuperiorEd

It seems that you just answered both perspectives. He was illustrating absurdity with absurdity. You noticed this and responded with a logical answer. With circumcision, the logical answer is this:

The fetus needs this flap of skin to protect its development. The foreskin is fused around the head as the reproductive organ develops. After birth, the skin is no longer needed and causes more harm than good when present.

Circumcision was used by God as an object lesson to man. Sin must be removed (Circumcised / cut off) from the heart of man in the same manner. The potential for harm comes from the ego (Self-pride) of man, thinking himself to be higher in wisdom and understanding than God. Circumcision is the perfect object lesson here. Man would rather not give up either the self (ego) or the foreskin. Giving up either is painful. In the end, it is what is beneficial to more than just himself. Altruism. love and kindness to others requires us to give up our pride. Argue with this all you want. God was wise in this lesson to us and justified in removing what can only harm us in the end.

This is yet another evidence for faith that the designer made us and the world as an object lesson to develop our sentience by living the story He wrote.

Confucius: "I hear and I forget. I see and I learn. I do and I understand." Life is a story we live in. We don't just hear it or see it. We live it. All of nature proclaims His glory.

Originally posted by InnerTruths

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

I am going to defend children's rights from having a nipple of a woman's breast forcefully inserted into their mouth.

It is sexual assault.

It can wait until it's old enough to make a reasonable choice if it wants a breast in its mouth or not.

WTF? LOL that is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever read.
Babies gravitate towards the tit themselves. The mother never "forces" a child to breast feed.
The child will cry till it gets what it wants. It's a natural "phenomenon" if you may. Babies are programmed this way.

Totally irrelevant to the OP's topic.

Another reason to categorically reject Jesus: he wants infant boys to have their penises sliced open. SuperiorEd, you should call the big guy yourself and ask him if he needs a PR campaign. I think you'd do really, really great.

reply to post by SuperiorEd


I do not know why I have to keep asking you not reply in religious context. I do not care about your faith or religion.

I want to see scientific proof that we need this done to our children without their consent. I do not want religious verses quoted at me. That my friend, is not proof. It is only faith, and I have no faith in the writings of men 2000+ years ago on this subject.